Larry

Just look at the harvest data for the last 5years it shows there is little support for AR’s. read the whole report

your not seeing a return on your investment some of you are just to hard headed to see it. you got what you want and thats all that matters.

this may help 09deerrpt.pdf

here is a graph

just to let you all know I do practice QDM. I just don't think it should be froced on anyone

that would make it 10 years it seem there is little return now so if you go from spikes to a 6pt so what or you may get 8 or maybe a 10 once in a while. look at so of the pic's on this site most are not from the AR WMU's

AR’s in this state are a DEAD issue you would more likely see the AR’s we have go away before you see any new ones. The state will do nothing to jeopardize license sales any further. One more thing those who claim they let small bucks walk most of you don’t. You can see it in the buck take the percentage of 1 ½ year old in the take has stay almost the same for the last 20 years there doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for AR’s if there were you would see a reduction in the buck take coming out of the 1 ½ year olds in the take. :'(

I’m not talking about the boondocks try Monroe, Livingston and Allegany counties and if you want to see pressure try Stuben.

Hunter sorry Thehunter if AR's are so good then why are most of the Biggest Buck coming out of non AR WMU's. hasn't the AR WMU's been around for about 5 years.

Could QDM be a prime factor in the lower number of deer sightings? We all heard it at the end of deer season on wed sites or in publications from other hunters; I hunted all season and only saw 6 deer all season. Then we start looking for someone or something to blame. We blame the DEC because we think the herd size estimates are wrong, we blame coyotes, to many nuisance permits being given out and even cars. All these are factors and there are more one of the biggest factors is hardly mentioned and that’s “US” myself included. When we all first started to hear about QDM and its management style; we were told if we wanted to see bigger bucks we needed to let small bucks walk, manage does (kill more does) this is not the same as antlerless. We were told the buck to doe ratio was way off and needed to be 1 to 1 this ratio is not correct. The harvesting of doe’s makes scents; to control a population you need to add or subtract females. We were also told that if we killed Does we would see more bucks. I do not think that is necessarily true and I can prove it. When I say doe’s I mean females 1.5 years old and older not antlerless. Because at any time before the deer season ½ to 2/3’s of the antlerless population on a piece of land are fawns. If on your land you have 15 doe’s and 5 bucks (1.5 years and older) and you kill 10 doe’s and no bucks you still only have 5 bucks. What you have done is reduced the number of doe’s by 2/3’s. What you will see are more buck sightings per doe sighting and you will see fewer fawns the next year. Another example is in Allegany County a farmer started a QDM program on his 1700 acres. He went out at night spot lighting to see what kind of deer he had and he saw lots of antlerless deer. For 3 years they took over 40 doe’s a year using DMP’s and DMAP’s. He would let you hunt there but you had to kill doe’s no bucks. They would kill a few big bucks. Then in years 4-6 they started to kill fewer and fewer doe’s by year 6 they killed less than 10 doe’s and no bucks, saw plenty of bucks before the season but killed none. Funny thing started to happen, his neighbors started to kill big bucks. They were not killing off their doe’s so the bucks were moving to where the does are. What I believe he did was not only destroy his doe population he also destroyed the age structure of his doe herd. This is what I believe we are doing under the miss guided concept of killing doe’s gives you more bucks and the myth of the 1 to 1 buck to doe ratio. If anyone can show me how killing doe’s can give you more bucks that’s a trick I would like to see. With a birth rate at 50/50 bucks to doe’s I am not advocating not shooting doe’s; what I am advocating is be careful on how many and where in the age structure you harvest the doe’s from.

the last few years its been 20yds or less

Early in the bow season it’s an hour before sun till 11 then back in the stand 3 till dark. After NOV. 1st its all day except to pee and eat lunch I don’t eat in the spot I hunt and( I pee by your stand.HAHA) I will climb down if I start to fall asleep in a tree stand

i would of shot her again. on the bp pistol once you load it you need a NY pistol permit to shoot it

I use a S&W 629 DX 44mag loaded with 245gr cast lead hp's

just going to his winter coat

I did hit a steel ram target at 200yds with a shotgun. with the first shoot BUT I WOUNLD NEVER EVEN THINK ABOUT SHOOTING AT A DEER THAT FAR with a shotgun. I had to aim 4 feet above the target

Mr VJP your post is right on target.

Thehunter unless you are already in an AR zone the data does not support you conclusion. Remember in GOD WE TRUST all others bring data. Check the harvest reports for the last 5 years the buck take is going up but the % of 1.5year old has remain the same. It may go up and down few points but it’s still around 70%. then check your WMU

The DEC will do nothing that will jeopardize license sales any further.

AR’s in this state are a DEAD issue you would more likely see the AR’s we have go away before you see any new ones.

??? The buck take has been increasing for the last 5 years and the percentage of 1.5 year olds has remained the same. This would suggest that not everyone who claims they are practicing in QDM is doing so. The data seems to say there is not a lot of support for AR’s in the state. If there were a lot of support for AR’s you would see a reduction in the buck harvest coming out of the percentage of 1.5 year olds taken and that is not happening.

noodle's post is right on the mark

yes

so what your saying is you want to be able tell your neighbor how to hunt on his land. if you don't like the way he hunts. if you can't make him hunt your way you want the state to change the rules to fit the way you hunt. Oh one more thing there are lots of big deer out there you just have to work at it I had to work for the 8 P & Y's I have thats why they call it hunting and not shooting spend less time watching hunting shows and more time in the woods!

Could QDM be a prime factor in the lower number of deer sightings? We all heard it at the end of deer season on wed sites or in publications from other hunters; I hunted all season and only saw 6 deer all season. Then we start looking for someone or something to blame. We blame the DEC because we think the herd size estimates are wrong, we blame coyotes, to many nuisance permits being given out and even cars. All these are factors and there are more one of the biggest factors is hardly mentioned and that’s “US” myself included. When we all first started to hear about QDM and its management style; we were told if we wanted to see bigger bucks we needed to let small bucks walk, manage does (kill more does) this is not the same as antlerless. We were told the buck to doe ratio was way off and needed to be 1 to 1 this ratio is not correct. The harvesting of doe’s makes scents; to control a population you need to add or subtract females. We were also told that if we killed Does we would see more bucks. I do not think that is necessarily true and I can prove it. When I say doe’s I mean females 1.5 years old and older not antlerless. Because at any time before the deer season ½ to 2/3’s of the antlerless population on a piece of land are fawns. If on your land you have 15 doe’s and 5 bucks (1.5 years and older) and you kill 10 doe’s and no bucks you still only have 5 bucks. What you have done is reduced the number of doe’s by 2/3’s. What you will see are more buck sightings per doe sighting and you will see fewer fawns the next year. Another example is in Allegany County a farmer started a QDM program on his 1700 acres. He went out at night spot lighting to see what kind of deer he had and he saw lots of antlerless deer. For 3 years they took over 40 doe’s a year using DMP’s and DMAP’s. He would let you hunt there but you had to kill doe’s no bucks. They would kill a few big bucks. Then in years 4-6 they started to kill fewer and fewer doe’s by year 6 they killed less than 10 doe’s and no bucks, saw plenty of bucks before the season but killed none. Funny thing started to happen, his neighbors started to kill big bucks. They were not killing off their doe’s so the bucks were moving to where the does are. What I believe he did was not only destroy his doe population he also destroyed the age structure of his doe herd. This is what I believe we are doing under the miss guided concept of killing doe’s gives you more bucks and the myth of the 1 to 1 buck to doe ratio. If anyone can show me how killing doe’s can give you more bucks that’s a trick I would like to see. With a birth rate at 50/50 bucks to doe’s I am not advocating not shooting doe’s; what I am advocating is be careful on how many and where in the age structure you harvest the doe’s from.