Doc

If the ammo manufacturers don't start putting on extra shifts and boosting output, they are wasting a very good opportunity. Of course I am sure that they have in mind the possibility of a sudden reversal when the background checks finally get implemented and they wind up with gobs of inventory. But perhaps that is an even greater reason to "make hay while the sun shines".

And, much as I feared, the first challenge has hit the ditch. Hopefully we have more and better lawsuits on their way.

Ah .... poor Virg. You know some times even the trolls have bad days ..... lol.

I think that today there is a whole lot more competition for time, and that hunting is taking a hit as hunters wrestle with the conflicts of balancing activities and responsibilities with the more demanding hours required to hunt effectively. Also, technology and inventions in the hunting clothing industry has enabled guys to just plunk down at the base of a tree and stay there all day. Unfortunately the deer do the same thing so you don't see deer on the move throughout the day as you did years back when guys would quickly freeze out and be forced to get up and still-hunt. There .... now there is a whole bunch of generalizations based on observations from one little spot ... lol. But these are observations that I have made locally that seem to indicate trends for the future in hunting .... in my area at least.

Lol ..... If I had to hunt to eat, I'd starve to death no matter which weapon I used. Bow season is when I really "hunt". It's a time when I can rely on my own abilities rather than hoping that someone else accidently pushes a deer in my direction. I get to pattern deer instead of patterning hunters. It's a whole lot more rewarding when I am successful. The challenge of getting a deer inside of 20 yards with a bow forces me to rely more on knowing what the deer are doing, and why and when. Bigger challenge - bigger satisfaction with success. Generally speaking, a bow harvest is 100% my own doing and doesn't involve trying to position myself at some intercept point, hoping that somebody else will accidently push a deer out in my direction. But each season has its appeal, and I would not want to be forced to choose one or the other.

Well, at least some taxpayer money has been saved.

By the way, what do you think that goat that I mentioned was doing when he figured out that if he did what I did with that gate hook that he could open the gate and get out to where he wanted to go? He observed, recognized a solution to a problem and then put into practice what he had learned. Sounds like some animals do indeed have some form of rudimentary intelligence along with cognitive thought processes and some elements of reasoning after all, and an ability to learn totally apart from instinct. That brain was put there for more than just stuffing for the skull .... lol. I'm not sure where goats rank with deer in intelligence, but I'll bet they are quite similar.

That sounds like something that looks good in print, but most likely won't hold up against the first challenge. After all, it's just a matter of time before someone in those 4 categories of professions decides to use the process maliciously or simply misinterprets something that they thought they heard. I can well imagine someone being dragged out of their place of work only to find out that the report was completely bogus. I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be a legal recourse for something like that kind of act that could easily cost a guy his job and reputation. "Whoops ... sorry" just wouldn't cut it ..... lol.

They've got to start putting limits on quantities sold to each individual. Maybe if they did that they could interrupt this hoarding panic that's going on long enough to break it up.

Well, that was a dumb comment ..... lol. Of course they have had flash capability. Just a slight brain-fart. It happens occasionally if you get old enough .... ha-ha-ha.

Everything's cool on my computer. Of course it's early yet.

Has anyone heard what the penalties are for non-compliance with the different parts of this new law? What are we talking, misdemeanors or felonies or what? Fines, confiscations, jail time????

Some of the ugliest snow storms that I can remember have happened in March. And quite often, the quality of the snow is the heaviest, gloppiest, stuff that makes plowing like trying to move tons of soft icecream. I remember one March storm that flopped 3' of the wettest snow that can exist without being water. I had to bring in a payloader to clean out a skinny trail up my 1000' driveway. I believe that was in the 70's. So I never count winter out until after March is dead and gone. I also remember a 6" snowfall in May, but that most likely was a once in a lifetime event. Severe March storms are really almost common.

This is an area of that particular law where I believe they could have used a whole lot more time and thought. It gets into areas of personal lives that can be devastating if the wrong people start passing judgement and if proper safeguards against misuse are not put in place. There's no question that it is an area that needs some serious attention, but it is also an area that is very intrusive and gives enforcement authority to many people that perhaps should not have it. A psychiatrist who is trained to diagnose and treat mental illness is perhaps qualified to act as a "mind cop", but I start getting reservations when it comes to physicians, registered nurses, and social workers. Do they really have reliable credentials when it comes to mental diagnostics? I don't think so. However, all that aside, I'm wondering what stops a psychiatrist, registered nurse, social worker, or physician from calling the cops right now if they find someone who is talking about murder or suicide or some other act against society. I think they all have that right as do we all. What's different about this law is that certain practitioners are being legally compelled to perform as "mental police" simply because of their chosen profession. Should any of these people try to abide by this law and turn out to be mistaken, or if their allegations are not provable, It is very likely that they will be subject to some ruinous law suits and charges of malicious libel and other grounds for severe and costly legal punishments. It's an interesting discussion because it is obvious that there are some crazies that should be watched, treated, and kept from firearms, knives, machetes and fertilizer-and-fuel-oil. It just isn't all that clear that the best mechanism for doing that has been put into this law. There are a lot of questions that had they not been in such a hurry to cash in in the deaths of some children and firemen, perhaps they would have taken the time to consider in a more organized and thoughtful manner.

Ha-ha ... well, you really don't have to. Smart is a relative term, and I suppose until we figure out a way to interview them it is all totally uneducated opinion. I do believe that with enough observation we eventually see enough to show us that we usually underestimate their abilities to figure things out. The deal that I related about the deer's close relative, the goat, shows me that they (goats) at least have the ability to reason and figure out solutions to problems as ours did with the gate hook. So for me it is no great leap to assume deer have the same capabilities. So I have to allow for the very strong possibility that deer do have some level of reasoning, intelligence, "smarts". Does that mean that deer are smart? My guess (and that's all any of us are doing here) is that compared to a lot of other animals, they probably are.

Wow, there is some amazing stuff on that video. I had pictured this action would be coming from a bonifide psychologist only that had the subject as an official patient. Apparently that is not true. A report can be initiated by a psychiatrist, physician, registered nurse or licensed clinical social worker. What the hell, why not let you grocer fill one of these out too .... lol. Turning in one of these reports could result in involuntary transport by police or ambulance to a hospital for psychiatric evaluation. Man, picture that scenario. I didn't read any requirement of any second opinions when it comes to hauling you away. I didn't take the time to go through all of that video, but apparently we have a government "Office of Mental Health" that would be administering the mental health part of the law ....... bureaucrats. Pretty much as I suspected, the details are out of the hands and definitions of actual law and placed in the hands of bureaucrats for actual interpretation and administration.

I didn't realize that there ever were any "film" cameras used as trail-cams. I would assume that they were all daylight only cams ...... right?

Absolutely, the reaction to an arrow is a instinctual act. Actually it is a reflexive act that occurs way too fast to be anything that is thought about. It all happens much like we flinch at a loud unexpected noise. I don't think anyone is arguing that there are not instinctive and reflexive reactions that play a large part in a deer's life. Right from the day they are born, there are defensive acts that are born in (intinctive) behaviors. However, there are a lot of things already noted in this thread that definitely are "learned" behaviors, and learning does require some rudimentary level of intelligence. It cannot be denied that most animals have the ability to learn (although I have had some pets that made me wonder about that ....lol) and that is something completely apart from instinct. And per the original post on this thread, I have to wonder just how intelligent these critters really are.

This is something that I have wondered about. It seems to me that each season gets quieter and quieter, and the number of cars in the state parking lots and along the road get fewer and fewer. It's just a localized observation, but it does seem to me that opening day primarily consists of "opening morning" as now the afternoon shots seem to trail off to nothing. It also seems that hunters are 1 or 2 day hunters. There eventually comes a time in the season where it seems there are only a few guys in the whole valley. That's not at all what I remember from years ago when guys used to be up on their feet hunting throughout the season. When standing or still hunting got unproductive, the big drives would start. There was always something going on. Now it looks like hunters show up on opening day, plunk their rump somewhere in the woods for the morning, go out for lunch and never come back. The rest of the season for them seems to consist of an occasional Saturday here and there. So it would appear that we are now populated by pretty good hunter numbers, but they are all part-time hunters that don't log a whole lot of hours afield. And of those few hours afield, they don't seem to hunt in a way that moves a whole lot of deer (a lot of sitting). The good news is that even with all this reduced activity, the deer take seems to be as high as ever. So either we are getting a whole lot more efficient or the deer herd is being maintained at an uncontrolled level such that fewer man-hours of hunting are required to harvest the same number of deer. I do realize that these observations are based on a lot of years but a very tiny percentage of the state's hunting lands. Of course people in other areas may be experiencing a whole different scenario, and I am only talking about my own local area. Anyway, I don't know how much these changes in hunter behavior will continue to become more and more exaggerated in 50 years, but it seems there could come a time when hunters actually controlling deer populations comes up far short of being successful. That could wind up kind of interesting.

My cameras are always on daylight savings time so that there is never any confusion, and times of day are always in an "apples-to-apples" kind of comparison. I have done some spreadsheet database kinds of entries on my pictures where sorts can be done based on time of day. If my time entries were always shifting back and forth, they would start losing relevance. So keeping the camera-clocks always on the same time system not only makes records keeping simpler, but also it from becoming one more thing that I have to worry about keeping straight.

You are right on target. Learning and reasoning does not start at a human level. And just because a deer's intelligence does not match humans, doesn't mean that they do not have any intelligence. The real question is just where are the limits of a deer's ability to learn, not whether or not they do have the ability to learn.

I'm simply saying that learned behavior is by definition not instinctive behavior. And yes it does take a certain level of mental processing to equate that hook with freedom. He was not born with the instinct to unhook latches and open gates. But he was born with the ability to learn.

Actually the criteria as far as I could find was a very loosely worded phrase relating to doing harm one's self and/or others. So needless to say, some bureacracy will have to be created or added on to to conjure up the details of what exactly that means, and how the reporting structure is to take place (forms, etc.). Administrative bloat. And similar to all other boondoggles that the government conjures up, there's going to be screw-ups. And then since gun control is a politically sensitive issue, you can rest assured that the fine print finally worked out (and subject to no real legislative over-sight) will be arranged to include as many people as they can possibly sneak in. Do i trust them? ..... hell no. Why would I? Why would anyone but the most naive?

Learned experiences and responses are not instinctive.

And just who is it that passes judgement on the questions you have just raised? I'll bet it's not all spelled out in detail in the law. Although I do believe they put the qualifier on it that the attending psychiatrist or whatever had to judge that the mental impairment had to pose some danger to himself or others. That's still a huge grey area.