steve863

I haven't handled the Ruger American yet, but I really like what I see from pictures and the design. Has many features that are better than on the M77 and you can get it for a whole lot less. I don't think one can go wrong in getting that gun.

I think the problem with the Ruger M77 is the hard rubber recoil pad. I think that can be a problem with many guns. There are many aftermarket recoil pads that are pretty amazing. They can really tame the recoil to tolerable levels for anyone.

Exactly. Why in the world would anyone be looking to buy ONE good deer rifle and then choose the bottom of the barrel caliber as far as deer calibers go? Makes absolutely NO sense. I see absolutely NO reason why anyone other than the youngest of hunters would have issues with recoil from the traditional calibers in the .30-06 and .308 family of cartridges. It's not like you are getting hit by a truck shooting these guns. If gun recoil bothers someone, then maybe they shouldn't shoot or hunt, but take up knitting or tiddlywinks instead.

Oh man, now you're even telling us a .223 has more killing power than a 30/30? Honestly, I have better things to do than argue with you about this. You can think what you want.

Look at some Remington's and Savage's, Ruger American, Weatherby Vanguards, and you will most definitely come in under that total.

Don't want to hijack Doc's thread, but this has got to be the laugh of the month. A mallet over it's head will kill a deer, too, but it would be FAR from my first choice to kill a deer as would either the .222 or.223.

Good decision to step up above the .243. I'd stick with a .270, .30-06 or .308 for the many different cartridges available. As far as a rifle make and model, there are a ton of them out there right now that will shoot as well as you need and won't break your wife's bank account. Bolt-actions from Remington, Savage, Ruger, Browning, and several others will fit your bill. Just see what fits you the best, they will all work.

Congrats, nice deer! Your property is a goldmine, Burt!!!!

Cars were invented to get humans from one place to another. Guns were invented to kill, maim, dispatch the enemy in warfare. I tell you guys, you will NEVER convince modern society that guns are just some innocent little tool that no one should be fearful of in the hands of just anyone. Nope, just won't happen. You are free to dream however.

Probably the most sensible post I have ever read on the topic of gun control on this forum.

We are a lawsuit happy society, so I have no doubt there would be lawsuits. There are lawsuits already. Bloomberg sues gun dealers in other states. etc. I simply think if we initiate some safeguards it benefits us way more than if we are resistant to any sort of change. The republicans stuck to their same old song this past election too, and we all saw how far that got them. Same with the gun issue. Society is changing and the same old song won't do it for much longer.

I wouldn't be held responsible if I legally sold it. If the next guy sells it illegally then it's his problem. If he illegally sold it to someone who committed a murder with it, the seller should not be responsible for the murder, only for selling a gun illegally. That's all. Yeah, it may look like there is an extra burden on the legal gun owner here, but I honestly think that is the only way that legal guns (which again are ALL guns that leave the gun manufacturers plants) will stop falling into the hands of criminals. Nothing is foolproof, but this sure beats the laws we currently have. Plus this country already has uncountable amounts of legal and illegal guns already in circulation. At least it would show society that we law abiding gun owners are taking steps to prevent new guns from falling into the wrong hands. That is why I am for gun owners initiating something like this before the anti-gun crowd does stuff a hell of a lot worse. Just as in hunting, when we are told to police our own, we need to do it with gun ownership too.

True, no one would like high fees. I think in this computer age, the fees could be kept minimal if anything at all. I just think if we don't do something to make the system better than it currently is, we will lose out sooner than later. The never give an inch ideology will not work too much longer in modern day America, I can assure anyone of that.

I think it would. As I think everyone understands here, if all guns enter the market LEGALLY, we would then know exactly how it might have gotten into the wrong hands. If the gun is registered in my name, and I didn't legally sell it to someone else(after which the gun will be registered to someone else) or reported it stolen, exactly HOW did the criminal then get it?? This is where current laws are useless. Once the original purchaser buys the gun legally, he could pretty much legally sell it to anyone he wants without any consequences. So like I said in another post, WE the legal owners are the suppliers of guns to criminals whether we want to believe it or not. It is to our advantage to come up with ways that ALL gun transactions be legal transactions. I honestly believe that the majority of gun owners out there don't even take a minute to try to figure out how things can transpire with the current laws we have. Just listening to the NRA BS surely won't give people a good understanding.

Well, I did wear Burt's hunting coat and back tag that he left at the cabin, so if we were stopped, they'd think I was Burt.

Doe, you forgot to tell him that we did leave a small strip of backstrap for him in the freezer. It's the least we could for his generosity in letting us kill 4 deer last week on his property.

I would have no issue with registering them. In fact, if you bought a gun thru a gun shop within the last couple of decades they already ARE registered. Yeah, I know the story where some will say that background checks are NOT registration, but that is pretty much BS. The IRS could even find out who owns what. Heck, they have the right to audit any tax paying business, so how hard would it be for them to look thru gun dealers invoices where name of purchaser is on it along with the make and serial number of the gun sold? It's elementary accounting really. Of course this is something that the paranoid type would never realize by themselves, so they keep thinking that a true registration system is the beginning of the end for them. Just shows how dumb some people can be.

I'm just glad some of us can see the light with this here. Heck, we are all gun owners and want to continue to own them, but the reality is that there are tons of laws on the books, but what is illegal in one state is perfectly legal in another so in truth there are NO current laws that honestly work. We as gun owners should be at the forefront of thinking about and coming up with ways where things could work better. Being bullheaded and paranoid and thinking that ALL laws are bad won't work anymore. As we saw in this election, society is changing fast and won't be going back to how it once was any time soon. If we don't do something to help keep guns out of the hands of undesirables, then someone else will surely come in and take them away from all of us. So it's up to us to decide what we want here.

No. What I am saying is that some of the existing laws are pretty much worthless. There is very little difference to what is legal and what is illegal. Every gun that leaves a manufacturers plant enters the market LEGALLY, which means the first purchaser of it needs to undergo a background check. After that, it's pretty much a free for all who can buy them. That's how they get into the wrong hands. It is WE the legal purchasers who in one way or another put them into their hands. It's not like Ruger, S&W or any of the gun manufacturers are selling them to hoodlums from the back of their manufacturing plants. Something very WRONG with our current system. If we gun owners don't stand up and support some BETTER way of regulating who can and cannot buy guns, we definitely will lose our rights to own them. Nothing is of course is foolproof, but there just has to be a better way out there.

Not exactly true. Some of the recent shootings that made headlines like the movie theatre shooter, the Gabby Giffords shooter, and the Virginia Tech shooter ALL bought guns legally. Buying long guns LEGALLY in this country is pretty much as easy as buying candy. One can legally buy a long gun in a private sale without a background check, so honestly what's the difference between legal and illegal? Not a hell of a a lot.

mark3885, how does it look in there? Seeing any deer? LOL

I thought you are looking for some meat?? If you want meat and only have a limited time to hunt, then one needs to SHOOT!!!

Culver just PM's me to tell me that he will be the first paying customer of my contraption when I start my production run, just so he can send it to you. LOL

Maybe the Deerlogic software can help?

Maybe I should get a prototype made and then get a patent on it. Obviously there are people interested in it! LOL