Doc

Yeah, that pretty much is where I am coming from too. I have hunted the same land for about 50 years, and lived in that area for a bunch of years before that. And yes, you do get a pretty good feel for the changes in the level of shooting. I'm not saying that the shift to Saturday openers is having any impact, but I will say that that was when I first took note of the change.

It really doesn't take heavy pressure to send the deer into nocturnal activity. I don't even think a deer has to be shot at or even come into direct contact with the actual hunters to get them to turn on their super stealth mode. I have never seen a deer confused about the fact that hunting season is underway right within a few hours of the first shots. I think they put on the heavy survival moves within a few hours of the beginning of the first day. The stink of hunters in the air and on the ground tells them that something is up. I don't think that drives do anything toward spooking the deer more than just the fact that everywhere they go there is hunter scent. I just wish that hunters would put more pressure on the deer and keep them moving like they used to. Whether that pressure is drives or simply more still hunting, I don't care. I have this picture of all the deer bedded down somewhere, and all the hunters snoozing under a tree or playing video games, or anything other than putting those deer on their feet.

Yesterday, I was out for quite a few hours and heard only one shot in the vicinity. Today, I just got back in, and so far have yet to hear a shot. I often wonder what forms the different perceptions of a lot of shots versus an unusually few. The reason I am curious is that in region 9 in particular. Here in this thread we have 9X and 9P with reports of very little action and one report from 9F that is reporting a record high amount of shooting. I am not familiar with region 9, and I have no idea how close those WMUs are to each other, or any other feature of any of those WMUs that would cause so much variation, but those are complete opposite results. Perhaps 9F is closer to a city, or maybe for some weird reason there is more open land, or maybe there is something about the habitat that has more deer there, but it is a strange contrast in perception of activity.

At this time of the season, now that the deer are pretty much nocturnal, and all the hunters seem to be sleeping out in the woods all day, maybe it wouldn't be so bad to have somebody out there pushing deer for us. It sure beats sitting all day with nobody seeing anything.

Frankly, I would find it to be a bit of a pain to have to get into a foot-race with some other guy just to get to a spot. You never said how many acres this place was, but I'll bet it is big enough for the both of you without fighting to get to one particular spot. Since you don't seem to be able to run into each other to talk it out, I see this whole thing as ending badly. Somebody is going to have to back down.

Eddie, I am a bit concerned as to why you are asking. You didn't make a mistake when you were loading did you?

Was he there first? If so, I'd move to a different spot.

I don't do drives anymore, and I don't know anyone who does. I suspect that it is a more common practice in big-farm country where there are small isolated blocks of woods. Down our way, most of what you see is large wooded hills, and an occasional huge brushlot that used to be a farm field. It's not really set up for drives anymore

I drove 70 miles round trip for 40 years just to live out in the sticks. I actually enjoyed the ride most of the time. Yes there was a few days here and there when weather became an issue. Many times, I was the first one busting the trail through the snow. It's funny how it never seemed to bother me a whole lot. It was just nice to live out away from the cramped quarters of the city or the suburbs. And what a great place to raise kids. And of course, I had land to hunt on simply by climbing the hill behind the house.

I agree that you cannot go hunting convinced that you are going to be killed or maimed. At least not if you expect to enjoy your hunt. However, it is smart to be aware of the potential dangers and try to take some actions to put the odds of being wacked just a little more in your favor. I am always aware that there are possibilities that I might come across someone who isn't exactly the sharpest tack in the box, or somebody who doesn't really value my live as much as I do. So if the state wants to be just a little careful with legal hunting hours, I see that as not really all that big a problem. Sunrise to sunset seems like a very reasonable thing to me. I have never seen a deer that was so important that I felt that I should be shooting in some fuzzy darkness at it. Sure there are differences that make it possible to shoot in those twilight conditions. If the skies are absolutely clear, if the deer is standing right next to you, if you have no interest in seeing exactly what you are shooting at or where you might hit it, if you are watching a wide open field, if there is snow on the ground, then maybe it is possible to pull off a shot 1/2 hour before sunrise. But maybe the next day you go out there will be a foggy, drizzly, day of heavy clouds. Maybe you will be hunting in a mature hemlock woods. You might be amazed at how you can have difficulty seeing even at the legal sunrise time under certain conditions. Unless they are going to let you shoot in the dark, they have to put some restrictions on legal shooting light. I think they have chosen the most reasonable standard that takes into consideration almost all of the variables that you are likely to encounter this time of year.

This is not the first year that I have noticed what you are talking about. Each year has been getting quieter and quieter. Saturday we had the bulk of the shooting going on before it was even legal to shoot. Then it went very dead with only an occasional shot way off in the distance. Sunday was worse without even the early shots. Theories? ..... Well, I'm never short on theories .... lol. Theory number one: I'm thinking that hunters just are not as intense anymore. I think we have a lot of half-day hunters and then their hunting is done for the year. The lives of people are so damned crammed up with all kinds of competing activities and interests that they have to split their time up in a million different ways, and they just can't devote hours and days to any one activity anymore. I think the current license sales data shows that there are still a lot of people participating, but that doesn't reflect the level of intensity that they put into it. Theory number two: Today's scientific development of cold weather clothing has promoted "sitters". Guys get on stand and that's where they sit for the whole day. So you've got deer all hunkered down with the hunters all hunkered down and they simply are not moving anything. So you get a little action as the hunters come in and boot deer out ahead of them, and then they all just sit there..... all day. Theory number three: Maybe the equipment available now is so much more superior to what we've had in the past that more of those early shots are killing shots and these guys are just dragging their deer out and heading home. We have a lot more areas that are allowing rifles. Almost everybody has a scope on their guns. Theory number four: Most likely it is a combination of all of the above and a few more that I haven't thought of.

Thanksgiving used to be a very productive hunting day. You would have a very intense morning where hunters mostly got involved with drives and had deer moving everywhere. I used to have it all figured out. As the hunters left around noon for Thanksgiving dinner, the woods would empty out, and I always knew where the deer would get pushed to with that intense morning pressure. So a very careful still-hunt through the area always resulted in a Thanksgiving deer. The whole hunt would take about 2 hours. One of the nice things about living where you hunt is that I don't have to quit early and rush home for the Thanksgiving dinner like everyone else does. So I've always had the woods all to myself on Thanksgiving afternoon. We have all the family showing up at about 5:00 for eating on the turkey-bird. Everybody hunts so we moved it later so everyone could hunt the whole day if they wanted to. But it seems that in recent years, people don't even come out for the morning hunt. No more drives, no more heavy pressure. So my great scheme doesn't work anymore. There is no pressure to put them in that one little sanctuary spot. I have had great luck always knowing how to use other hunters and their pressure. Concentrating on escape routes and hunter patterns and actions, I generally have been able to be at a good intercept position. I never complain about too much hunter pressure because it all works to my advantage during gun season (only). But Thanksgiving has lately been a complete disappointment from that standpoint. So, if you are looking for an absolutely dead woods with nothing moving during daylight hours, Thanksgiving day is probably the day you want.

What saved the day was the fact that it wasn't my money that was being used. This was an early Christmas present and Birthday present. Oh geez I don't know if I could have pryed that much money out of my own wallet. That stuff would probably disintegrate if it ever was exposed to air. I will be loading up a bunch of ammo for it eventually. I haven't gotten out the Hornady books out yet to see what loads I'll be trying. I know it usually takes me a while to experiment with different loads and see just what flies the best (most consistantly) out of each individual gun. I expect there will be an experimental period where I try out different loads for this gun too. I'm kind of a fair-weather shooter, so I probably won't be doing a lot of shooting until next spring. My 100 yard range is up on top of the hill, and I'll be needing the ATV to lug all the equipment up there. So the snow will have to be mostly gone. Down below here, I have a 50 yard range where I can at least run some factory loads through to get a rough idea of how it shoots.

I like the variety that gun season affords. It is almost like a whole different activity. While they are both "hunting", they are completely different ways of hunting. For one example, today in a short while I will begin the still-hunting part of the hunting year. I don't bother doing that with a bow, but have been very successful in past years hunting that way with the gun. Also, this is the time of the year when almost all of the hunters get involved. The discussions and experiences now expand to include everybody. Gun hunting seems to involve many more people and the gatherings and comraderie involve way more friends and relatives. And then there is the fact that all those nasty little deer that have been thumbing their noses at me by staying out of bow range all of a sudden get a big surprise ..... lol.

Ha-ha ..... They have a factor for that. It's another one of those calculated guestimates that they apply to the reported kills. Aren't statistical studies wonderful ..... lol. There's a statistically derived factor for everything. I guess it doesn't always work everywhere.

Damn! I have to get a cleaning kit for it too. Boy the money just keeps flowing out the door. Yeah, maybe tomorrow I'll take a couple of pictures. I didn't think about that.

I'm not sure how you can be 100% sure that all those deer were different, but the point is made that you have a whole lot of deer there. Just to be able to see that many deer, even if there were some repeats means you are probably over-run with deer.....lol. It sounds like the DEC doesn't really have it right in your area. That wouldn't be the first time, would it? I really believe that the mild winter had a huge influence on deer populations. I can't remember when doe and fetus survival had conditions so perfect.

So, how did all the discussion about having a centerfire rifle in the woods during a shotgun only season actually come out? My shooting range is in the woods. So do I have to wait until shotgun season is concluded before I can legally shoot the darn thing?

And remember ..... hunting is recreation. We don't have to hunt to eat. There's a lot of days left, and we each should be setting our own pace. Not only that, but from what I have seen so far this year, you may not have really missed out on anything. It sure sounded like a lot of guys took today off.

It is unfortunate how many guys take up hunting and are totally unprepared. Even with the hunter safety training and all the info that goes along with it, apparently there are people that slip through the cracks, and don't really understand what is being told to them about necessary pre-season preparation. And yes, that all assumes that they actually took the course and were not just handed a certificate from an instructor friend. But it is true in all forms of education .... You can tell people what they should be doing, but you can't force them to do it. Keep your head down and your back to a big wide tree this season ....lol. You never know when one of these guys will be hunting in your neck of the woods.

Well, I went out and did it! I told my Brother-in-law not to bring all his guns down for me to try. I shot my son's .270, and decided that was just about right for my purposes. I've always had a bit of an impulsive streak in me when it comes to buying guns .... lol. I went for the Ruger American bolt action. It is a heck of a gun for the price ($379). Topped it off with a Nikon ProStaff, scope rings, and a sling and a double rifle case and a couple boxes of ammo. Now all I need is for the law to be changed so I can hunt deer with it ..... lol. Also, I would like to thank everyone for the help in this selection. It sounds like the .270 is right smack in the middle of what you all were recommending, which is right where I wanted to be. All the comments on the various calibers really helped me make up my mind.

Did you guys ever notice how much the sunrise and sunset times change as you go across the state. It's unbelievable how much of a difference there is from Buffalo to NYC. I had no idea. One thing I did take note of was what I could see 1/2 hour before sunset (or more specifically what I couldn't see). Yes, I could have easily shot with that limited light, as long as I wasn't looking for any detail on the deer. But then, it was a crystal clear day. I'm certain that 1/2 hour before sunrise on a cloudy day would have been way too dark for safe target ID, and a good look at what was in the background especially if there are guys running around without blaze orange. There have been other years when there was a bit of fog mixed in with heavy clouds that would have made a 1/2 hour before sunrise absolutely ridiculous. I think the state got it 100% correct with the sunrise starting time and the sunset finish.

It has been an interesting season to say the least. The bulk of the shooting was finished by the time the season legally opened yesterday. Shots almost 40 minutes before legal sunrise for this area. The first shot was so dark that it was a challenge to make out the trees in the woods. I have no idea what they were shooting at ..... maybe each other. The rest of the day was just an exercise in boredom. The shooting just stopped. I sat for the whole day, and it was about the most boring opening day I have put in. I think the weather was so nice, that everybody did just like I did, and sat all day with nobody moving deer at all. So the deer were bedded up, and the hunters were bedded up and nobody was doing anything. This morning (Sunday), it was a repeat without even the early morning shots. That's pretty discouraging. I'm taking this afternoon off. Tomorrow, my still-hunting begins. Maybe I can make my own action.

I'm no expert on wild boars, but from what I have read, they do travel a lot. So you may never see it back at that location same again.

Well, you have to live somewhere. Why not make it on your own hunting land. When you buy a house, the cost of the land becomes a very small percentage of the total cost.