airedale

My family home where I grew up was a farming community and Woodcocks were a common sight. Many times I witnessed the Woodcock's flight display and the distinct sound their wings made as they circled high in the sky. This fellow's video brought back some memories.

Take care of your game meat properly and the lead consumption issue is insignificant! Al

I think I caught part of one show while channel surfing and what I saw I liked. The problem I have is the two outdoor channels I get have are what to me is unorganized programing, seems like the lineups change on a weekly basis. The old OLN network had a pretty good set schedule and it was easy to stay up on favorite shows because they were always broadcast the same day and time slot. Hunting With Hank and the later Dash in the Uplands was easy find and view, Al

Love watching hunting dogs work so I will check it out. My favorite bird hunting show was "Hunting With Hank" it was produced right and I sure would like to see something along those lines come back. on the air. Al

I have seen and heard of plenty of powerball winners but have never seen or heard anything with 100% certainty where a person who ate game meat shot with a lead based bullet in the hundreds of years they have been used that got sick from doing so and neither has anyone else. Pretty good odds in my book! Refined sugar is probably one of the most destructive substances Humans consume, it causes more maladys to our bodies than just about anything over the short and long run. If you health crusaders are serious wanting to take up a cause finding a solution to a health concern this would be a good one and it is actually real. Just saying!! Al

"This boils down to an anti-hunting initiative," says Jess Brooks at Barnes Bullets, one of the leading manufacturers of non-toxic bullets. "It's as simple as that. We're not looking at this as a bullet-sales tool at all. We're looking at it as an issue to divide hunters and thin our ranks."

To say the current administration we have in this country has nothing to do with this subject is laughable, for me it is the biggest most obvious single indicator of all that this lead bullet crusade does not have much of a foot to stand on when it comes to human health problems. Because he can not get any gun control legislation passed our president on national TV in an address to this nation said he will on his own pursue anything and everything by any means find a way to get something positive done for his anti gun agenda. Like I posted earlier a ban or restriction on lead based ammo would be the holy grail. The problem is that this line of attack will go down in smoke because anyone who has been involved in hunting and the consumption of game meat shot with conventional lead bullets knows of no case of anyone getting sick!!! Al Mike Rossi Says "Be Serious" I am dead serious Mr Rossi, I take this president for his word when it comes to gun control, this administration just a few years ago tried to ban the sale of green tip 223 ammo, There is no question in my mind if they not only look at firearms to control they are also looking at any possibilities with ammo. and if they can find something to use they will. Al

can you just dismiss all that is in red above from the CDC? The answer to your question is absolutely for the simple reason I butcher and properly take care to remove and discard any questionable meat that I suspect may have lead in it. If by chance any got by me the amount would be insignificant. I have a better chance of hitting the Powerball Lottery than getting lead sickness from venison I have eaten. Al

I hunted a setup similar to that some years ago. I tried hunting the edges but in my particular case while there was still light all I was seeing were does.The bucks always stayed inside the tree line until it got dark and then they would come out. Well back before the game cams of today I had my my best luck when hunting a place like that looking for any well used game trails from the woods into the corn or hay fields and set up a stand in a place set back in the woods fifty yards or so where I had a good view of the trail. I ended up getting three bucks from that area all staying inside the tree line waiting to hit the field when it got dark. Al

Outdoor life's Online Editor's take on Mr VLYWaterman's study 0 In its story, which shock waves through wildlife agencies and hunters’ forums, the AP went on to describe the dire symptoms of lead poisoning, but reported that “no sickness has been reported from lead-tainted venison” in North Dakota. This “study” has some profound implications. Are we hunters really injecting poison in the meat we bring home to feed our families? If so, then we need to know how we can help stop the epidemic. Is this North Dakota study just the leading edge of a public-health and conservation tsunami that will change the way we hunt? Will we start viewing the succulent backstrap from last fall’s buck not as healthy, fat-, hormone- and antibiotic-free protein but as contamination that can cause “confusion, learning problems and convulsions… brain damage and death,” as the AP reports? Coming on the heels of California’s ban on lead bullets in the historic range of the endangered California condor, this news report from North Dakota would be especially unsettling if it wasn’t so flimsy. For starters, the source of the health scare is suspect, even if his motivations are pure. Dr. William Cornatzer is a dermatologist, not an epidemiologist. Plus, he is on the board of The Peregrine Fund, an Idaho-based non-profit dedicated to raptor conservation that has lobbied hard to ban lead from condor country. The group is holding a conference in May entitled “Ingestion of Spent Lead Ammunition: Implications for Wildlife and Humans” (www.peregrinefund.org/Lead_conference/). Is Dr. Cornatzer’s study designed to foment outrage over home-freezer contamination leading up to the conference? Then there’s the scientific validity of the study itself. Cornatzer’s initial investigation found detectable levels of lead in 53 of the 100 one-pound packages of ground venison he tested, according to the AP. That’s significant, but is it replicable? A follow-up study by North Dakota’s state health department found lead in all five samples of venison it tested. Disturbing, yes. But not as disturbing as the actions of public-health officials who extrapolated from this tiny sample that all hunter-harvested venison should be discarded. Then there’s the oh-really nature of this report. I’m no Butcher Shop CSI forensic analyst, but I have a very hard time imagining lead “dust” in the hindquarters of my lung-shot deer. I have cut out jellied, bloodshot meat from many a front shoulder, but have difficulty believing that a bullet that passed through left debris in the backstraps or in the rump roasts. But then, I butcher all my game myself whenever possible. For me, it’s the satisfying conclusion to a successful hunt, cutting and wrapping and labeling packages of protein that will sustain my family for the next year. And I am very careful that the meat I preserve isn’t contaminated with hair, dirt or blood. I don’t like taking my meat to commercial butchers because I don’t know how they will handle it. Will they take the same care I do to trim off bloodshot meat? Can I be sure I’m getting my own meat back? Do they grind unblemished meat with some that may be compromised? Most butchers do a top-notch job, but some probably cut corners. Did the Bismarck samples come from shoddy meat shops? Maybe a follow-up study should look at practices in commercial meat shops and not implicate hunters who kill animals with lead bullets. Or maybe a study should investigate the prevalence of lead poisoning in hunters’ families. As in the very real lead-paint epidemic of the 1960s, there should be evidence of the problem in the population. If I’m poisoning my family, I want to stop. And if bullet-spraying hunters are a public-health menace, let’s discover the depth of the problem and systematically resolve it. But I want to make those decisions based on peer-reviewed science, not alarmist do-gooding. - Andrew McKean

To say the current administration we have in this country has nothing to do with this subject is laughable, for me it is the biggest most obvious single indicator of all that this lead bullet crusade does not have much of a foot to stand on when it comes to human health problems. Because he can not get any gun control legislation passed our president on national TV in an address to this nation said he will on his own pursue anything and everything by any means find a way to get something positive done for his anti gun agenda. Like I posted earlier a ban or restriction on lead based ammo would be the holy grail. The problem is that this line of attack will go down in smoke because anyone who has been involved in hunting and the consumption of game meat shot with conventional lead bullets knows of no case of anyone getting sick!!! Al

Not so fast, says the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which issued a news release proclaiming that the study confirms that traditional ammunition is not a public health risk. The release, in part, reads: As noted in a media advisory released by the North Dakota Department of Health, the highest lead level reading of an adult study participant was still below the CDC accepted lead level threshold for that of a child, and significantly lower than the CDC accepted lead level threshold for that of an adult. Furthermore, during a tele-press conference hosted by the ND Department of Health, officials stated they could not verify whether this adult even consumed game harvested with traditional ammunition. Correspondingly, the study only showed an insignificant 0.3 micrograms per deciliter difference between participants who ate wild game harvested with traditional ammunition and non-hunters in the control group. November 6, 2008Special EditionCDC Study Shows No Health RiskAssociated with Traditional AmmunitionA Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study on human lead levels of hunters in North Dakota has confirmed what hunters throughout the world have known for hundreds of years, that consuming game harvested with traditional ammunition poses absolutely no health risk to people, including children, and that the call to ban lead ammunition was and remains a scare tactic being pushed by anti-hunting groups to forward their political agenda.Today, additional information became available about the CDC study, originally released yesterday, that is important to disseminate to hunters, their families and the general public about the total and complete lack of any evidence of a human health risk from consuming game harvested using traditional ammunition. For instance, in the study the average lead level of the hunters tested was lower than that of the average American.In the CDC's study, children's lead levels had a mean of just 0.88 micrograms per deciliter, which is less than half the national average for children and an infinitesimally small fraction of the level that the CDC considers to be of concern for children (10 micrograms per deciliter). Yet, despite the total and complete lack of any evidence from this study of the existence of a human health risk, the Department of Health nevertheless urges that children under 6 and pregnant women not eat venison harvested using traditional ammunition. The North Dakota Department of Health's recommendation is based on a "zero tolerance" approach to the issue of blood lead levels that is not supported by science or the CDC's guidelines.To further put in perspective the claims concerning the safety of game harvested using traditional ammunition, consider this statement from the Iowa Department of Public Health (IDPH) -- a state agency that has conducted an extensive panel of blood-lead testing for more than 15 years: "IDPH maintains that if lead in venison were a serious health risk, it would likely have surfaced within extensive blood-lead testing since 1992 with 500,000 youth under 6 and 25,000 adults having been screened." It has not.

Here is one guy's solution. Animals Need a Paving Moratorium Road banning helps more than mere road planning, especially because new roads initially generate more roadkills than old. The equation is simple: fewer roads equal fewer motor vehicles and roadkill. Replacing 20 cars with one bus, and 50 trucks with one train, would reduce congestion on present highways and postpone or eliminate the "need" for new ones. This could revive our ailing public transit and mass freight systems. Another simple equation is too controversial for most people to embrace and most lawmakers to endorse: Fewer affluent people, and fewer people generally, equal fewer motor vehicles, fewer roads and fewer roadkills. Legislators can reduce the speed and enhance the safety of our cars. Enforced speed limits would afford greater protection for every animal on the road, and for every motorist as well. But as long as automakers manufacture cars capable of cruising at 110 m.p.h., twice most legal speed limits, whatever lawmakers dictate will be disobeyed by chronic speedsters. Silent but deadly, next century's electric cars pose the greatest risk of all. With dwindling and damaged habitat, animals are losing ground in humanity's broader war against wildlife. In time, the rate of roadkill will declineónot from lack of cars or roads, but from lack of wildlife. Mark Matthew Braunstein authored "Radical Vegetarianism" and is a nature photographer. He is paraplegic, so he has an excuse for driving. The whole article here. http://www.culturechange.org/issue8/roadkill.htm

I for one will not be going anywhere my friend! Any time this fear monger lead ammo crap subject comes up I will be standing up against the slanted narrative posted here! Human impacts are not your concern because there is zero proof that a properly butchered big game animal shot with a jacketed lead bullet that has been removed of all the bloodshot meat suspected of having lead in it and discarded has any kind of adverse affect on long term Human health. With the administration this country has and it's justice department's desperate search for anything possible no matter how small for a some kind of law that would curb guns and their use what a bonanza it would be if they could ban lead based ammo! The reason they have not prosecuted lead in ammo is because what I said in the first paragraph, they would never be able to prove that there is enough lead consumed by eating game meat to cause enough harm that is measurable. It will not be banned because of Raptors because unlike the Condors out west that almost went extinct the Raptors numbers including eagles has risen every year and will continue to do so. As eagle numbers all over the country continue to rise I am sure you will find more incidents of them getting killed from various things the same as deer accidents with vehicle happen when their populations rise. Like posted on one of the other lead threads it is conservatively estimated that over one million various animal are killed every day on our roadways. I have always found it is pretty easy to target something when one has little or no vested interest. How much actual deer hunting and rifle-pistol shooting are you and Mr Rossi participating in these days? And finally to the "NO ONE IS PROMOTING A BAN" statement, always the first thing out of the lead ammo haters mouths, give me a freaking break!! There is absolutely no question in my mind if you Mr Curmudgeon could snap your fingers and and have all lead ammo eliminated you would do it in a heartbeat. All this being said if the bullet and ammunition manufacturers can ever come up with a bullet material made from some kind of lead substitute that price wise was close to lead and performed as well as lead on both game animals and has the same accuracy along safe for barrels it is shot through I would use it. Al

vlywaterman this lead business has all been discussed and debated in several long threads in depth just a few weeks ago on this board, I would suggest you read those threads. http://huntingny.com...rief-go-debate/ http://huntingny.com...-non-lead-ammo/

Way to go, love seeing young ladies interested and participating in the outdoor sports. Al

Don't forget Lenin Al

The lead based ammo debate was just hashed out here a few weeks ago and there is nothing in the video that was not discussed in depth previously or changes my mind about the continued use of conventional lead based ammunition. http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/32062-lead-ammo-brief-go-debate/ http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/32001-good-column-on-non-lead-ammo/ Maybe we ought to ban motor vehicles, it is said that conservatively "ONE MILLION" animals get killed just on our USA roads by vehicles every single day!! Al

Woodcock are movers, here today gone tomorrow, had days where I would flush a dozen and hunt the same cover and see none. My best luck was and is wooded areas around water, not big trees, patches of fairly thick small diameter trunked brushy stuff like Alders growing along side small creeks, ponds and streams. Old over grown orchards have produced well at times also, some of the same types of habitat I find Grouse in also. As far as eating I always thought Woodcock tasted pretty good. Al

When it comes to the powder you will have to do some detective work, loading manuals will point you in the right direction to the favorite powders for that case along with online searches. A chronograph is also a good tool because you can check and match bullet speed, if the reloading bug bites you it will be a good tool to have. I have loaded the 222 Remington mag for many years, a case very similar to the 223 that holds about gr and a half or so more powder. I have got outstanding accuracy with IMR 3031 25.5 grs and a 52 or 53 Sierra match bullet. I am just getting started loading the 223 and I am going to try the 3031 with the Sierra bullets first backing off slightly a gr or so with the powder, it should shoot pretty good. Al

Your rifle is liking those 60 gr bullets used in the Black Hills ammo, you should be able to come close to duplicating that load with a handload. Copy everything as close as possible using the same bullet, set your seating die to the factory Black Hills cartridge and pulling a bullet on a factory round and weighing their powder charge. With a bit of experimenting you will get pretty close and might even out do the Black Hills ammo with some tweaking. As for the Hornady bullets, personally never had much luck getting exceptional accuracy out of their 53 gr match bullets, the Sierra 52s and 53s match bullets always performed the best accuracy wise in my 22 cal varmint rifles. They are not an explosive bullet but they open up well enough for clean quick kills. Al

"Thank you for having some common sense, that is exactly what I'm talking about. You've adapted to your physical abilities/inabilities and made some changes to your style". --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Really not much to do with common sense more about the laws of nature, as we age we slow down. I still get around fine but like I said there is no way I run or climb like I did when 20. My age does not matter, I sure as hell won't be staying home because I can't evade dangerous situations as well as I did when young. If I can walk I will still be climbing those hills just a lot slower and if I keel over dragging out a Buck so be it. I can think of a heck of a lot more worse ways to go. Any varmints that may find my carcass better darn well make sure I am dead before they start dining because I will be packing. Al

"If a person has gotten to the point that they can't evade a potentially dangerous situation (real or perceived), then they need to stop putting themselves IN that situation." -------------------------------------------------------------- At age 67 I can not run or climb like I did when I was 20 and as years keep going by as much as I hate to admit it I slow down more and more. That being said I will be hitting the Timber until I croak even if I have to use a cane and I will be packing. Al

Be it wild animals, horny hillbillies or zombies it is all about as the old Boy Scout saying goes "Being Prepared". Al

The 25-06 is a favorite of mine, back in the mid seventies I had a semi custom 25-06 made up using a Santa Barbara commercial Mauser action and a 26 inch Douglas premium air gaged sporter weight barrel to squeeze out all the velocity I could get out of that big case. I put this gun up not for Deer but for long range windy day chuck hunting. I always loaded bullets on the lighter end of the 25's scale, 75 gr and 90 gr bullets gave me the best accuracy and I can say some of the longest shots I ever made were with that 25-06. I never shot a Deer with mine but there is no question in my mind that with bullets in the 100 gr and up category the 25-06 would be one of the finest long range deer rifles out there. I always wanted to take my 25-06 on an out west Mule Deer Antelope hunt but never got around to making it happen. Sold off the old Mauser many years ago but have been seriously thinking about one of the 28 inch stainless barrels Thompson Center makes for their Encore rifles as I still have quite a few 25-06 bullets and brass laying around which gives me a pretty good excuse to get one. Al