Doc

I am happy that you can see this issue in such a black and white fashion. I am envious that you have the scientific knowledge and background to be able to understand all the intricacies of pumping hazardous waste into the ground and apparently the exact knowledge of what happens when those accidental mishaps occur. As for myself, I am not blessed with that kind of boundless knowledge, and if there are people in this world that want to share their little pieces of knowledge with me about potential dangers of this corporate process, I guess I have no problem with them doing that no matter where they are from. Frankly, I do have to rely on a variety of opinions and facts from a variety of different people. No, I really don't see it quite as black and white as you do. Unlike you, I do have trouble making up my my own mind with most of the more pertanent and crucial facts being deliberately hidden from the public. This idea of using a secret sauce is fine when dealing with a can of soup. I can either buy it or not. But when someone is using a "secret sauce" in huge amounts with the potential of area wide contamination, then I hold them to a little more open and public disclosure before I can decide if I'm really for it. They don't want to be forthcoming with all of the facts, then I guess I am within my rights to withold my support and perhaps even dig in my heels a bit. I do have a problem with blindly issueing a blanket endorsement of the process when they refuse to disclose what the ingredients of the process are. So if someone from Ithaca or wherever wants to try to fill in some of the blanks I'll thank them rather than damning them for trying to help. I guess I am a bit of a hard-sell, and when it comes to corporate profit motives, I do expect more than just a little openess. I look at the opposition and continually ask the question (without answer), "What are their motives for lying"? It's a simple question, and yet there never is any answer. Motives abound for the gas companies who stand to make huge profits from the process. But when I ask what the motives are for opposing people to lie about what they see, experience or reason out, there is only dead silence. To me that all goes to credibility. The gas companies are not making themselves any more credible when they cloak the process in secrecy. If they are forced to use toxins in their process, I would expect as a bare minimum, some explanation of what those toxins are and why such stuff does the job better than more inert and harmless ingredients. I think its a discussion that needs to take place before level headed people of the community should be expected to give a go ahead. Really .... I need something more than a simple, "Trust me". I mean it's not like we have not been environmentally burnt before in the name of corporate profits.

Damn, some of us that are getting older forget just what great times that can be had with some of the simple adventures of kids in scouting. Thanks for the pictures and the reminder of good times.

My gosh people ..... the damn show is humor. That stuff is funny. It's not a world commentary on what hunting is or what hunting means or what hunters do ..... it's not a documentary for crying out loud. My take is that if there are people out there that are going to use this show as some kind of negative evidence of what hunters do, chances are pretty good that they have already made up their minds that hunting is an evil activity. I think most people recognize tongue-in-cheek programming when they see it.

Lol ...... Free enterprise at it's finest. Hunters screwing hunters. Of course I never really expected that all this hoarding and greedy behavior would result in unchanged prices. I'll bet they go up even farther before all this nonsense is done .......... that is if it ever is "done". We are successfully doing the work of the anti's for them.

Oh good .... so the piece of crap got to suffer a little bit. That's good news, I hope he was some pretty good agony.

I always thought "lock-down" was a prison term that involved super-securing inmates. Maybe this use of the term is just a psychological look into the future as they keep treating law abiding citizens as a bunch of law-breaking felons.

So far, I haven't heard a lot of accurate detail on the capture. Most likely it has been on but I just keep missing it. Was this guy shot? They are talking about how he isn't fit for answering any questions yet because he is still recovering to a point where he can be questioned? Also, who actually discovered him? They are talking about heat imaging which would make you think the cops were the ones that found him, but I also heard that the boat owner was the one that discovered him. Was there gunfire exchanged at the site of the boat?

One would hope that Wayne County can learn from the Ontario County fiasco. Our problem wasn't so much about "controversy" as it was about incompetency and blundering. If the process is carried out in a careful and deliberate fashion with everything properly worded, everything should go along smoothly.

I think we are both in agreement on this. A plan is only as good as its implementation.

Well like I already said, testing is one thing, having the will to use the results properly is quite another. If a school district has the data and refuses to use it, that does not necessarily mean that as an over-all policy it doesn't work.

In industry, it works just fine, not only over the last decade, but basicly forever. In education, it's an untested concept. This is the first serious attempt that I know of where teachers would be evaluated based on measureable results of standardized testing of their "product". The other thing is that someone has to pay attention to the results and develop a plan for those teachers that are not producing the results that others are capable of. And then of course stirring in "tenure" is another ridiculous factor that has never allowed teacher evaluations of any sort to have any impact. So, the short answer to your question is: let's try it first and then evaluate how it works.

I'm waiting for this creep to step in it deep enough to warrant impeachment proceedings.

Yes, there is always a problem when one property owner's use of his land impacts others. And it is a legitimate concern. Our whole system of zoning laws deal with that sort of thing because there are real effects from one neighbor to another. Effects such as my example of a neighbor creating a dump just over the lot-line, and rats and bugs and disease and smells and filth leaching into drinking water. Should the homeowner have no recourse? I think that is the issue at stake with this fracking topic. When does a homeowner have a legitimate stake in the land uses of others? Is it determined by how much money is to be made? Is it determined by how many jobs that can be created? Is it determined by some notion of energy independence? I think it is an issue of health first, collateral property damage second, and then maybe the other considerations can be factored in. My first concern is that I don't believe that there should be any secrecy about this toxic soup that they use when the liklihood exists for accidental pollution of area resources. They want it to be a secret, then they should be denied its use ..... period. Once the nature of this stuff is disclosed it should be studied to disclose what impacts could be expected on the resources of adjoining properties. That should include casual use with no incidents, as well as with spills and other accidents. If those impacts are severe, the use should be denied. The recipe should be closely monitored to ensure that it never changes without the same extensive studies being performed. If they do tamper with the formula without re-examination, the well should be denied and the company cited. It's probably plain that I am on the side of the property owner. I think there is and always has been way too much rough-shod treatment of landowners by the wealthy trying to get wealthier. It is situations like these that make me say, whoa there, let's slow down a bit. Let's figure out the truth of all this. It's not about money or jobs or energy independence, but simply about right and wrong treatment of one neighbor by another.

The only useful info that he could provide would be names of other cell members. Did they work alone? What resources are there out there that they successfully used? Are there others that he might spill the beans on. I have a feeling that they did not work by themselves. If they had help, I hope they will sweat that info out of him and expand the numbers of captures.

From the age of 11, I trapped around and in swamps and survived to tell about it. That's not to say that you can be foolish when walking around in a swamp. There are features hidden under water. Slippery mud can put you into water over your head before you know it. When submerged creekbeds are totally under water and not all that obvious, slow things down and move with extreme caustion. Hip boots/waders can fill with water and put you into an "un-swimable" condition. Boots can get stuck in the mud so tight you can't move your legs. Snakes were never a concern for me (western NY). Beavers can make some pretty treacherous features that can't always be seen. Underwater ditches, pot-holes, etc. I have also seen under-water entrances for bank-beavers that had some rather thin ceilings on them. So a cave-in along the creekbed might all of a sudden slide you into water over your head. I have been in situations that I wasn't completely sure I was going to get out of, so some common sense and a cautious attitude can help keep you out of trouble but with no guarantees. I always had a walking stick to probe ahead of me when I wasn't sure of what was there. I also kept all my movements down to careful un-hurried and thought out progress. In our swamp, there was always a time of the year when you had to exercise a lot of extra caution. In the spring time, sudden thaws could elevate creeks and make surrounding swamp lands extra deep. There was even some parts of the swamp that actually developed a pretty severe current. Ice that was previously safe could develop soft thin spots overnight. In a race to save some of my traps that were in danger of washing out, there were a few times when I may not have used the best judgement.... lol. Just use your head and recognize that there are a few dangers there that you won't find on high and dry land, and you will probably do all right. But like I said, there are no guarantees.

I can only say that something has to be done or we can continue to watch technical jobs flow overseas while we all turn into a country of "service industries". Seriously, education is only one part of our slide into mediocrity, but it is a big part. We cannot continue to not challenge teachers and the education industry. We just cannot afford it. At some point we have to repress arrogance and admit that we are losing our place in the world. It's not super obvious to those outside of technology jobs, but some of us have watched industry after industry go overseas taking our technology with it. It used to be that we were the only ones equipped to handle innovation and creativity ..... not anymore. If a little standardization and accountability and measurement is part of the answer then let's do it. Like I say that's only part of it all, but it is a heck of a good start. As far as testing the student rather than the teacher, that is a time tested method used all the time in industry. We always test the product and not the manufacturer. The manufacturer gets tested and evaluated by default.

Kind of reminds me of one of my trapline experiences. I used to dispatch trapped animals with a club. Seemed fairly humane, and left no damage on the pelt. That was ok until the day I slung a raccoon over my shoulder, heading back home and he "came back to life". All of a sudden, I could feel feet kicking and scratching against my back. I screamed like a little girl and dropped the sucker and started wacking on him again until I knew he was dead. I started carrying a .22 the next day.

Sounds pretty grueling to me and perhaps is a bit extreme. However, I guess I am in favor of some kind of standardized measuring system to see what parts of the educational system are doing their job and which ones need improvement or some sort of dramatic re-build. Some of the horror stories that I have heard about teaching methods (experiments) tell me that we need some defined and standardized data points to see what is really working and what are simply some educator's pipe-dream. Let's face it this free-for-all system that we have now sure isn't working ... is it?

Yeah, I think this is probably true. The whole scenario does highlight just how vulnerable people are against some of these wacked-out Islamic religious fanatics. It should also point up the fact that any criminal (foriegn or domestic) has the upper hand if they are the only ones with weapons. The idea of cowering in the corner of your apartment or house should wake a few up to the fact that the world is a dangerous place these days and the day of relying soley on the police at a time when certain danger is upon you, really shouldn't be acceptable to anyone. Here they had every law enforcement agency in the state clogging the streets and the best they could do was to tell people to hide in their homes.

Actually, that is the way I look at furbearers. My feeling is that hunting those critters in the summer months really is wasting a cash resource. It was kind of engrained in me back in the trapline days of my youth. I don't have anything against coyotes. If I was a sheep farmer, I might have an entirely different attitude. But as it stands right now, I see coyotes in the same light as foxes. Damn fine pelt when they are prime, and not to be taken until they are.

So, what exactly are gun stores selling? It sounds like they could open the doors for a half hour each week until they sell out whatever ammo they happen to receive and then go back home. This has to be affecting their gun sales also. Who wants to buy a gun that they can't get ammo for?

As I understand it, the typical propellant in a amateur pipe bomb is gun powder. And guess what.... if they can conjure up an excuse to heavily regulate gunpowder they will also get the benefit of throwing yet another chunk of harrassment toward gun owners. It's kind of a "two-fer" for these creeps. I still haven't heard what the muscle was behind these pressure cooker bombs was.

I guess I wouldn't worry about fracking problems if only the impacts respected property lines. Unfortunately water veins don't stop at the end of property lines. And of course, traffic noises of heavy trucks, and dust, and destroyed viewscapes, do not only occur on properties that are being compensated. It's kind of like zoning laws that try to protect home owners from having rat infested stinking open dumps established next door. Something of this magnitude does have community-wide impacts even for those that are not receiving a penny of compensation. Yes, some townships are attempting to close the doors to this sort of thing, but of course that is what all the fuss is all about. Those townships are under the threat of lawsuits by gas corporations with deep pockets with the potential of having landowner rights and wishes trampled by the court system. I saw it with the windfarm fiasco, and I am seeing it again with the gas companies. Money talks and usually winds up having priority over any other concerns.

I wonder what they are stocking the store with. Are they able to find ammo to sell down there in PA? Keep us informed how your trip turns out. I may be forced to take a trip down to get bullets, and brass.

I don't know .... I'm still new to this issue and am trying to play "catch-up". It's interesting to see how cavilier people are when it comes to sources of drinking water. It's kind of like, "oh well, so what. It's only water". I am still trying to get at the truth of both sides. I have to say that just based on motives and potential consequences, I kind of hold the gas companies to a much higher standard of proof.