Doc

What we need is a special youth small-game hunt. That would fix it ..... lol. End of problem.

Well, I suppose it is once again about time to repeat the same old question that no one seems to want to address. If mentors are missing or unwilling during the regular season, just where are all these mentors supposed to be coming from? And now with all the wisdom that the DEC could muster, they have made a good portion of the few available mentors choose between the bow season and the youth season. Good going DEC .... lol. By the way, has anybody ever heard a good explanation why the DEC chose to stuff the youth season right into the bow season? ..... anybody?? What was the rationale? Just to create controversy and dischord? Again ... good going DEC. But anyway ..... let's blame the NYB.

The only video that I still consider to be worth watching is the one done by theWensel brothers many, many years ago called the Bowhunting October Whitetails (I think that was the name). So I have quite a bit of respect for the author of the article above (erussell's post). Those guys seemed to know bowhunting and the mentality of challenge behind it. So his words have a pretty heavy dose of credibility. By the way, the reason I say that their video is the only video worth watching is because it was the last one that really tried to educate and entertain rather than just entertain alone. And the emphasis was definitely on the education part. There was a pile of info packed into that video. Today, there really is nothing new of innovative about anything that is being put out. All hunting videos are about TV personalities (who really don't have all that much personality). They simply regurgitate the same old crap over and over and rely on some rather impressive deer genetics to peddle their redundant story over and over.

I probably agree with more of this post than most bowhunters. I have no idea where they came up with this 8000 number, and it is probably as valid as most of their numerical guestimates (and that definitely is not an endorsement of their numbers .... lol). It might even be a high estimate. I'm thinking that we probably won't even be aware it's going on. It's basically window dressing that pretty much amounts to a wasted effort that makes everybody think the recruitment problem is solved. And I really don't like anything that drives the acceptance of deer hunting with guns being stirred into deer hunting with bows. With everybody jealously eyeballing the bow season, I can see this as being used as a precedent for future incursions of firearms deer hunting in bow season. It's all incrementalism at work.

Nobody has challenged my assertion that point counting in the wild is an in-exact activity in most cases. Anyone who wants to try to say thay they have been exactly right everytime with their point counts of deer in the woods is .... how can I put this in a non-confrontational way .... maybe a bit dilusional? I have seen a lot of bucks in my day and the percentage of them that I could swear that I had an exact count on would be actually quite small, and I think anyone interested in being honest would have to say the same thing. And then to determine how many points were on a particular side cuts the percentage even more. And it wasn't about the fact that I didn't know what I was shooting at. There was no doubt in my mind that I was clearly shooting at a racked buck of satisfactory size. I knew exactly what I was shooting at. Because I couldn't count the points and determine exactly which ones were really on which side is a reason for not shooting? Well, I guess it is now in some areas. But don't kid yourself, there will be plenty of good responsible hunters that will think they see the required number of tines on one antler that will just plain be wrong. We can pretend our infallibility all we want, but that still doesn't change the fact that when it comes to a tangle of tines, we don't always see what we think we see.

Gotta call in the Hog hunters. He's been "huntin' hogs since Mobey Dick was a sardine". He'll find them.

That's all very nice history and nothing new and of course I already know all that and my complaint about the DEC has absolutely nothing to do with who is or who isn't to blame for the status of the season. Re-read my message and you will understand that the complaint is clearly about communication (or more specificly the lack of communication) to the public as to what the status of the season is. If indeed the youth season is definitely on and the DEC intends to administer it, I have to wonder why the responsibility for informing the public seems to lie with various obscure newpapers. I am wondering why there simply isn't a very clear press release (included on their web-site) that clearly says that the hunt is cleared and ok, so that the public can participate without confusion. This announcement by rumor is not the right way to do it. If it is not on, they should also make that clear. Hell, even if there still is a question about it they should say something about that. You do realize that we are only a couple weeks away? Anyone trying to make arrangements for a mentor is quickly running out of time. I have extreme doubts about the effectiveness of this hunt, but the way they are screwing up informing the public, they certainly aren't making it any more effective.

Maybe the reason that those people seemed to be apologetic about taking a small buck is because of your accusing, belittleing, and disapproving attitude. And don't be telling me about how you "really dont care what anybody else shoots either as long as its legal". I don't think there is any question in anyone's mind that the tone and content of your message says that simply isn't true. That's the problem today. We have way too many guys concerned about what other people harvest. Many of them will browbeat and belittle anyone who doesn't take a deer that they "approve" of. What a bunch of BS. I'm sure that these people would gladly drive any hunters from our ranks that refuse to abide by their standards of what is "acceptable" to harvest. And I believe that is indeed happening. That kind of arrogance has got to stop.

Well, here is the problem .... Nobody of any authority (DEC or otherwise) has come out with an official press release that flat out says that the hunt is on. I mean are they establishing seasons with rumors? What a wacked out lack of administrative responsibility. I can see the date arriving and everyone still wondering if they should be hunting or not. I put the blame squarely on the backs of the DEC. If they have made a determination that the hunt goes forward, there should have already been some kind of official press release so that everyone is not screwed up with these rumors and conflicting media reports. That is no way to run a season. We're only 2 weeks away, and still dealing in rumors without a peep from the DEC (the supposed administers of the season).

No, it doesn't have anything to do with what kind of hunter anyone is. It has to do with creating more and more laws that are trying to make inadvertant mistakes turn into poaching. But if a hunter has decided that he wants to take a buck every year as a goal, that really is none of my business, and I wish him luck with whatever buck he chooses. And by the way, I will be the first to pat him on the back and congratulate him for whatever he gets, instead of berating what he thinks is an accomplishment. Maybe we would have a few more hunters around if we didn't spend so much time worrying about whether his success measures up to our expectations.

And so we are really talking a defacto increase in the legal requirement as stated in law ..... just to ensure that mistakes are not made. That was one of the ways that I listed as ensuring that you never make a miscount by transposing a tine from one antler to the other. Interesting how a 3-point rule can be used to make a restriction even more restrictive. We just can't seem to restrict ourselves and our fellow hunters enough can we?

Any groups that I get would be only because I had an arrow go real bad. I use a four spot target face, shooting only one arrow at each spot. I don't want to see any "groups" ...... lol.

Actually, Things are a little easier on the ground if your blind is set up properly. My ground stands generally have a substantial wall of cover for me to duck behind and get set for shooting in any direction necessary. In a treestand, I always felt very exposed when something unexpected happened and I had to move. As far as standing all the time, I have reached the point in my life where that just ain't going to happen.

Absolutely, you can 100% guarantee that you don't violate an antler count restriction or any other kind of AR..... If you eliminate most of your shot opportunities and only shoot deer that are so close that it is impossible to confuse the tines of each antler. And shoot only when light conditions are absolutely perfect. And shoot only deer that far exceed the legal minimum of points. And shoot only deer that give a good display of there antlers. And have all the time in the world to study the deer for a long time before shooting. And shoot only deer that parade back and forth around you giving you a look from every angle. And most reliable of all, simply don't shoot. Nobody will ever convince me that they were reliably able to count the points on the majority of bucks that they see in the woods ..... Nobody. Now it is time to be honest. Are you really trying to tell me that you don't believe that there will be honest bona-fide mistakes? Can you honestly say that it would really be impossible for you to make a mistake? Now, I did say to be honest. Do you believe that you have ever mis-counted tines on a buck or do you think you always get it right? It is nice to think that every law is created with practicality included. You would like to think that regulations and laws are made with at least some thought given to practicality and general ease of compliance. And it is quite easy to say that mistakes never should happen. But here in the real world, we understand that complexity adds unintended consequences. To pass laws that promote that is in itself a bit irresponsible. So the question is, why does every new regulation come with an incremental level of complexity? Are we trying to see just how much frustration we can throw in the face of hunters? Is this AR stuff really just a test to see how many we can lure into making illegal mistakes?

Do people actually sit and stare at magazine covers, day-dreaming about whatever deer is shown there? I can't say that I have ever done that.....lol.

This was found in the Q&A section below: Q: Is there a special "Youth Hunt" season for deer or bear? A: No. Junior Hunters and their mentors must hunt during the normal deer and bear seasons.

Yeah that was a bit brief. We have a long ways to go before the stress on trees and vegetation actually get any real relief. A lot of trees are going straight to brown leaves and dropping. I've seen a few small trees in people's yards that really look quite dead or dying. I can walk across my pond now without even getting by feet muddy (and I really don't have the ability to walk on water .....lol).

Sam- I understand what you are saying. You are talking about pictures that hunters can really relate to. Pictures of deer that we know do actually exist out in the wild, and perhaps even in the woods that we are hunting. That is, instead of some farm raised freak that is kind of a cartoon of a real whitetail. That makes sense to me.

So now you not only have to determine it's a buck, but you have to be able to determine it is a specific kind of buck, and you do not dare use the capability of your rifle because you might mis-interpret a single deciding tine as being on the near antler when it really is on the antler behind, and you will not be able to utilize some portion of the legal shooting hours because of the lighting, And heaven help you if he shows up with a light fog that obscures the fine detail of antler tines. Of course we all know that you always get lots of time to perform all this analysis. Let's face it, at some point these laws become simply a BS feature of harrassment. Wait until somebody sets us up with antler width requirements. That is commonly considered to be the best AR for keeping harvests out of the 1.5 year age group. Then we will have to whistle at the deer to get him to turn his head toward us for spread estimation. Don't laugh, I have heard it suggested. I will guarantee that some will definitely make a legitimate mistake in what they think they are seeing. A side view is just a tangle of tines unless you are on top of the deer. I myself have seen many deer where I have tried to count points and couldn't, simply because of the angle, and I'm sure you have too. I know we all think we are infallible, and cannot even imagine how you might mis-interpret an antler count, but personally I see it as a whole lot tougher than is being let on. The more difficult you make the laws, the more likely that real honest mistakes will happen. And every change in the laws that I see these days increases the complexity of performing what was once a fairly simple recreational activity. But I will say one thing, if you make buck harvests complicated and difficult enough, you definitely will get older bucks. They'll live a lot longer because no one will dare pull the trigger ..... lol. Maybe that's how AR really works.

Now that's something I would definitely watch. The only one that I have ever seen put on a regular TV hunting show that was strictly for fun and grins was Jim Shocky with his father. Actually I think I have seen him do that on two shows. It was really funny. It shows that somebody on his crew knows enough to mix it up a bit once in a while.

Personally, I like to let them age until there is a huge sway in their back. In fact if it sways enough for his belly to drag the ground a bit, so much the better. Also, if he is stumbling from frailness and has a definite arthritic limp, so much the better. Also I like to see a slight sunken-in look around the lips indicating no teeth. No, I think it is a bit too soon to be taking that youngster.

I am still a believer in those rubber cat-whiskers. I've tried a few of the newer ones, and on my bow nothing else does as good a job of quieting thing down.

That was it. It was up in Gulick .... pretty close to the town border.

Yes, there are definitely special tricks to hunting public land. The one thing that I and the deer have found out is that there are places that hunters simply are not willing to go into. Very often, they get out of their cars and immediately walk right by some of the hottest deer areas on the property. Multi-flora rose can be your friend if you know how to use it.....lol. Another thing I have found is that hunters are like cattle. They all follow the same path into the woods for quite a distance. The deer figure this out too. Hunter patterns are key to figuring out escape routes and timing. So while things on public lands can be a real pain, after a certain amount of time coexisting with the interruptions and hub-bub, you start to figure out certain things about each parcel, and sooner or later, it all starts coming together. Not many people have the patience to work it all out. The comments about the lack of attending deer camp ...... all true.

Also, remember that allergic reactions to poison ivy can change with age. When I was a youngster, I used to walk through it with shorts on and never got even one itch. Then as I got older, I would get a few little blisters that would last a day or so and then go away. Well, this year I found out that thedamn stuff can get in your blood and and start a general over-all rash that marches across the body. Not a nice thing .... and I used to boast that I couldn't get it ..... WRONG!