Doc

How the heck can you pull off a decent shot when you are hanging on for dear life. It's pretty ugly when you have to lead the deer a bit because you and the bow are flailing around in the wind .... lol. On the other hand, I don't know how it's been where the rest of you have been hunting, but my impression of this year is that it has been one of the calmest in memory. Yes there have been a couple days where the wind was out of control, but in general, most of the days have been either dead still or just a gentle breeze. You don't usually see that this time of the year.

A one-pointer! pretty neat.

I've read about the one study, and I have read a few rebuttals to it. But primarily I have seen plenty of evidence that not all hunters shoot in safe directions, and as I have pointed out, backstops are not often required by all or even very many hunters. All hunters simply are not responsible. However getting back to the original thread, rifle or shotgun, I have to agree with nyantler ..... what the heck reason does anyone have for plagueing a neighborhood with any kind of close-in shooting? Just because it is legal? To me, a little consideration for the residents is in order even if you totally ignore the safety implications.

Ha-ha .... too late. I already bought it (.270 Ruger American). But I can't ignore the obvious.

How often in real hunting situations do you actually have a "good backstop" behind the deer you are shooting at? And I am defining a good backstop as an earthen embankment that will stop a bullet. Look at any rifle range and you will see what a "good backstop" really is ...... cleared to the target and beyond up to an earthen bullet catcher. Let's face it, most shots are taken at game that is in a level-ish wooded setting (sometimes a brushy thick background). Given the real-life kind of actual backstop shots that are close to other houses make you start wondering just how safe the 500' requirement really is. Legal? .... yes - safe? ..... probably not. Add in the use of rifles, and the proximity situation does make some of this stuff kind of "scarey". I can certainly understand the apprehension that a resident with or without kids might experience when someone is taking advantage of every legal foot when shooting.

There's some more of that "discretion" again ..... lol. I call it "laws that are written for arbitrary enforcement" and the conservation law books are riddled with it. Ah, but what are you going to do about it? ..... nothing you can do.

Aside from a little rally before legal light on opening day, the state land near me went deafeningly quiet. It was unreal, and I'm sure there are still some deer around that don't even realize there's a season in progress. For the last several years, I have been of the impression that there are a few things afoot in that regard. First of all, I believe that almost all hunters take a stand and just sit there until they are bored enough and then go home. With all the modern cold-weather clothing, nobody gets cold anymore or starts walking, moving deer. Second, I believe that hunters today lack a lot of enthusiasm and have become part-time hunters, often leaving the woods at noon and may or may not return after lunch or even the rest of the season. And third, specifically as regards state land, I do believe that many hunters have just been scared to death by the horror stories regarding hunting safety on public lands. The stories are favorite mythology, and they seem to grow in scariness each time they are told. I know several people who will not hunt state land because they have been convinced that it is unsafe and yet will hunt some heavily hunter infested private land where there are drives and all kinds of random scarey shots and 5-shot volleys going on. The unsafe state land theory has been over-sold. Fourth, there probably are some parcels of state land that have truly been over-harvested in previous years and hunters get frustrated and go elsewhere. And then there was this year when there were absolutely no acorns or apples. That sure has made a lot of people believe that there's not a deer left in the valley ..... lol. Whatever the reasons, I have noticed a distinct change in recent years and hopefully there will come a time when deer populations and ages begin to increase because of it.

Yet another well-intentioned (arbitrarily giving the benefit of a doubt here) assault on law abiding citizens because of misuse by the bad-guys. Now you can see just how far that mentality can dig into the personal rights of the average citizen. Banning airguns for crying out loud ..... lol. Have they outlawed the toy cap pistols yet? If anyone says "yes", I have to admit that I will not be shocked or surprised in the least.

Yeah, I know my memory is on it's way out, but am I the only one who remembers a video posted here that showed a sequence of pictures (taken from a video I assume) that depicted a rather large, healthy looking buck being taken down and killed by some coyotes? I have no idea how to locate it, but I'm very sure I saw it here somewhere. Anybody else remember that thread and the pictures? I can't even remember how many coyotes were involved, but it certainly answered the question of whether healthy adult deer can be killed by coyotes.

With the exception of the trigger guard, the rifle looks exactly like my old .22 given to me by my Dad when I was just a teenager. The one big difference is that my gun has a paragraph engraved on the barrel ..... lol. It may be an earlier model of my gun. The screw holding on the stock is 6-1/2" from the center of the trigger. The tubular magazine has an attachment bracket that is welded on to the lower side of the barrel at approx. 3-3/4" from the end of the magazine. It has a slide safety (back and forth) that has deep grooves formed in the top of it and is on the R.H. side. Mine has a plastic trigger guard but it looks like yours is sheet metal. So yes, there are a few differences in a couple of the details, but there looks to be many more similarities. Overall, the shape and proportions look identical. Mine is: Marlin Firearms Co. Model 81 New Haven Conn Usa --22-S-L-LR-- I'm thinking yours is an earlier generation of this make and model. Of course it's just a guess without having the two side by side.

Next time I go by it, I will take a picture of my crushed ground stand where a tree (about 24" in diameter) mangled the whole thing. Thankfully, I was not in it. But hunting from the ground offers up no guarantees that you can't still get squashed. Lesson learned .... Even in ground blinds, or even just still hunting, be aware of the condition of trees that you are near (especially on windy days).

I have no problems with wardens, but then I don't give them any problems either. They have a job to do, and knowing the nature of some of the hunters out there, I can probably thank them to a huge extent for the fact that our critters aren't cut down to nothing from poaching. Of course I have never received a ticket or even a warning, and that may help with my attitude .... lol.

I thought I had read recently that these kinds of guns were now classified as firearms by NYS. I believe that ruling was made within the past year so many people are not aware of the change. That is probably what Walmart's hang-up is.

Well, there's that word "discretion" again. It shows up a lot in these kinds of discussions and official answers. Tell me, how are you supposed to protect yourself against "officer discretion"? Does it involve some form of mind-reading? LOL .... look that term "discretion" up in the dictionary. It basicly means that you are completely at his mercy or in other words, pretty well screwed if he happens to be in a bad mood or looking for something to hang on you. And then too, what difference does the fact that you have "coyotes or bears in the area" have to do with laws about loaded guns after dark? Is that something to do with self-protection? I swear these guys at the DEC make it up as they go ..... lol. Whenever I ask the DEC about laws, e-mail is the only way that I feel safe. Having written legal descriptions at least gives me something that shows what I was told and the fact that I did inquire. I wonder how you would make out if you asked them to quote the exact passage in exact words out of the law books.

In the third picture, one thing that is not too obvious is the far hill across the valley. It is kind of faded out, but that is where most of the few shots that I heard were coming from. It is kind of interesting to listen to the shots and try to pic out exactly where they came from. It's amazing the mental games you come up with to keep yourself entertained .... lol. Our house is down at the base of the hill. Also in the first picture you can see the empty shotgun shell that took my deer last year stuck on a branch stub of one of the stand logs. He came down the hill from behind me. It's usually a great stand, and I have taken quite a few deer from just about every direction there over the years. I have to be looking all the time and in every direction. Wind direction doesn't mean a whole lot there because they come in from any and all directions. Unfortunately this year it was pretty quiet and no one was moving the deer the way they usually do.

Opening day stand. all set up and still waiting ... lol left downhill right, downhill View uphill behind me. That's where I shot my buck last year. None of these pictures really show how steep that area is. The camera tends to flatten everything out.

I too am fast approaching the age where I can see the eventual end. Just physically going through the rigors of scouting, climbing around the hills, dragging deer, and yet another thing that concerns me at my age is the idea of doing all this physical activity by myself with a history of a stroke a few years back and a few other medical problems. On the other hand, it is the hunting and scouting and just general hiking around the hills that keeps the joints oiled up and functioning. My slightly damaged health requires activity in order for me to exist. It is heavy exercise that keeps my blood pressure in check. It is exercise that keeps my blood sugar regulated. I need that activity to continue to exist. Hunting gives me a logical reason to be out wandering through the woods. Scouting automatically gives me a reason for year around outdoor activity. I'm certain that when I have to give up hunting and hiking and such that I will lose the motivation for an active life, and the results may be swift and sure. I don't think I would survive a sedentary lifestyle for very long. Not only all that, hunting is so engrained in my life that I would always miss the activity. I can't picture the thought of sitting in the house and hearing the shots outdoors without the ability to participate. I doubt that I could look at my wall of bows and other archery equipment and content myself with mere memories of what hunting used to be like. Of course it will happen one day if I should happen to live long enough, but I guess I will fight that ending as long as I am able to. So, I guess my time hasn't arrived ..... yet. But we all know that eventually it will, don't we?

I have seen some pretty crazy behavior with hunters over the years, but have yet to see one with a sign around his neck saying he was a "city hunter". I really can't tell the city hunter from the local at first glance .... lol. I doubt that there really is much of a difference between the two. Maybe that guy that walked up to me and started talking while cradling his gun in his elbow was from the city. I did have to make a point of the fact that the muzzle was pointed at my mid-section. And then the guy a bunch of years ago that wanted to talk while the muzzle of his shotgun rested on the top on his boot might have been a city hunter, but I have no way of knowing. And then there was the guy that was having a real challenge standing up that had the flaming red eyes and stunk like he was soaked in whisky .... he might have been a "city hunter". Then there is the occasional guy that likes to still-hunt right up my posted line so that he can cover my side of the line as well as the other. They might be city hunters. I don't know, those guys and a bunch of other clowns that I have witnessed over the years doing stupid or unethical things might have been "city hunters", or they might have been guys from just up the road or over the hill, or some farmer from another county. Who knows. Like I said they don't wear signs.

Not a real nice thing to have happen. I remember a lot of years ago (when I was still climbing around in trees) I dropped my bow (PSE Laser) and it bounced about half way back up to me. I was certain it was trashed, but as it turned out, it survived that abuse just fine. I didn't have a quiver attached at the time thankfully. Make sure you check that bow (and the arrows) over real close for any "hair-line" damage that may not be all that obvious at first glance. It looks like the arrows took the worst of the hit and probably saved the bow. I see the dirt jammed into the nocks so they obviously took the hit. As expensive as that may have turned out, that may have wound up to be a good thing.

You done good!!

Well, this looks like a thread that may involve a whole lot of "piling-on" (and rightfully so). So I think I'll just let this one lay there without comment.....lol.

Thanks Eddie for the Happy Thanksgiving greeting. I hope everybody has a happy, relaxing, enjoyable Thanksgiving surrounded by friends and family. We will be having a jillion people in for a monsterous feast and a whole bunch of hunting talk. I know I will be eating everything in sight and regreting it afterward. We always have a huge assortment of pies that I try to cram in around all the other stuff that I have already over-eaten on. It happens every Thanksgiving .... I can't help myself!

Heck, I am ready for Easter.

Yeah, that pretty much is where I am coming from too. I have hunted the same land for about 50 years, and lived in that area for a bunch of years before that. And yes, you do get a pretty good feel for the changes in the level of shooting. I'm not saying that the shift to Saturday openers is having any impact, but I will say that that was when I first took note of the change.

It really doesn't take heavy pressure to send the deer into nocturnal activity. I don't even think a deer has to be shot at or even come into direct contact with the actual hunters to get them to turn on their super stealth mode. I have never seen a deer confused about the fact that hunting season is underway right within a few hours of the first shots. I think they put on the heavy survival moves within a few hours of the beginning of the first day. The stink of hunters in the air and on the ground tells them that something is up. I don't think that drives do anything toward spooking the deer more than just the fact that everywhere they go there is hunter scent. I just wish that hunters would put more pressure on the deer and keep them moving like they used to. Whether that pressure is drives or simply more still hunting, I don't care. I have this picture of all the deer bedded down somewhere, and all the hunters snoozing under a tree or playing video games, or anything other than putting those deer on their feet.