steve863

Yup, it would benefit THEM and that's about the extent of it. All the benefitting the herd nonsense is nothing but a charade. Not being able to man up to the honest and simple facts that a blind man could see is what bothers me with all this stuff. You want to kill big bucks? Good. Just don't insult anyone's intelligence with phoney biology that clearly benefits trophy hunters more than it would benefit any deer herd.

I don't see why deer drives should bother anyone. Me and my uncle do drives where one of us sits while the other does some walking thru the property we hunt. It has worked out for us a good many times actually.

Punch, I have absolutely NOTHING against you letting a 1 1/2 year old walk if you want to. That is up to you. I don't think anyone should expect the same from everyone. You are making YOUR decision, others will make THEIRS.

Because it's not all about killing a big buck and no one is guaranteeing us a deer whether we are meat hunters or trophy hunters. We are issued a hunting license to hunt. The rest is up to us. You are equating "fair" as to being able to kill a decent buck. That is asking too much in my opinion. The state issues you a license to kill a buck, they aren't making any guarantees to you on how big that buck will be or even if there will be ANY buck at all. Someone mentioned entitlement in the way you AR proponents think in the other thread. I am starting to think they were 100% correct. You guys think that your hunting license should guarantee that the big bucks will be out there. I've also got some oceanfront property in Arizona for you if you really think that will ever be the case!

As I said before, you guys can shoot whatever you want. Eventhough I think your ideologies are most definitely centered on antlers I have NO right to tell you that you can't shoot trophy deer only, mature deer only, or any other kind of deer that would make you happy. The question, however is are the rest of us getting the same courtesy from you guys? It's really pretty simple and that's what it all boils down to here.

If you want to wait until a buck is 10 1/2, arthritic, and without teeth, that is your choice. I cannot tell you to shoot anything else if you don't want. At the same time, you can't tell us what to shoot either if we are perfectly happy with it, and THERE is the catch to all this. You guys can continue to horn hunt with or without putting restrictions on everyone else, but NO that doesn't seem to be enough for you guys. You want everyone else to believe exactly what you do and follow the rules you want implemented. You seem to be loving this "elitist" label, since you take pride in killing big bucks only, but I can assure you that it impresses a lot fewer people than you may think!

Yeah, and how about those hunters that didn't draw any doe tags and there have been quite a few such hunters in recent years? Should they pass up all bucks that don't measure up to your standards also? Why are they even wasting there time hunting? If they simply want to LOOK at deer, then they don't need to purchase a hunting license at all and don't need to wait until hunting season to do it. Sorry, but your analogy of killing young male children has to be the sickest attempt I ever heard to justify your positions here. It has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic at hand here. Unbelievable!

No Elitist is not the word I would use. I would classify you as a hunter who cares about horns above anything else in hunting. Your post proves this. The definition of Elite is "a superior member of a social group" according to my dictionary. Maybe you fellas think of yourselves as superior for thinking that everyone should shoot big bucks only, but we sure don't.

How does letting him grow another year make it any better? Sure it sounds better to those who want a bigger buck to shoot, but does it really help the deer population? We are simply applying our self-serving desires (wanting to kill the biggest buck possible) to deer biology here. You guys try to paint it all as benefitting the herd when in reality it's all for self-serving reasons. We all do things for self-serving reasons, but at least admit it. I kill deer because I like venison. You kill them because you like big antlers. That's all it boils down to. Lets not try to kid ourselves or anyone else that letting a deer walk for another year will benefit the deer population in general, because it won't. They have managed to survive over the millenium quite nicely and I wouldn't be surprised if they out-survive the human species once it's all said and done. We humans just think we know it all when it comes to ourselves and the animal world yet historically we have screwed up just about everything we touched. I for one have more trust in mother nature than I do any human.

So this is surprising to you? I'm glad you are finally realizing otherwise. Maybe you guys should talk to more hunters and not only your close knit groups who think the same way as you.

So go ahead and prove to us that the DEC is actually concerned with age structure?? Did they implement AR's in those several units because of a concern for age structure OR because some vocal sportsman's club convinced them that everyone and their uncle hunting these units was pro AR's? My failed logic is actually the reality of it all, while yours is nothing other than you guys wanting to put restrictions on what others can shoot to hopefully make it easier for yourselves to shoot the bigger ones that you guys seem to think are so important. Sorry to have to tell you this, but your logic carries absolutely NO more value than anyone else's here.

Believe it or not I tried BBQing some backstrap for the very first time this past weekend. I never tried it because I always thought it might dry out too much on a BBQ since venison is so lean, but I was pleasantly surprised. I was a bit hesitant trying the bacon wrap method, but it sure does do the trick in helping to keep it moist. It was more tender than any darned steak you could buy! As others said, the trick is not to overcook it. Well done doesn't work with venison, that is for sure.

Age structure never has been a problem with the deer herd. They multiply nicely no matter what the age structure is. The importance of age structure has little to do with anything other than it makes horn hunters think that they will have an easier time seeing and hopefully killing bigger bucks. Got news for you fellas, as far as the state is concerned, the age of the buck when it gets gunned down is of little importance to them. They need deer killed, and hunters kill them. The age of any individual deer that gets killed or remains alive means NOTHING in the scheme of things. If a hunter is happy killing a yearling buck, the more power to him. As others have said, many hunters hunt in areas where a hunter may see one buck an entire season. Why should he pass it up if he doesn't want to and would be happy with it?? Just to make YOU guys happy and let the deer live on so that YOU might have an opportunity to gun it down next when it might be carrying bigger horns?? You want to take this persons hunting rights away so that YOU guys can have better hunting for yourselves next year. That is pretty much all what passing the yearling buck will do. Not a good enough reason in my opinion.

Can it be used as a deodorant? It already comes in a stick. Deer might follow you all the way home if you slather it under your arm pits!

Lets try this.

Hmmm, I guess the picture I posted isn't showing properly.

I reckon we won't be getting any hunting equipment for Christmas this year. Looks like Santa wasn't wearing his seatbelt either.

Geeze, even steve863 got past the Ted bashing and talked about the message in this one. Is he starting to Mellow ? I can start bashing him if you guys miss it so much? Honestly, I never have bashed the guy for his personal indiscretions. I only bash him about things that pertain to hunting and how it looks to the average guy on the street.

Steve, I think what you say carries some truth... it is a reality that it happens in the deer woods but then again it may also be true that some have not lost one yet. i will say i have hunted with some guys before who will hit a deer and say "Oh i clean missed" and when i come over they say why are you looking? my reply is i just want to make sure... i have found blood before from a guy who claimed he flat missed. I try to exhaust every avenue in the recovery of that animal. we as hunters owe that to that animal and the land we hunt. i do whatever it takes to track that wounded deer that anyone in my camp shoots. i do agree with steve that some hunters just DO NOT know if they missed or hit a deer sometimes and ive seen some that are VERY fast to say "i missed". when in some instances its the complete opposite. You are probably right, some probably haven't lost one yet, but these people maybe have hunted 5, 10 or with luck maybe even 20 years. I find it hard to believe that anyone who has hunted close to 50 years has lost none or only one deer. $#!+ can happen while hunting, and for someone not to experience it during 50 years of hunting is most remarkable in my honest opinion.

I tell you, I find it almost darned hard to believe when someone tells me that they hunted almost 50 years and never lost a deer. Throw in bowhunting and I find it even harder to believe. This must be some sort of record if it's true. As others have said, if you hunt long enough it will happen even to the best marksmen out there. I also wonder if everyone is always 100% sure that they didn't actually wound a deer? I've had a couple run a ways without spilling a drop of blood, only to find them dead in a heap. I could have just as easily given it up for a complete miss and never found it if I wasn't persistent.

For all those that never missed with their first shot. I would bet you guys would be fumbling all over yourselves if you somehow missed a big buck with your first shot and he was still within range after the smoke cleared. I am quit sure you'd be shoving that second load down the barrel quicker than I could say "Jackie Robinson". I doubt you'd just let him walk on, that's for darn sure. LOL

I would definitely agree with what you say. I see NO difference between baiting and food plots. I am not against food plots, but simply don't see the difference between them and baiting. The food plot proponents will tell you that it's NO different than a hunter hunting over a cornfield, but in all probability the corn was planted there for human or animal consumption and the hunter just happens to be hunting there unlike the food plot people who spend hours and hours planting it and spend lots of money buying it specifically FOR deer. They put it out FOR the deer just like the guy who throws out apples, corn, grain or whatever on the ground to bait them. Again a kill will be a kill, no matter how we make it. I just find it funny when people try justifying things that really don't have any justification.

That's Ted Nugent for you! Many hunters love him and consider him a great orator. I guess this is one example. LOL

Yup, I'm one of the haters, but I will stick to the subject at hand. I agree that too much emphasis can be put on hunter ethics. What is ethical to some, may not be to others and in the scheme of thing all that matters is that we don't do anything stupid enough to jeopardize the safety of others and ourselves. We all go out to try to kill something for whatever reason that makes us want to kill something. We can try to philosophize the killing and how it should be done all we want, but the end result ( a killed animal) is all the same whichever way we go about it.

I'd have to admit the first deer I shot with a bow a good many years ago I took 3 shots at, and I practiced a good deal with the bow before the opportunity presented itself. I overestimated the range the first two shots and shot over the doe. She bounced away with each missed shot and then came back to the exact spot she was standing the first time. Shot number 3 connected with a fatal hit. I surely wasn't going to stop shooting at her since she was still within bow range. If you miss, try again if the animal gives you the opportunity. Sometimes crazy stuff can happen if you are experienced or not.