SteveNY

I would shoot some more rounds first.

I thought this too. I forgot I have them sitting in the shed. I'm going to look into some of them right now!

I do not find much thankfully, but when I do, I get it out if there. I often find very old glass bottles around, not sure why. Found some gallon size glass bottles that said CLOROX on them, must have been pretty old. Keep in mind that people lose things and drop things too. I have lost things in the woods that I am sure if someone found later would think I was a litter bug.

ah.... so was the drive to give him the tag worth it? haha Sweet gun, enjoy

Yea, there is a season for them where I am. I have never seen one though.

Sounds like all the other bucks are jealous and trying to break his antlers... They probably didnt let him play in any reindeer games either...

I've seen tracks, but never saw one yet. Definitely one of the coolest animals in the woods.

Doesn't say any where they were shot by hunters. "Investigators were waiting for surgeons to remove the bullets from the boys so they could confirm the caliber and whether they came from any of the hunters’ rifles." I hope it wasn't any hunter. For all we know, it could have been another kid from the school who shot. God bless the two hurt.

Because they wanted to make sure it worked for these pilot areas in NY. Now that in some areas its been working for over 5 years they are moving forward and adding more similar WMUs.I don't think its going to work in every WMU in NY, but it's not my job to decide that either.

It's obvious you do care a little or you wouldn't even post in here. I am open to anything anyone says. I guess I will have to go searching through your old posts to find what I'm looking for.Bottom line is, ARs work and the DEC is implementing them more and more. If you don't like it, go cry about it, quit hunting, write to the DEC and to Cuomo, what ever else it is that YOU need to do. Alright, I'm really done in here this time. I'll see you all in another thread, hopefully a little more lighthearted thread.

Go back and read my posts, if you want an answer about what else ARs do, I posted it at least twice in here already.Most hunters are in favor of the AR, the ones who don't like it are the minority.

Wow steve863, you know I used to value your insight and opinions on this board, I think you are a quality member of this forum here. But after this thread, I am not so sure.You're sounding like a guy that walks around with a tin foil hat now. I don't think the writer is paid by any one, and when he was paid it was by the DEC. Retired DEC deer biologist. Can you prove that this man was paid by "QDM" trophy hunters and just made up this scientific evidence and studies? He even cites studies both private and DEC. PS- I still don't even think you read any of the articles I posted.

I feel like no one actually reads my posts here, either that or some of you just have terrible reading comprehension and/or are just totally ignorant. People just keep bringing up the same topics I already covered in this thread and do not acknowledge what I have already posted. Maybe try having an open mind for a mere 10 minutes and read this article written by a DEER BIOLOGIST, you know, a guy who made a living of studying whitetail deer in New York state. I think he may know a thing OR TWO! about deer. I'm not saying take his word as gospel, just give it a read... http://www.hvqdma.co...ns-really-work/ I'm done in this thread, have fun guys.

No problem KEVA. Just want to inform you guys that hunters 17 and under are exempt from AR laws.

All my scopes are covered when im not using the gun, but they are usually in the case then too... Kinda makes me wonder why I even use them at all now... =\ I have one scope on my 5.56 that has flip up lenses, when I get to where I am gonna hunt, I open them and they stay open. They are also see through. I guess the best of both worlds is to use flip ups that are clear so you can see through them if you needed to make a quick shot, just flip them down when you walk through the brush or its raining/snowing/muddy/dusty or when you get to the truck

Now that is the only god damned thing I heard all day that makes any sense.

Looks pretty darn impressive in the pics too.

I don't recall the NJ bear hunt ever being stopped. As a matter of fact it was a huge success. Some anti's tried to have the hunt stopped but failed. "Firstly, to reach the conclusion of the animal activist we would need to disagree with the findings of both a Superior Court and Appellate Court, each ruling that the State of New Jersey had put together a viable, comprehensive bear management plan. The two courts agreed that the hunt should proceed." As for the Camp Smith story, I had not personally heard of that one, but I have heard other similar stories, but there will always be isolated cases like this. Maybe a small community will not allow hunting in small pockets, but on a State or Federal level, hunting will never be outlawed. Politicians and Judges will always look to the wildlife management agencies and their biologists. And no matter what the biologist thinks about hunting, it is necessary, and the science doesn't lie.

Steve, where I hunt I don't want the AR just because I want huge buck, its because I want to see buck period! Doe to buck ratio around here is totally out of whack. I see 15 doe to 1 buck, and I am being generous with that number. In 16 years the biggest buck I have shot is a 6-pointer that scores 58". The rest were ALL spikes. I can't see how AR will NOT help my area, it just isn't logical to think that it won't. Mature buck in my area are so rare, we hunters around here have nearly made them extinct. No one to blame but ourselves, but thats just how its been for many years.As a hunter, I am not happy at all with the quality of hunting in my WMU, and any hunter I talk to agrees with that, even the ones that don't agree with the AR. They are just stubborn and complain that they cant shoot their spikes and 4 pointers any more, but still complain there aren't bigger buck around. THAT IS BECAUSE WE ARE KILLING THEM ALL!!!!! If it didn't work, why is the DEC moving past the pilot areas and expanding it more and more? After all it is what these people do for a living. http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/arsummary11.pdf Like I said before, maybe the herd in your area has a good buck to doe ratio and doesn't need a mandatory AR program, but round here, we definitely do.

Its common sense, tell an anti hunter that less deer will be shot, what do you think they are gonna say?Who cares what websites the article posted on, it is still written by a well respected retired DEC deer biologist! Did you even read the article in its entirety? Probably not, because you didn't mention ANYTHING about it except the website that it is posted on. I am pretty sure if you actually read it you would have some things to say about it. The general public should be informed that the program is implemented to protect young bucks, and like I said in an earlier post "It is important to reinforce the fact that the program is to make the deer heard healthier, improve the adult male to adult female ratio, help deer survive the harsh winter and even help fawns avoid predation in the spring. The fact that there will be more mature buck when we hunt is just a side effect." I don't care much about the general public's opinion about AR programs, their opinions about it will never stop deer hunting. I will give them the proverbial pacifier if I need to, in person, as I usually do, to explain why deer must be hunted. Beyond that, I do not really value their opinions on hunting. I have been hunting deer for 16 years. In the areas that I hunt mature deer are rare, so rare in fact that in 16 years, I have only ever seen one mature buck while hunting, EVER! Even on my trail cameras that I have been using for over 3 years now (and they stay in the woods 24/7, unlike me) I have NOT A SINGLE PICTURE of a mature buck. I have THOUSANDS of pictures of does, and bear, and turkey and fox, but not ONE SINGLE MATURE BUCK! Only once every few years do I even see or hear of a mature buck taken in my area. I am now in the part of 3A that has a AR, and I am all for it. I would say at least 90% of the buck that are taken in my area are yearlings. It is not good for the herd. And if you can't see why that is, read the article I posted, you will see why. I don't think AR programs are a great idea for every WMU in the state, maybe you live in one of those areas, and hopefully the DEC will recognize that.

I understand that totally. It is important to reinforce the fact that the program is to make the deer heard healthier, improve the adult male to adult female ratio, help deer survive the harsh winter and even help fawns avoid predation in the spring. The fact that there will be more mature buck when we hunt is just a side effect.

Here is another article for those interested: http://www.hvqdma.co...ns-really-work/ Unless they introduce cougars and wolves back into NYS, hunters will always be needed to control deer population. This point can not be argued. Anyhow, you don't tell anti's that there is a AR program so we can shoot bigger bucks, you tell them it is because the adult buck to adult doe ratio is out of whack (which it is), and less deer will be shot for the first 3-6 years that the program is in effect. Once you tell an anti that less deer will be shot, even for a short amount of time, I think they will be all for it.

Great news!

Well most of the out of state research I have done happened in 2008 when the DEC started the program in one of the areas I hunt (3H). I did not compile all my studies nor save the sources. The information and studies are relatively easy to find on the internet.However, I would like to show you one article that comes to mind written by New York state resident and recently retired DEC deer biologist Dick Henry. Just to show that not all deer biologist agree, just like almost any other profession. The article can be found here: http://www.hvqdma.com/biological-needs-for-antler-restriction/

Everyone has their own opinion and their right to it. Personally, I have done the research about ARs in the rest of the country, the fact is that they work. I think the DEC went about it the right way and implemented it in pilot areas at first and not wide spread. One of the WMUs I hunt has had the AR for 3 years now, it's showing its benefits already. The proof is there, it works. I just think they should have done this 10-15 years ago. On the other hand, there are people around where I hunt that use deer for the meat and RELY on that meat every year. Maybe there can be some kind of special tag for those kinds of families. I am no law maker, so I dont know how this could work or would work. Just a thought.