Mr VJP

Great Cake! Happy Birthday.

More on the Wilton, NY case. http://capitalregion.ynn.com/content/top_stories/527812/12-year-old-dies-after-accidentally-shot-by-friend/

Dammit!! Another one in TN. 12-year-old girl shot by playmate http://wkrn.images.worldnow.com/images/8611124_BG1.jpg[/img]Enlarge this picture http://wkrn.images.worldnow.com/images/8611124_BG2.jpg[/img]Enlarge this picture http://wkrn.images.worldnow.com/images/8611124_BG3.jpg[/img]Enlarge this picture A 12-year-old girl remains in critical condition after police said she was shot in the head by her 11-year-old playmate. The boy is now in juvenile detention, charged with aggravated assault. The shooting occurred around 11:45 a.m. Wednesday on Mable Drive in the Lake Forest Estates subdivision in LaVergne. Police said three children were in the home alone when the 11-year-old found a pistol. Investigators said he deliberately pointed the gun at the victim, and the girl was afraid, making the shooting not "accidental." Police said one of the children called 911. No parents were at home at the time of shooting. "Adults leave their guns available to kids, and when they get curious or for whatever reason we end up having a shooting," said LaVergne Police Chief Ted Boyd. "This is a tragedy that could have been prevented just by simply using one of these locks," Boyd continued, holding up a gun lock that the department gives out for free. The parents of the 11-year-old shooter have not yet been charged. The girl was last listed in critical condition at Vanderbilt Children's Hospital.

Cisco, I said many teenagers. Not all teenagers. So your statement saying I'm painting all teenagers with a broad brush is inaccurate. Wait until you have kids to decide if what I have said is true or not. I know in my own relatives kids, as well as my friends kids, they do these things, and quite often at that. And I do not blame their parents as they did everything they could to "educate" them. I personally know of two kids who were fully trained in gun safety, hunter safety and proper firearm handling in every respect, yet they chose to use their father's gun to kill themselves. The guns were never locked up and one of the Dads was a cop. I know of many more kids who were fully trained as well but were caught by their parents handling the guns when they were home alone. How do I know the above 12 year old kid didn't get a gun from a locked box? Because if he did, the parents wouldn't be in hot water, as they would've done everything reasonably possible to prevent the tragedy and would be exonerated.

All of the above are pure assumption based on a perfect world scenario. If the gun had been locked up, the kid would never have been able to touch it.

I don't know why you're all thinking the kid had not been properly instructed on gun safety. That is pure assumption. Kids do not always do what they are told. Many teenagers do lots of things they know are wrong in order to be popular and cool They smoke cigarettes, drag race, drive drunk, have unprotected sex, do drugs, and commit suicide. All of which they have been taught not to do and know is wrong. How do you know a child won't decide to use a gun on them self someday? It happens. I have yet to hear of a single case of a child being shot because he was able to break into a handgun box and get to it in the first place. I'm NOT for new laws. I hate them. BUT the reason we get new laws is because people are not smart enough to avoid tragedies like this with a little common sense. If it keeps happening, you will see a new law to prevent it. We get these type of laws because we deserve them! To advise people to keep a loaded gun out where kids can get to them, especially when the gun owner is not home, rather than locking them in a handgun safe that takes 2 seconds to open, is advising perpetuation of preventable disasters. The only thing that gives the government the power to regulate anything, is public outrage at the irresponsible use of it.

No, you are not missing it. There is no forum for it. Perhaps there should be though. Put in a suggestion to add one to the site.

Too bad it's a Tuesday. More people would come if they could take off from work.

I've said this before, and will continue to say it.... If You're Not NRA, You're Nothing! No one hunts with me, or on my land, unless he is an active NRA member. If not for the NRA, you wouldn't have any guns at all. Any derogatory remarks against the NRA should only be coming from the anti-gun side, not from our side. If a gun owner tells me he is anti-NRA, there is gonna be a fight!

I'm looking forward to another day off from work because of the snow.

: Offense can not be given, only taken Bubba. None meant. Merry Christmas to you also.

The issue of beyond the target is there at the end of rule #4 How do you shoot an animal or a human threat if you keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction at that time? My 4 rules are a little more detailed. Perhaps because they are used to train adults for self defense purposes. I could easily regurgitate anything word for word after memorizing it. But I teach people to think of what the rules mean besides knowing what they are. If you were to mark these answers wrong on a kid's test and the scoring was challenged, I think you would, or should, be over ruled. Perhaps we need to add a fifth rule as well. "Be responsible for your loaded weapon at all times in order to prevent it's unauthorized use by anyone else."

Umm, If you go back and read what I posted, I think that is what I just said, only worded differently. Which two did I get wrong? If I took the test in your class and you marked two of my answers wrong, we would have to take it to a higher authority. P.S. I am an NRA certified firearms instructor and this is taken right out of my training manual.

Whoa, Bubba. That was not my intent at all. It was just a question. It just seems to me it would be part of a safety course. RULE 1 ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again. RULE 2 NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY You may not wish to destroy it, but you must be clear in your mind that you are quite ready to if you let that muzzle cover the target. To allow a firearm to point at another human being is a deadly threat, and should always be treated as such. RULE 3 KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TILL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET This we call the Golden Rule because its violation is responsible for about 80 percent of the firearms disasters we read about. RULE 4 BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET You never shoot at anything until you have positively identified it. You never fire at a shadow, or a sound, or a suspected presence. You shoot only when you know absolutely what you are shooting at and what is beyond it. How do we know the father had not instructed the kid to never touch the gun? How do we know if the kid had been through a hunter safety course? We don't. What we do know is the kid was able to get his hands on a loaded gun and kill another child with it. I think if the gun were kept locked up, this would never have happened.

Granted guys. But do you think there should be a law forcing every hunter to wear it?

Bubba, if I recall you are a Hunter Safety Instructor, correct? I would think you would be teaching responsible gun ownership along with safe gun handling. Is that not part of the course when teaching people about guns?

Life, is inherently dangerous. Each person goes through each day with the risk of getting killed. It's the brain that helps you survive by telling you what to do and not do. Making anything illegal because some people get killed doing it, would not leave much for the living to do during the day. Freedom is all about living each day as you choose, without infringing on another person's rights. If you fear deer drives, don't join one. If you join one and get shot, the risk was yours, but the shooter should be held responsible.

No, but thank God he took Ted Kennedy away! But you don't leave your car on the street with the keys in it do you? Regardless of how many incidents like this happen each year, each one is preventable by an adult that has enough foresight to prevent it.

I would support a law that says parents are responsible if they enabled the kids actions, yes. I also never leave my keys anywhere a minor could get to them. I believe in never taking any chances where a minor is concerned. Their brains don't work like responsible adults. They need to earn the right to be called an adult, and that only comes when all of the responsibility for their actions are on them and no one else. You are lucky you had good kids. If you didn't, your only recourse after someone got killed was to beat them. That won't bring a dead child back.

Bubba, you should know by now I hate any type of law infringing on my personal liberties, and I never said I agreed with, or want a law in place on this issue. However, it is because these things happen that these type of laws are forced upon us. I do not want a blaze orange law on the books either, but I think not wearing blaze orange while hunting is not safe. I hate motorcycle helmet laws and seat belt laws too, but I would never not use either of those safety devices. I don't drink or use the cell phone while driving either. Some things should never need a law to control people, but some people are willing to accept unacceptable risks. And that leaves open the door for big government to step on us. Trusting a small child to be safe around a loaded gun is too risky for me to be comfortable with. Take a chance if you want, but I know, with 100% certainty, this will never happen with one of my guns. Therefore I feel my position is in the best interest of all gun owners as well. So, if you don't believe guns should be inaccessible to minors, then perhaps you would support life in prison for the adult responsible for a child's death. Would it be worth the risk then?

I have a small Cannon handgun safe that's about the size of a shoe box. It has 5 push buttons on it to unlock it. I have it set with a 3 button combination. Unless you push the correct 3 buttons, in the correct sequence, it will not open. But you can open it and get to the loaded revolver inside in 3 seconds or less, even in the dark, when you know how. No matter how much education you give a kid, you never know when they will disobey you, or show your gun to the friend who will grab it in spite of your child's protests. No child should ever be able to get at a gun on their own. I don't know about NY, but in NJ it's the law to be sure a minor doesn't have easy access to any gun in the home. I hate the fact a law is in place, but it's cases like this that prompt one to be imposed. When I was young I had a couple of friends who got the heck beat out of them for getting at their father's guns, but these little s.o.b's were willing to risk a beating anyway and they would still do it. They just learned not to get caught in the future. You can buy lots of handgun safes that prevent a child from getting at a loaded gun that will not impede your ability to get to it if you need it.

My oldest daughter, living out in Portland, OR, gave me some Cabela's Maximum Thermal Protection Base Layer Underwear in their polar weight. A great MTP undershirt, crew neck top and bottoms in polar weight were in the box. This stuff wicks moisture away from the body and is a very warm base layer for cold weather hunting. I love it because I don't have to wear so many bulky layers over it to keep warm. That means less trouble when I have to relieve the bladder too! More to come later today when my other daughter and son wake up. ;D

This is a tragedy. Whichever parent was responsible for leaving a handgun where their 12 year old son had access to it, should be charged and jailed. WILTON, N.Y. (AP) — An immigrant couple who left Brooklyn to find peaceful refuge in upstate New York are grieving the death of their 12-year-old son, who was accidentally shot in the head by a friend playing with a handgun. Police say Nicholas Naumkin, a seventh-grade honor student who was fluent in Russian and English, was shot Wednesday evening at a friend's home in suburban Wilton, 35 miles north of Albany. The 12-year-old friend had found his father's loaded pistol in the home, a split-level ranch with a broad front porch on a leafy cul-de-sac. Yuri Naumkin, Nicholas' father, told the Albany Times-Union he immigrated from Russia to Brooklyn 20 years ago and moved to Wilton four years ago because he and his wife Oxsanna, who is from Ukraine, wanted to keep their two boys away from guns and gangs. "We moved here because we thought it was going to be safer for our children to grow up," Naumkin said. "We ended up right in the middle of the nonsense." Standing near a Christmas tree surrounded by wrapped gifts for Nicholas and his younger brother, Naumkin said he believed citizens should have access to information about who owns guns so they can decide if they want their children around them. He had allowed Nicholas to go to the friend's home for a sleepover. "While they have the right to have a gun, I would like to have the right to know that they have one in their house," he said. Oxsanna Naumkin said her husband had gone to the friend's home to drop off pajamas and a toothbrush for Nicholas and found police cars there. Nicholas had been taken by ambulance to Albany Medical Center, where he later died with his parents at his side. The Saratoga County Sheriff's office withheld the name of the boy who fired the gun. Saratoga County District Attorney James Murphy said his office and the sheriff's department would be investigating the case through the holiday weekend and would not release further information until Monday. "He was a wonderful boy," Oxsanna Naumkin said. "He was a very beautiful boy and gentle, very, very smart."

Well fellow hunters, this year my main objective was to bag a bear in NJ. I could’ve hunted for deer during the 6 day season down there in Hunterdon County where a lot of B&C class deer are taken every year. But I was lucky enough to draw a bear tag. I told my buddies I would be in Northwest NJ instead, in Stokes State Forest on the opener and the final day of the season, the only two days I could get out to hunt. I know this story doesn’t qualify for the contest because bear are not allowed in it this year, but I thought you all might like to hear the story. The opener was cold but still. The temps were in the high 20’s and the sky was starting to lighten up. My friend Nick (who also had a bear tag) and I, had a plan to wait until light before we went into the woods so we could see the bear if we pushed one out. For years, the number of hunters in these woods has been declining and few deer get pushed around anymore in there. In the 60’s and 70’s you had trouble finding a place to park. But this morning we counted only 12 cars on the two miles of road we traveled to get to our spot. There is a real thick swampy area about 300 yards in, downhill from the road. It always attracted deer when the hunting started. We took many good deer from this spot over the years. But without a lot of hunting pressure in the last decade, we had not taken a deer here since 2001. We did see a bear every now and then though, so I started scouting this area while hunting to learn the habits and locations of the bears in that area. They had nothing to fear though because NJ would not allow bear hunting. We learned a bear had a nest on the edge of the swamp. It would watch the area hunters approached from the road on the opener. It learned over the years to sneak through the swamp at dawn when hunters moved in and head deep into the woods for the rest of the deer season. Our plan was to have me swing around the back of the swamp to head it off if it tried that this morning. My buddy Nick would still hunt towards the nest area in hopes of getting a shot should it offer him one. At daybreak, we moved in. Both of us were still hunting and were fortunate enough that no other hunters were hunting near enough to spoil our plan. When I got into position, it was 7:30AM. There was enough light to see 200 yards and the wind was in my favor. To my left about 150 yards away, at the far end of the swamp, I could see deer slowly moving to my left, away from my friend, and looking back in his direction. I raised my 12 gauge Savage bolt action slug gun and could see a decent rack on the head of the last big bodied deer in my Nikon 2x7 scope. No shot was possible though as there were too many trees between us and the deer was moving. After 30 minutes I moved to my left to meet up with my buddy. The bear did not appear that morning. We hunted the rest of that opener, but without success. We returned the following Saturday, the final day of the season to try the same plan. The results were the same, except the deer we saw at daybreak were all does. I called my buddy’s cell phone at 8:30AM when he didn’t show at the meeting spot and told him to head back up to the truck so we could try something else. He had decided to push another area just a little further north of my spot in hopes of driving something my way. When we got to the truck, it was very sunny and getting warm. The ridge above the truck was very rocky and loaded with rhododendron. Not an easy place to hunt, but perfect for bear to hang out in. I suggested we head uphill 200 yards and still hunt north along the ridge, into the wind, and see if we might get lucky before lunch. Nick wasn’t impressed with the idea but agreed with a “Whatever” reply. I had him stop 100 yards up the hill telling him to wait until I was 100 yards further up and then start moving north very slowly. Once I was in position we started moving. That is some real thick brush in there. It is very rocky, with some big boulders too. It is not easy to see far at all, so it’s best to move slowly. At 9:30 AM I spotted a bear’s face in the bright sunlight, looking right at me, 75 yards away. It was directly in my path but the brush was obscuring it’s body and vitals. I cranked the scope up to 7X and dropped into a prone position. I could see the bears body now, and had a real steady rest, but the brush left me an opening only about 6” wide to shoot through. At that moment, the bear turned it's head away from me and looked down hill. I knew it was about to run so I put the cross hairs on it’s shoulder and squeezed the trigger. I was amazed that I could see the slug strike the bear in the scope exactly where I was aiming as the gun recoiled. The bear took a flying leap, as if it was diving into a lake, and landed behind a big boulder where I could no longer see it. I could see it didn’t run out from behind that boulder though. Now I was starting to wonder if it was dead behind that rock, or lying there in wait to attack whatever it was that was going to approach it. I called to Nick, told him to come up to my position and back me up on this bear. We approached it slowly and circled wide of the rock on the uphill side. At first we couldn’t see it at all and were wondering where it went. Then I noticed a thin crack of an opening under the boulder with a black area I thought was a hole in the ground. As we got closer we could see the bear's hind leg and then more of the body, but it had squeezed itself under this rock somewhat. I told Nick to be ready and back me up as I poked the bear a number of times with my muzzle. It never even twitched. We took out two deer drag ropes, tied them to the hind leg we could see, and dragged it out from under that rock. The more it started to show as we moved it out, the bigger it seemed to get. We were giddy with excitement when we had it in the open. Fortunately, we had a downhill drag from here and it only took a short while, with both of us working to slide it down to the truck on the dry leaves. The bear had taken one shot to the heart from my Savage 210F fully rifled slug gun and it only went 10 yards. It had a beautifully thick, jet black color to it’s fur with no white mark on the neck, and no rubbed areas at all. When we got it to the check station, the rangers said it didn’t have any tags or tattoos, meaning they had never captured this bear at anytime in it’s life. It weighed 260 field dressed and approximately 300 in live weight. After about 10 years of bear hunting, I finally made it happen. P.S. For all of the Blaze Orange lovers on here, I took off the b/o hat and vest for the pictures because it was warm by the time we finished dragging it down to the truck.

Oops!