wztirem

Without a doubt, there are areas within the state that are conducive to growing "Big Bucks" which perhaps would benefit from AR. The ADAKs we all know about. The southern zone of NY is not resplendent with amber fields of grain which would constitute habitat that would promote the growth of big deer. The deer habitat has changed dramatically over the last several generations and will continue to mature.Deer populations are out of control in many areas of the State (Westchester,Rockland,Putnam Counties) Agriculture within the state is a dying industry. AR to me is a seemingly short sighted solution. Carrying capacity of the land which promotes the growth of big deer is the real issue here. The DEC unquestionably does not have the resources to micromanage the deer habitat for a given area and the status quo will remain. Deer population control is the bottom line. THE DEC BY THEIR STATE MADATE ARE RESPONSIBLE TO CONTROL DEER POPULATIONS BY WHAT EVER METHOD(s) THEY DEEM NECESSARY despite what we as hunters have to say! As I mentioned, with AR comes other problems. How do you balance a deer population within a given DMU with the habitat(carrying capacity of the area) when you have no clear idea of the total population of deer in that area. Take into consideration how much of a given area lies in private hands and is off limits to hunting. "Let a dink live" and you have to kill some other deer. There has to be a balance. What is the balance? How do you attain such a balance? I will tell one thing, nature abhors unbalance and vacuums and will react accordingly! We are better off to let the professionals in the DEC manage the deer herd within the state and with the limited funds that are available to take care of things. If someone could come up with a definitive scientific plan for the state (per each DMU) to account for the states deer population,how to effectively manage said deer population, increase buck size, protect the public,preserve the habitat, increase hunter satisfaction, control poaching, enforce existing game laws etc. I would welcome it. To date no one can. Most arguments for change are self serving and do not account for the big picture and the results of such knee jerk changes can ultimately be detrimental to hunting within the state. If money was not an object, such changes based upon scientific studies would be acceptable. Are we as hunters willing to fund such endeavors, probably not! Alas, we can all continue to bitch and argue about such issues but we have no choice. Change costs money. Pony up or shut Up!

The illegal day laborers down her on the Island have been making out like "banditos" shoveling snow. I have to admit though that they are doing a great job! It was a mess down here and in many areas it still is!

In a way I agree with that.. nobody is knocking down NY's door to come hunting here. Many states have more to offer and get far more non-resident revenue because of it. Could be just the thing to boost revenues in NY by making it more attractive to hunt bigger bucks here. Not sure that we have the available hunting land like other states, but maybe Joe, The flora in NY does not promote the growth of big bucks. NY is not an agricultural state. The soil for the most part is poor. The food plot craze and QDM rhetoric only works in limited situations.

Take into consideration that the DEC has instituted deer hunting seasons to control deer populations to preserve habitat, protect the public etc. Protecting a certain age group may well increase (for a time) the overall deer population, increase competition for available food resources, damage the habitat, put the general public at risk etc. For every dink buck that one has to pass up, an equal number of older deer, be it bucks or does need to be removed to meet the DEC's state wide deer kill objectives. With AR comes other problems, which need to be addressed.

All one has to do is visit the the NYC Environmental Protection website and click the link pertaining to natural gas drilling. It is an interesting read.

New York Outdoor News ...... and I think the quote was pretty close to: We see no biological need to pursue AR. I'm sure many here have seen the quote as it has been referred to by other members. As far as my conversation with the future governor regarding the same subject; no one would believe me anyway! :-\

I hunted out there several years ago. What I recall was that it was a brutally cold day compounded by wind and snow squalls. My advice is to still hunt the area. There are a lot of deer( many unbelievably small) there and in years passed several whopper bucks have been taken. Dress warm and good luck!

Sounds like a Christmas wish! :-*

Well, I've got some news for you. NYS could care less how big the antlers on the bucks head are when they are gunned down by hunters. The state needs deer shot and the age and antler size doesn't make a difference to them. Game management is deer population control. This antler stuff is only a concern to hunters who want them. The state could care less about them. What you say above is clearly what the DEC is mandated to do The DEC will enact whatever measures they deem necessary to control deer populations,preserve habitat and protect the public.

Good Point!

I would plant some poison ivy, poison oak or poison sumac near that blind! :-*

How? Seeing deer and actual population are not one in the same. The DEC can only estimate deer populations in given DMU's based upon questionable data. Hunters do no report their kills.

You are so right! The penalties are not enough to deter poaching.

Doc, It was a joke, get a grip!

Just got back from the Hill, saw 10 deer(all does), all were out of range. Will be back in the am tomorrow.

That 16% success rate is telling. You would have thought that the success rate would be much higher. If the DEC really wanted to down size the deer herd by increasing the number of does killed they could implement more drastic measures such as doe days and mandatory killing of a doe before being able to kill a buck.

"I'm not going to continue the debate on this forum, but I am happy to continue to provide information that I deem credible to help everyone decide for themselves." That is certainly your choice. Your end game is clear. Good luck to you!

That guy holding the crossbow may well be a member of the NY Bowhunters> :-*

yeah, you dont know howmany dmps were filled and NOT reported... Or the number of bucks killed by hunters/poachers.

Probably too hard to use a recurve,compound or long bow.

Arcomm presented a pretty good argument. His posts were well thought out, concise and to the point. Nevertheless, his consulting company has been retained by a client whose vested interest is to be permitted to develop the Marcellus shale gas reserve in NY. Arcomm's company has a lot at stake for if their lobbying, politicking et al succeed his company stands to be rewarded. Consider this; he joined this site primarily to shill for an association whose primary objective is the development of the NY gas reserve. This site is a hunting site. Arcomms posts concerning hunting are transparent. He made his point, can he comment on any hunting issues? I for one do not believe what he says to be true. its a wiin win situation for a few and a potential long term environmental problem for future generations of the state.

What you have been saying for the most part does not deserve an answer. Are you mad?

He lived up to his name! In any event, the DEC should later publish for all to see; what punishment was meted out to these individuals.

The DEC website will provide you with the information. A lot of guys enter the lottery. I have hunted on LI many times, either via the lottery or on stand by. Your lottery number dictates your choice of when to hunt and your hunting location. Suffice to say, the lower your number the better to choose a date and a particular location.

Probably could never get a date.