Larry

have you looked at the back of a dollar bill lately

I would like to hunt where 150 class 8 or 9pt are management bucks. When you cull 150 class bucks I think there is something wrong with your management plan.

Remember when you look at a deer from a tree stand your line of site is the hypotenuse or the C side of a right triangle. What you want to know is the TRUE BALLISTIC RANGE of the deer. Let’s say the” a” side is the height of your tree stand minus the height of the center of the deer. What you need to find out is the b side is the TRUE BALLISTIC RANGE. Just use right angle trig to fine out the “b” side. So if a=6yds and c=20yds then c=19.07yds. Just do you measurements from the base of the tree or by a ballistic compositing range finder.

The perect deer gun is the one you shoot the best

the three P's; Practice Practice and more Practice

I would never tell anyone they can’t put in a food plot because it’s legal to do so. Just don’t call it habitat improvement. What you created was a 5 acre feed troth. I just don’t see any real difference between food plots and baiting. Real habitat improvement to me would something like selective harvest of trees or like what we have done we had a small x-mass tree farm on the property; we just let it go now there is 1.5 acre tangled mess that is a real deer magnet. But that took about 7 years to let nature to take its course.

Sorry I didn’t mean to start a full scale war here. This is what I believe and why; I think there is little difference between food plots and baiting and I’m not the only one some of the biologists I’ve talk to at the DEC call food plots legal baiting. I see little difference in planting 5 acres of corn with no intentions of harvesting it for human or domesticated live stock consumption then the guy who puts out a 100lb. of corn in the back 40. The only differences I see are one cost more and takes more time and are consider to beacause agriculture so it’s legal. So with food plots being legal that’s that.

you can get around the no baiting by planting food plots

I would like to know how Animal husbandry has anything to do with free ranging deer. When by definition Animal husbandry is the care and breeding of Domesticated livestock. Here are some of the techniques used: breeders, herd health specialists, feeders, and milkers to help care for the animals. Techniques such as artificial insemination and embryo transfer are frequently used, not only as methods to guarantee that females are bred, but also to help improve herd genetics. This may be done by transplanting embryos from stud-quality females into flock-quality surrogate mothers - freeing up the stud-quality mother to be reimpregnated. This practice vastly increases the number of offspring which may be produced by a small selection of stud-quality parent animals. This in turn improves the ability of the animals to convert feed to meat, milk, or fiber more efficiently, and improve the quality of the final product. I would think it would be extremely difficult to employ any of these techniques on free ranging deer.

I just read the report and I don’t think there is anything new in it. The DEC did fetal studies back in the 60’s and 70’s that establish that most of the breeding took place around mid Nov... Using northern NY as an example for how long the rut in NY ran; probably isn’t good example. Think about in some parts of northern NY the deer densities are less than 1 deer per sq mile so wouldn’t you think it would take longer for most doe’s to be bread. Wouldn’t killing more of the older bucks give younger bucks a greater opportunity to breed not less? If you have 10 1.5 year old bucks and 10 2.5 year old and older bucks and you kill 6 of the older deer and 1 of the younger deer would that give the younger buck a better chance to breed. :

you woundn't want to say what state land would you lol

i would agree one place may get hit to hard and another wouldn't get hit hard enough

HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL SON PLAYS

Football tonight GO SAINTS

Football tonight [move]GO SAINTS [/move]

less then 5% of the buck take is from guys killing 2 not my number DEC's thats spead out acoss the whole state so its not a high number in any one place

after 10/17 i will be hunting for 1 of the 5 P&Y's I've seen and this wont matter. remember i do QDM but its my choice and thats what i'm for. there is room for all in the the deer wood if you think your way is better then the other guy and you want to force your way on him then ITS TIME FOR YOU TO GET OUT OF THE WOODS AND GO HOME. because you have lost your way and have forgotten what hunting is all about and i feel sorry for you. wheather or not you are for AR's it is how YOU play the game not how the guy on the other side of the fence plays the game.

i would like know where you got your number from if you read the post i said where hunting takes place also i said doe's not antlerless pick a wmu where you think the B&D ratio is 20:1 and i can prove its not. and it wont be all that hard

what i was tring to do was show how the number could be spun tho show what one wants to see i know the math 876 is 70% of 1245

If you divide 876 by 1245 you get .7036 so 876 is about 70% of 1245 I know how you got your numbers this go to show you how you can make things say what you want

There is no place in this state where hunting is aloud that the buck to doe ratio is anywhere near 20:1. When I say doe's I don’t mean antlerless I mean female deer 1.5 years and older. In most places where hunting takes place it’s closer to 3 or 4 to 1. If the B&D ratios were at 20:1 you would see more DMP’s. remember at any time before the start of the deer season ½ to 2/3’s of the antlerless deer are fawns that why I don’t like the term antlerless when talking about B&D ratios. The key fraise here is “where hunting is aloud”

can't remember the year but i think it been over 10 years

Remember this is just an observation. I have also hunted on a property where you can’t kill does only the kids can kill does. So they only kill one or two a year. They will kill any buck. I have on that property seen more deer and bucks in one day then in places in a whole season I saw 8 bucks in 1 day on the 3rd weekend of the gun season. Do I think they should kill more does yes do I think they should let small bucks walk? Don’t know did see a big 10 and 2 8s. The main thing it’s their land their rules and it works for them.

i don't think i have posted anything on the QDM thead it is on the AR thead some where

Could QDM be a prime factor in the lower number of deer sightings? We all heard it at the end of deer season on wed sites or in publications from other hunters; I hunted all season and only saw 6 deer all season. Then we start looking for someone or something to blame. We blame the DEC because we think the herd size estimates are wrong, we blame coyotes, to many nuisance permits being given out and even cars. All these are factors and there are more one of the biggest factors is hardly mentioned and that’s “US” myself included. When we all first started to hear about QDM and its management style; we were told if we wanted to see bigger bucks we needed to let small bucks walk, manage does (kill more does) this is not the same as antlerless. We were told the buck to doe ratio was way off and needed to be 1 to 1 this ratio is not correct. The harvesting of doe’s makes scents; to control a population you need to add or subtract females. We were also told that if we killed Does we would see more bucks. I do not think that is necessarily true and I can prove it. When I say doe’s I mean females 1.5 years old and older not antlerless. Because at any time before the deer season ½ to 2/3’s of the antlerless population on a piece of land are fawns. If on your land you have 15 doe’s and 5 bucks (1.5 years and older) and you kill 10 doe’s and no bucks you still only have 5 bucks. What you have done is reduced the number of doe’s by 2/3’s. What you will see are more buck sightings per doe sighting and you will see fewer fawns the next year. Another example is in Allegany County a farmer started a QDM program on his 1700 acres. He went out at night spot lighting to see what kind of deer he had and he saw lots of antlerless deer. For 3 years they took over 40 doe’s a year using DMP’s and DMAP’s. He would let you hunt there but you had to kill doe’s no bucks. They would kill a few big bucks. Then in years 4-6 they started to kill fewer and fewer doe’s by year 6 they killed less than 10 doe’s and no bucks, saw plenty of bucks before the season but killed none. Funny thing started to happen, his neighbors started to kill big bucks. They were not killing off their doe’s so the bucks were moving to where the does are. What I believe he did was not only destroy his doe population he also destroyed the age structure of his doe herd. This is what I believe we are doing under the miss guided concept of killing doe’s gives you more bucks and the myth of the 1 to 1 buck to doe ratio. If anyone can show me how killing doe’s can give you more bucks that’s a trick I would like to see. With a birth rate at 50/50 bucks to doe’s I am not advocating not shooting doe’s; what I am advocating is be careful on how many and where in the age structure you harvest the doe’s from.