Doc

I have to admit that I have zero interest in ever hunting those skinny little critters, but I also have to admit to damn little knowledge of dove hunting. So, I'm about to ask an off-topic dumb question displaying my complete ignorance of dove hunting. Is this the kind of thing that you hunt like pheasants by walking through a field and flushing them, or do you sit in a blind and wait for a bunch of them to fly by. I know, it's a dumb question, but I have had zero exposure to hunting doves and hope that someone will indulge this one small (off topic) question for my enlightenment.

In other words, you have no energy data to offer either. What a batch of nonsensical double talk. Energy is not the whole story, but it is the major factor when assessing effectiveness of any firearm. And to try to conduct a discussion without that primary piece of information, is just an admission that you really don't know what you are talking about.

I don't know how I would feel about someone hunting with hounds on the night before in an area that I was going to try to deer hunt the next day. I think I would be against it. Personally, I try to minimize my own intrusions into a bucks stomping grounds, and do all I can to make him think he's got the whole area to himself. Is that necessary? ..... I don't know. It is just one of those things that seems to make some sense given the mindset of adult bucks. I'm sure a guy could come to my house with a copy of this study, and I still would refuse permission for him to run his hounds through a sanctuary that I had been so fussy about avoiding myself.

And so you people are trying to tell me that you can have a discussion about killing capabilities without including the most important aspect ..... terminal energy. Well, look at all the time and paper the reloading books wasted on charting all of that for each load. You cannot have a serious discussion of killing capabilities of any gun without including energy. That really isn't even arguable. And yet it is a feature of these air guns that no one has even brought up here. I'm not saying that the discussion is over once terminal energy has been established, but without that data, the discussion hasn't even seriously begun.

I was talking to the theater owner in Canandaigua, and he said he was getting a lot of negative comments from customers about the graphic nature of The Revenant. Apparently there were some scenes that were a bit too much for them to handle....lol.

I would guess this would wind up depending on whether the deer has had a history with deer-chasing dogs (or possibly even coyotes). I'm sure they soon realize that a pack of dogs (or coyotes) can be a relentless pursuit that they have to take seriously. I have seen deer that have encountered dogs Sometimes they elude them, but not until they find out how difficult it can be. And sometimes have the chunks of meat missing from their rump to remind them. And occasionally the results are even more devastating. It all comes down to the fact that the deer have no idea what motives the dogs have in mind when they hear them chasing after a coon or whatever. They don't understand dog talk, and likely don't stick around to find out ..... lol.

Actually it serves no purpose to be talking in terms of speed or caliber. It all boils down to energy delivered at the various distances. That is the true measure of the effectiveness of guns. So far I have not heard anyone talk about that important factor. Not even any discussion of projectile mass. So all the discussion about how lethal these guns are, argues the point without one mention of the true criteria that matters.

Absolutely correct. The whole theory of the way these implements kill is different.

I guess it must vary depending on where you are and maybe even the kinds of pressure they receive. We don't have any of those "tame" deer .... lol. When they see a hunter, they know exactly what to do. I have seen them hold tight in cover and let you walk incredibly close to them. Most of the time that tactic works great for them. I have also seen them sprint off a ways and then check you out. I guess those are the curious ones that think that they have put enough distance between you that they can out-run you. But other than parks and urban situations, I have never seen any that became domesticated by armies of people traipsing through the woods. I suspect that many of those that might look like they are getting conditioned to people are likely fawns that have no base of experience with people to decide exactly what to do.

Caffeine-free diet Coke is the best I can muster any more with the armful of pills that they have me munching down daily alcohol is not really something that I should be getting into.....ha-ha. Boy do I ever get a hankerin' for a beer .... any beer, especially in the summer........ lol.

So, I guess all those white tails and butts that I see when I'm taking one of my many hikes in the woods is just the deer ignoring me because they have gotten accustomed to my presence. I'm not sure I really buy into all of that. I believe that I have seen evidence contrary to that on the state land where they have installed a maze of mountain bike trails that are constantly used all summer by bikers and hikers. I really have not seen deer standing there ignoring me (at any distance) over there even if I stay on one of those trails.

This is another one of those areas where we have new technology entering the scene with way too little data or empirical information to make any kind of educated judgment. Consider for a moment how many decades of proven results it has taken for hunters to get confidence in each caliber to establish solid expectations and confidence in each deer caliber. It should not be surprising that when this new weapon comes on the scene with performance specs that are so far short of traditional norms, there would be some skepticism. Calibers and loads are a hotly contested subject even now, and along comes somebody (a government body at that) that is pushing an energy delivery system that is far below anything ever considered adequate. I don't see how it could be anything but controversial. So given enough time perhaps it will prove itself adequate. But until all those mass trials (years of results) by hunters, the question of whether it should be considered to be a good clean deer harvesting weapon, the arguments will go on. I just hope I don't crack a tooth on some projectile that couldn't make it any farther than half way through one of the roasts that somebody shot up before I got to the next deer that I shoot ..... lol. Sorry, but such jokes are going to have to be put up with until the air rifle eventually wins confidence in the deer hunting world (if it indeed ever does).

I haven't seen any ice that I would dare walk out on yet. The idea of going through and coming up disoriented and under the ice is not something I would want to check out. Especially with the paralyzing effects of hypothermia.

Or, all of the above. I think also that there is a condition where hunting habits have changed so that it may appear that public land is underutilized. What I mean by that is that 30 or 40 years ago, the space age fabrics were not invented yet, and hunters usually were forced in moving quite early in the day just to keep warm. Now guys hunker into their treestands or at the base of a tree and sit like a lump all day. So you get the initial action in the first hour or so and then it all goes quiet, making it sound like everything is deserted.

Aw cripes Eddie, isn't old age wonderful? Look at all the wonderful new experiences you get to have. I think the urologists are the masters of pain. It hurts just thinking of my last activities with those people. I hope things get back to normal for you real quick. And whatever makes those damned stones develop ...... STOP DOING THAT!

Getting a bit far afield from the original topic, But I think this comment deserves a brief reply. I think those that have complained about the silence on state land, are speaking in a comparative sense. I am one of those that has commented on how quiet our parcel of public land was in recent years. And I am using an observation base of 56+ years on that same parcel of land when making that statement. If people feel there are still too many hunters on those lands, they really would have been unhappy 40 or 50 years ago ..... lol. However, that observation does not diminish the importance of that land to hunting in general. Over those 56 years of hunting, I have also watched thousands of acres locally that have been locked up and posted, and I assume that is happening state wide. In many cases, public lands are all that are left to many.

You feeling a bit up-tight and out of sorts today? Maybe there's something you should take for that.....lol.

Retrieval rights should be no problem. The resident either gives permission, or lives with the stink of the rotting carcass....... his choice.

Actually it has been done ( http://www.history.com/shows/chasing-tail/about ), and is still being done in a big time way ( http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/urban-archery/ ) and is a very common practice. urban and suburban "hunting" (if you want to call it that) is a widely accepted practice. I have a different view on it all including whether it should be done at all, but there are many areas of the country that disagrees with me on that.

Yes as you can see there are all kinds of aluminums stirred in there. Unless an arrow was bent beyond straightening, or broken, I saved every arrow I ever bought. And a lot of those are still serviceable and killing deer yet. I am not cheap ..... honest I'm not .... lol. ..... Well maybe a little. Actually I prefer the term "frugal". It sounds better. Or another way of looking at it is, "If it's not broken, don't fix it.

The following quote is probably words to live by: "My father taught me many things here — he taught me in this room. He taught me — keep your friends close but your enemies closer." That is probably a good reason to tune into Cuomo's State of the State address. He does bear close watching. Also with any luck this "I love Cuomo fest" may result in the creep throwing his shoulder out of joint as he attempts to pat himself on the back. But I have to say that my stomach will not tolerate that much exposure to this giant sack of ...... I will not be going out of my way to abuse myself with watching or listening to his disgusting attempts at justifying his existence.

No! Don't do it. It needs the big screen experience if any movie ever did.

No, it really is not right for me to have even tried to answer this question since my motives, challenges, and expectations for hunting are way beyond antlers. Yes, the fact is that I am content with just about any deer. I like challenges in my hunting, but I am not really into the "my rack is bigger than your rack" game. For me it is more about the quality of the hunt and the overall experience than he quality of the deer. The two deer that gave me the biggest thrills and sense of accomplishment was my 1st bow killed deer, a mere buck with 6" spikes. And my second most impressive and fulfilling hunt resulted in a doe that I took at 8 feet with a recurve. The rack had nothing to do with either of those. So, I guess I measure success a bit differently than most, and way differently than the premise of the question. I like big antlers, but they really have nothing to do with why I hunt. And so I am disqualified from answering the question with the criteria specified.

From Canandaigua south, it's pretty darn hard to tell how much snow we've really gotten since that howling wind has not stopped blowing since it started to snow days ago. But right now we have and inch or two on the ground. How much that wind has blown off or evaporated is anybody's guess. Yesterday was kind of weird. I tried to go to Eastview Mall, and as I kept getting closer to Victor (going north) I was watching the sky in that direction that looked very black and ugly. Just as I turned onto 96 at main street Victor in the center of town and looked about 100 yards ahead west) and saw a literal wall of snow coming down. No gradual build-up of snowflakes but just a solid wall of snow with zero visibility into it. Actually it was damn scary and something that I have never seen before. I swung into the Corvette dealer and headed back, racing this weird storm. That wide open stretch between Victor and Holcomb had that wall of snow parallel all the way down to a couple of miles north of 5&20. That is when this thing caught up to us and was trying to cut us off from going farther south. I looked west into a big field, and couldn't believe my eyes. This storm was coming across the field, and it looked like a huge monster sand storm, flowing across this field. An absolute curtain of snow, tumbling across the field with huge cloud-like formations of blowing snow that looked to be 80 or 100' high. I was considering looking for a place to outlast this thing. All of a sudden, I was swallowed up into the middle of this, and visibility instantly went to zero. That is not an exaggeration. I got over to the side of the road, and sat there for a few minutes until it thinned out enough to see maybe 15 - 20 yards ahead. Realizing that even though I was off the road (I think), I was still in danger from other cars coming up behind me. So I started off again at a snail's pace. The wind was blowing so hard that it kept the road blown off a bit, and the blacktop was showing through reasonably well. At least good enough to stay on the road. About 8 miles of this crap, and it started to slow up pretty darn good. The rest of the trip was pretty uneventful.

I've got to be honest about all of this. You couldn't pay me to hunt in the urban/suburban areas. I just wouldn't do it. I watched that program a few years back called "Chasing Tail" or something like that. I have no interest in participating in that kind of fiasco. What kind of camo do you use? ...... Something with a rhododendron pattern. Do you use an old rusty Volkswagen bus for a blind? Do you wave at your neighbor when he comes out in his pajamas in the morning to get his paper? And when you shoot a deer and it runs over into the neighbor-kid's sandbox to die, do you have to wear some protective gear to shield against the screaming and crying kids that are throwing stones at you as you drag the bloody carcass away? That's hunting? Let the damn sharpshooters do it, I don't want anything to do with it. Besides, these residents who hate our guts and don't want us there need to live with the problems of car collisions, landscape damage, and Lyme ticks and such. My attitude is let the situation rot and fester until they are begging us to come in and fix their problem. All of a sudden, hunters will become their best friends.