Four Season Whitetail's

You and Stevie boy are really reaching now. Renaming Whitetails? HaHa.... Really after all this CWD crap and the backing of your beloved QDMA and the NRA and every other group that signed and all the lobbying they did to try and slow us down without as much as us missing a step and still nothing? They cant touch deer farming without threat or disease and we are seeing they are failing on this disease threat. As far as your thoughts on the Russian Boars and what the state did( and i really thought you were smarter than this) Do you know what the word Indigenous means. Look it up if not That is the one and only reason they got away with that one.

Oh no..It dont work that way...Thats your double standards at play. Shut deer movement down then you shut down every vector of the prion movement. What gives you or anyone the right to say how CWD can get spread? Thats just saying..We dont care about the CWD...WE care about the deer that are moving it!!! Which is 100% fact! Shut down all grain and hay agriculture out of CWD positive states. Shut down all non resident deer hunting in every state. Taxidermist can only work on local animals! Its not the disease...Its the deer and that all stems back to one thing and you sure as hell know its not CWD

I will tell you from first hand knowledge that if you do not claim war on those freakin things you will have no deer to hunt. What fawns they dont eat or adults they dont bring down in the snow,they will chase them untill the deer just leave! It has happened right here at my place. I played around trying to thin them when legal...It will not work, Like it or not you have to have a season on the 365 and take them at every chance and when it is open season( Which it should be 365) you need to get dogs in there to run them and kill by the dozens. Within a couple years you will have no deer hunting if ya dont. I know some will bitch about the closed season and all but i will take any ticket some econ wants to hand out before i will let something ruin what i work hard for and love. Sorry..Just not gunna happen!

Dont you really think last year when they shut the borders if they could have they would have shut the industry? Border closing is at the top of what they can do.Trust me...I was there. Ny state could not afford the lawsuits that would be handed to them. You think the Safe Act was a shot against your rights? You have not seen anything . We are considered alternative livestock and we are even now on the agriculture report. They cant shut down deer farming or high fence hunting. That ball would have been rolled long ago if it was possible.

Well it kind of sounds the other way around now. If that prion continues being found in the hays and grains that wild deer eat...Ha! And for the record..We are a farm under agriculture...They cant do any more to use than a dairy farm. And do you really think the clients fill out tax forms. Really i know for a fact you are a brighter person than that post you just wrote. Why do you think they try and use a disease to try and take us down? Thats all they have and science along with the disease itself is going to be their downfall. Problem is, when they fail, us sportsmen are going to be the ones that suffer. Sky is the limit here on the FARM my friend...

Thats just it...They can but they wont approve the testing for farms...They say ban deer urine yet they cant find the prion in urine. This is just Govmt and states trying to rid the landscape of deer farms and ranches because of money...Many say we are the greed well guess what.The states know how much money they are losing every year to high fence hunting and as we continue to grow and get stronger, hunting tag sales and hunters continue to drop numbers? Strange huh...Stats show less hunters and tag sales yet high fence gets bigger and more people every year. I will tell you this and i will say i know a bit more on this than the average Joe.that if this CWD thing that the states try to use against us as a tool backfires and some science comes through and shows CWD prion and say the CJD disease or one of the brain aliments that people get are related in any way and its caused by CWD you will not have to worry about Andy taking your deer guns because you will no longer have any use for them! Right now Canada is trying to stop any shipments of any grains or hays from any CWD positive states and if that goes through you will see other countries do the same. It will be Mad Cow all over again. If Canada does this you watch how fast the United States Govmt recants all their talks on CWD and you will here them say...Oh no worries about CWD it does not hurt humans and only takes a few deer a year...Their story will do a 360 real quick!

Let me catch you up to speed of just how things could have and did happen to bring CWD into Ny state. There is no way to tell if Ny did not put CWD into this guys lap with their deer or if this guy brought it in with his taxidermy shop.. As we have all heard, CWD was found in Oneida County, New York. CWD was confirmed on 2 different farms, the 1st farm owned by John Palmer and the 2nd by Martin Proper. The 1st positive was a 6-year-old doe that was harvested for a fireman's benefit dinner. In talking to John, he said, "I picked out the fattest, healthiest looking doe I had." Most people have been led to believe that CWD-positive deer exhibit signs of poor health, but the deer farming industry has found this to be untrue. The vast majority of those animals that have tested positive have shown little, if any signs of sickness. The herd was depopulated only days after the 1st positive was found. On a Tuesday morning, sharpshooters came in and after 6 hours had put down the remaining 18 deer. Samples were collected and sent in for analysis. Friday the results were back; 3 more positives were found for CWD. These 3 deer all came from New York State's Rehabilitation Program. John Palmer acquired these deer from New York's wild population through conservation officers. John Palmer's herd started when he purchased a few deer from Ohio in 1994. Later, he added other deer from a New York source. 7 years ago John started rehabilitating fawns. John said he took in 1-14 fawns per year from all over New York. John had the responsibility of determining whether the fawn could be released back into the wild or had to stay forever in a pen in his privately owned herd. He also relocated some of these fawns to other producers. This is how Martin Proper came into the picture. Martin Proper is the owner of the 2nd positive herd. The animal that tested positive for CWD on his farm was a 4- or 5-year-old buck that died from pneumonia, another rehabilitated wild deer from New York. Martin received 2 deer from John Palmer's herd; one doe that was blind and one doe born with only 3 feet. They had bred and had produced some offspring. The aforementioned buck killed one of these does during last year's rut, and was not tested because it happened before their CWD Program was up and running. The rest of Martin's herd was put down and samples analyzed. No other positives were found. There were 5 positives found in these 2 herds; 4 were deer taken from the wild [as rehabilitated fawns]. It is unclear to John where the very first doe originated, but he felt it could have originated from the wild as well. Taking deer from the wild is not condoned by the cervid industry and is strongly discouraged; nonetheless, it did happen with the deer in this situation. A statement released by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) on 5 Apr 2005 announced plans to conduct intensive monitoring of the wild deer population surrounding both farms to determine whether CWD has spread to the wild herds. The NYS DEC has already directed blame towards the farmed deer industry for bringing CWD into New York, even though there is a clear history of the DEC taking deer out of the wild and placing them into John Palmer's herd for rehabilitation. The question should be, "Where did the wild deer of New York get CWD?" Adding to the questions, without any answers, John is a taxidermist and has taken work from all over North America. He mentioned receiving work from the following states and Canadian province: Saskatchewan, Montana, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Colorado and Wyoming. When looking at where CWD has been found in the wild, many of these locations appear on that list. In a study released by Beth Williams and Mike Miller, they noted that [a deer] was just as likely to contract CWD from a live infected deer as it was to be housed in a pen with a dead positive carcass. Did one or more of the many dead animals brought into John's taxidermy studio have CWD? John stated that he kept the rehabilitation fawns in the same garage where he did much of his taxidermy work. It was common practice for John to sweep up his shop and deposit the salt and chemicals along the deer fence as a weed retardant. The industry has always said that movement of CWD-positive carcasses would move CWD much faster and farther than moving live animals. Is the New York situation just that? Is there a need to regulate movement of CWD-positive carcasses? There are many points that come to the forefront from the situation in New York: * The detection of CWD in New York clearly shows that the monitoring system is working. These programs are set up to identify herds at risk. * This event highlights the need for surveillance. Without the state monitoring/surveillance programs, these positive deer would not be detected. The more herds on these programs, the lower the risk. * In the face of CWD, the best defense is herd monitoring/surveillance. What better way to get participation than to recognize those who have already participated in these programs and allow for continued movement for their herds that have met the needed criteria? The event in New York has _in no way_ compromised the health status of any herd that has been enrolled in a CWD monitoring/surveillance program. * CWD conjures up many questions that remain unanswered. There is a continued need for the government agencies involved and the industry to work together to resolve some of those questions. * As previously seen, in discoveries of CWD, including this New York case, all too often the producer is portrayed as a villain. There is no one who wants this "disease" to be found on their property. When CWD is found, the industry expects the producers to be treated fairly and with respect. The finger-pointing and intimidation tactics are _not_ needed to resolve the issues involved with CWD and private ownership of deer in the United States. Deer farmers are fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters. They have served this country in the armed forces. Deer farmers come from all walks of life; doctors, lawyers, carpenters, plumbers, and housekeepers. The one thing they all have in common is the passion they have for their deer. Let us work together to resolve the issues that CWD brings to the forefront across this great country of ours. Gary Nelson, President NADeFA [email protected] [it has been reported in other newspaper sources that the owner of index herd in NY not only put the salt and other products from cleaning up his taxidermy work along his fence lines -- thus exposing his captive herd -- but also that the fawns in the taxidermy garage area may have licked, mouthed, or chewed on entrails from some deer. It is stated in this NADeFA release that the owner of the index herd was to decide whether the rehabilitated deer could return to the wild or were not capable of survival on their own, presumably because of serious injury, such as 3 legs, or imprinting on people. However, he was instructed to turn some loose in the wild. If the fawn or fawns in question consumed -- or otherwise contacted -- infected tissues in the taxidermy shop and then were released to the wild, then it could be speculated that NYS DEC would likely find exposed wild animals. If the fawn was originally wild, exposed through taxidermy work on other wild animals, and then released back to the wild, it would be difficult to say that captive animals brought disease to wild animals. It would be more acceptable to say the wild animals have introduced this disease to captive animals. - Mod.TG] ****** [2] Date: 27 Apr 2005 From: ProMED-mail promed@promedmail Source: New York State Department of Environmental Conservation website http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/deer/currentcwd.html For Release: Immediate Contact: Michael Fraser (518) 402-8000 Wed 27 Apr 2005 Chronic Wasting Disease Found in Oneida County Wild Deer; Preliminary Positive Result Found During DEC Monitoring Efforts The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) today announced it has received a preliminary positive result for chronic wasting disease (CWD) in a wild deer sampled in Oneida County. If confirmed, this will be the 1st known occurrence of CWD in the wild in New York State. The positive sample was from a yearling white-tailed deer tested as part of DEC's intensive monitoring effort in Oneida County. The sample tissue was tested at the State's Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory at Cornell University. The sample will be sent to the National Veterinary Services Laboratory in Ames, Iowa to be verified. DEC implemented intensive monitoring efforts after CWD was found in 2 captive white-tailed deer herds in Oneida County -- the 1st incidents of CWD in New York State. On 8 Apr 2005, the State Department of Agriculture and Markets (DAM) completed testing of the captive deer and found a total of 5 positive results for CWD in the 2 captive herds. To date, DEC, along with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Wildlife Services program, has sampled 213 deer from Oneida County and 25 deer from the Town of Arietta, Hamilton County. Since 2002, DEC has conducted statewide sampling of wild deer for CWD. Counting also the sampling efforts in Oneida and Hamilton Counties, DEC has collected more than 3700 samples from wild white-tailed deer. In response to the latest finding, DEC and DAM will continue public outreach to interested parties in Oneida County to help educate citizens on CWD and to discuss the next steps to be taken. In addition, DEC and DAM will conduct additional outreach and continue to aggressively pursue inspection and enforcement at all captive deer herds across the State. DAM continues to investigate, sample, and test white-tailed deer from 2 captive herds directly associated with the 2 herds that were confirmed positive for CWD in Oneida County. Results for these sampling efforts will be announced when available. DAM also continues to review its regulations regarding the movement, surveillance, and monitoring of live cervids in New York State. Later this week, DEC will file emergency regulations to ensure the proper handling of deer and prevent further spread of CWD in the wild herd. The emergency regulations will establish a containment area in Oneida County, where CWD has been identified and where certain requirements will be established on movement and handling of deer. The containment area will initially include the cities of Rome, Sherrill, Utica, and Oneida, as well as the towns of Floyd, Marcy, Whitestown, Westmoreland, Verona, Vernon, Kirkland, and New Hartford. Within the containment area, DEC's emergency regulations will: * prohibit the movement of certain animal parts out of the containment area; * establish mandatory check stations for any deer taken by hunters in the containment area; * prohibit possession of any deer killed by a motor vehicle so DEC can acquire specimens for testing; and, * prohibit the collection, sale, possession, or transport of deer or elk urine taken from the containment area. In addition to the requirements listed for the containment area, DEC's emergency regulations will include provisions to be followed by individuals and facilities across the State. The emergency regulations will also: * specify record-keeping and reporting requirements for taxidermists and require measures to prevent live cervids from coming in contact with any materials, including taxidermy materials, that may contain the infectious agent that causes CWD; * prohibit wildlife rehabilitators to take in wild white-tailed deer at facilities that house live cervids, unless they possess a specific permit from DEC; * require retailers who sell deer feed to post a sign provided by DEC to advise buyers of the State prohibition on feeding wild deer; regulations will also prohibit the sale of deer feed that is packaged or labeled for wild white-tailed deer. DEC will continue intensive sampling of wild deer in Oneida County through 30 Apr 2005. Additionally, DEC will sample all deer killed within the containment area pursuant to nuisance deer permits and by hunters for CWD testing. DEC will use the results of all these efforts to describe the distribution and prevalence of CWD in wild deer as accurately as possible. CWD is a transmissible disease that affects the brain and central nervous system of certain deer and elk. There is no evidence that CWD is linked to disease in humans or domestic livestock other than deer and elk. More information on CWD can be found at DEC's website http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/deer/currentcwd.html -- ProMED-mail [email protected] It would be quite unusual for a yearling to have the disease. However, if that yearling was exposed to infected tissues at a very early age, then it may be possible. Nevertheless, this presumptive finding is extremely unusual. Likewise, given the statements from the index herd owner regarding his direction to release rehabilitated deer back into the wild, then it would also be expected that DEC would find CWD cases in the wild. - Mod.TG Patricia A. Doyle, PhD Please visit my "Emerging Diseases" message board at: http://www.clickitnews.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php? Cat=&Board=emergingdiseases Zhan le Devlesa tai sastimasa Go with God and in Good Health The latter is probably more how it went down. For you to want to stop the movement of only one vector and not the others shows why you feel as you do. If you want CWD stopped then you need to stop everything involved and not just farmers animals. Sounds as though you play the double standards card yourself along with the Govmt.

Do you relly think when a state tests less than half of one percent of a herd they are going to find something and farms test 100% of every animal that dies or is harvested! Of course we are going to find it first. How come Ny does not test road killed animals before they spread the CWD prion all over the north country? How come Ny does not test animals down near the Pa border where CWD is going to walk in? Why is it that over a dozen states that have never had a farm or ranch on it has CWD? Why is it the state of Illinos has over 500 cases of CWD in the wild yet never a case behind fence with like 500 farms in that state? You tell me dont buy my feed from infected places! How the hell can a guy know what bag of corn sitting in a feed store came from an infected CWD field in the state of Iowa and shipped all across the country and now sits in Watertown Ny? Please tell me you dont think Iowa corn stays in Iowa or Wisconsin Alfalfa does bot end up in bags of Chaffhay and sold all across the country? You want to ban deer because you dont like the idea of it! If you want to ban CWD you had better be including everything that CWD is related to and can be shipped by. Again its the Bambi Syndrome not the disease that is doing nothing to animals across the country!

Thanks All. This was one of those unexpected deals. Hunted a great buck on the park over the weekend and got blown out of the tree Sunday morning with all that wind so i did some work around the camp and headed home early. Did some work around here for a few hours and then decided about 530 to take a walk out back and maybe take a doe for canning.. My kid decided to go along for the walk which was nice, Anyways my back Alfalfa field is still within few of the farm so we were still within view of the house. We figured we would just sit in the hedgerow being it was so late. We were not there 5 minutes and this guy stepped out of a nasty bedding area that i never go into as its in the middle of 700 acres of beans and corn. Just glad we had the 300Wby Mag with us this time as he was out there a ways. Far enough that i did not get a pass through but he folded up at the shot. A buddy had jumped 2 bucks early last week while duck hunting that one was a big 8 he said 120 range so i thought at the shot it was probably him but he says he knows for sure that buck was pushing 20 wide and just a ghost white rack with 4 on each side so when we walked up to him it was a little shock. I never run cams or bother them during the summer cept maybe some glassing so i never saw this guy before... Nice time to meet him for sure. Great Animal! Maybe i should have said North and West as my other property/farm is down bordering the park. I really love bow over gun when it comes to hunting and bucks like this are my passion when it comes to bow hunting and i dont want to screw myself but i will now say if i get an arrow in the buck i saw and am chasing every Fri,Sat,Sun on the park untill i get him or bust...I will not be putting this one on the wall...Man he is a brute but lives in a very rough area and with the rut coming on it wont be easy.

Sorry but they already tried that...Its a little tougher than the Safe Act>>>> LOL

You could cut and paste a dozen different research on CWD and get a dozen different thoughts. Bottom line is its big time double standards shown by the Govt against deer farms and high fence. They open gates on their CWD positive herds( Wind Cave) but they want to depopulate a deer farm when the same CWD shows up. Their CWD is thrown out into the wild for hunters to bring home untested...Ours are behind fence used for breeding and if ever harvested..Its tested! The point is that they say its ok to move the CWD prion all across the country in infected feed but not move a deer from a 5 plus years CWD free tested farm...Yeah thats playing on the same field>>>

This is a buck we took off the north property this weekend. 192 lb main frame 10 with a sticker on each side. 17 inch inside spread and 9 3/4 G2s and G3s. Will get a tape on it after drying period. This is the kind of deer I manage my property for, both north and south.

So whats your thoughts on me buying my winter Alfalfa from out west to feed my herd and infect my deer? By your statement its ok to move one item but not the other and the same damage is done. Hows that work? And to step it one further..No deer can be move from any farm in any state unless that farm is at least 5 years CWD free tested. Meaning 5 years worth of at least 3 animals killed and tested. Are they going to test the hay and corn before they ship it out? You say only deer farms eat that feed from CWD hot zones..Thats highly doubtful and remember when those cows or goats are eating that CWD prion positive feed they may not be getting CWD but they are putting that prion in the grond for up to 16 years for the next deer or elk to eat off that ground and they will be infected? make any sense to you?

Could not believe the number of dead deer on my way back this weekend from Letchworth. Just from Mt.Morris to the Thruway there were 12 smashed bodies of bucks and does. The deer are starting to do their thing i believe. Saw some great movement down there on the farm and then came home to take a nice 130ish 12pt on the north farm. Main frame 10 with 2 stickers with both sides G2,s and 3,s in the 9In range. Will try to get harvest pics up soon.

I like to hunt fresh mature buck sign so i went with the Lone Wolf. Being a smaller guy helps with the smaller seat and light weight. It can go up in remote areas fast when new buck sign shows up.

Ahhhh Welcome to the real world. You want confusing? Confusing is how can a Govmt say that CWD is going to decimate a herd if contacted and yet they have a herd of Elk at Wind Cave National park that has a 80% CWD positive rate in the animals that live behind that fence yet that state not once..But Twice had to cut the fence and have helicopters come in a run groups of animals out the last 2 years running? Sounds like the CWD positive herd is growing to me. Now this is the same CWD released out into the wild for hunters to kill animals and take home to their family that was found 2 years ago in an Iowa farm and they depopulated that herd and had to pay the tune of 1 million dollars of taxpayers money to do so. Now you tell me that this is not politics at its best to try and rid the landscape of the biggest threat to the DEC/DNR states yearly income?This has never been about a disease,CWD or anything else. This is a threat to them in its purist for because they see how big high fence has become in every state and they see the income generated within this industry. You can love it or hate it but the truth is this is all double standards and Govt trying to do to the same thing as the safe act was done in our state. They now have proof that CWD will not kill any amount of cervids, even in high percentages within herds so their next push will using humans as the scapegoat and the second they say that CWD could have even a speck of health issues to humans coming from CWD and being spread by whitetails...Well lets just say that high fence will be your least fear and worry when it comes to the Whitetail Deer.

I would also be interested in them both if still open?

This shows that they test less than a half of 1% of the deer population in Ny state. A farm in Ny state tests 100% of all deaths on the farm. If there is a problem who do you think will find it first regardless of where it came from? Ny state says dont feed the deer as it may spread a disease yet they fail to tell us about how they take all the untested road killed deer and throw them in a big compost pile in Cortland Ny and then take that compost and spread it in every rest areas flower boxes and beds along the Ny state thruway and givin to local farmers to spread their fields. Untested deer mind you with a prion that can live in the soils and plants for over 16 years to be picked up by any live animal and thus infected with CWD... Yup Politics at its best.

You want facts? The facts are these write ups never give you the WHOLE story! Lets use this farm/ranch. They find a positive in a healthy 300lbs 200 inch hunter killed buck that lives on a place that has a closed herd, meaning no new animals were brought on this farm for over 10 years. Now instead of letting them sell the 200 plus bucks during hunting season to paying hunters..And still be tested when killed..They lock them down for over 2 years and let them fester and then pay over a million dollars of taxpayers money to depopulate and do the same test that could have been done by hunter killed animals and saved the state a cool million? Thats the fact.

Yes doc but you see if you research this poliitical disease you will see that it is only like 85% correct when they do the live test after they have confirmed lymph node/brain stem positive on the animal. They say that is not accurate enough to legalize the test for use. Now mind you, i have been Tb testing my animals for years with a test that has proven itself to only be accurate up to the 60% area. many false positives and retesting with a different test to prove tb clean. Kinda strange to say the least. Bottom line is that the high fence haters and politics use a disease that has proven itself to do very little harm to any numbers of whitetails and none to humans as a tool to try to be rid of the ones that compete for their monies. A person hunts high fence they buy no tags from the state, Well you know about a state and money.

Ok lets throw this case out for you...What happens to the wild herds when CWD runs crazy threw the wild herds, they find that CWD may have something connected to CJD, Canada stops importing grains and Alfalfa from CWD positive states and they stop all overseas imports of grains to other countries from CWD positive states? But high fence farms and ranches have a live test to prove how clean their animals are? Where will our free range hunting go then?

Lets not forget that for many it takes a real deer to trip their trigger...Not the type of stuff folks find on that all those acres you speak of. Just look at the doe tags and what some places are doing because of deer over population..Ya see to many can ruin just as fast as not enough and the DEC cant get it right either way. Ny seasons are just as screwed up as the safe act. That wont change and if the past holds true it wont be long before self destruction. Just an fyi, I dont need or try to promote my farm or animals, they do that on their own but i will stand up to the lies that some spread to further their agendas.

First thing you need to do is learn what high fence is all about...Ya see, first there are farms and they raise the animals that get sold to high fence ranches that have large numbers of acres behind fence, thats where the hunting comes in. You do not hunt on a farm. How old are you? 20 something? If you have not been around long enough to see where hunting was and where it is then you will never get it. DEC ruining the herds, land..What little bit of good land left..will be ate up in high dollar leases and hunter numbers going down the tubes. Whats that leave you? an older group of hunters the will refuse to shoot the one and only spike buck on that state land if he can get it before all the others on there and will chose to either pay big money for a lease or go on high fence hunts and i can show you numbers proving just how much high fence has grown in Ny alone in the last 5 years. The trend will continue.

Because some feel that they think its n their rights to tell someone else how and where to spend their time. They dont like it so they will lie,cheat and steal to get their point across to anyone that may listen. Cwd is the same prion found in scrapie in sheep. Same disease,different animal...You let 100 sheep get scrapie's and die you will hear nothing....Now let that same prion kill a couple deer here and there and its front page newz...I like to call it the Bambi Syndrome! These same people that bitch about people killing deer behind fence are the first ones to go on a boar hunt behind wire but call that Ok because it was for the freezer. Yeah Whatever!!!!!

Well lets put it this way then..There are enough people in Ny state that hunt behind fence,on ranches, to wipe out the inventory of over 300 farms to the point that there is not an antlered buck to be found. Every state that has high fence ranches never have enough to supply the demand. Farmers in Ny state make upwards of 50 grand a year selling their stock to ranches. I dont really care if you like it or not and this agenda you say farms push is called business. The people decide if a business survives or not and i can promise you that fences are going up, not coming down! You come onto a post about CWD with no knowledge of the disease and spew your thoughts about high fence hunting. You just prove the facts that most people are catching on to and that is that CWD is only being used by guys like you to push their agenda that they dont like high fence hunting! When you get some knowledge of the post at hand then feel free to come back and speak about it. Until then...We all get your point that you dont like high fence hunting..We get it....