steve863

I think a phone call would be better than a letter. He would get a better feel for you and who you are over the phone than in a letter that he may or may not want to take the time to read. Plus, you will most likely know his answer right off over the phone instead of waiting forever with a letter.

I don't own my own hunting land so I don't plant food plots on it. We manage to kill deer without them. Since we kill deer without them I don't think I'd ever waste my time planting them. I don't have anything against anyone who does hunt over them either, but I think food plots are much like AR's and QDM's where hunters claim that it benefits the herd, but in reality it mostly benefits the hunter since he IS using it for hunting purposes. As Geno pointed out in the other thread, we just need to be honest about it. We could probably count the people on one hand who plant food plots without any hunting intentions behind it. I have no doubt that one would have way better chances of seeing a moose or bald eagle in NY state than one of these non-hunter food plot planters. Heck, maybe even a mountain lion! LOL

I have a whole case I am willing to share! Old Man Fight!!! Carefull, you two old farts might break a hip or something swinging your canes around like that. I got $5 on Doc. LOL! And it's a proven fact that elderly people who do break a hip end up dead in a year or two of other health related complications! So fellas please be careful! The rest of us don't want to lose such entertainment on this website!! Right.. but what if one of them had Blaze Orange on and the other didn't.. would it save their life then? Yes it would. If Doc and Bubba had it out and clobbered the daylights out of each other where both were rendered senseless on the ground, the paramedics would most likely treat the guy in blaze orange first since he was more visible than the other guy lying in the bush in full camo.

I have a whole case I am willing to share! Old Man Fight!!! Carefull, you two old farts might break a hip or something swinging your canes around like that. I got $5 on Doc. LOL! And it's a proven fact that elderly people who do break a hip end up dead in a year or two of other health related complications! So fellas please be careful! The rest of us don't want to lose such entertainment on this website!!

I associate the word yuppie with young "urban" professional. I have seen and worked with my share of these in NYC and can't say that I have come across any that wanted to go deer hunting in a fenced in area or any other setting. There may be some of these "urban" professionals in other cities who want to get a crack at hunting, but I sure never came across one in NYC. They are willing to try most other sports or pastimes, but hunting is surely NOT on their list from what I have observed. Most of the hunters in and around NYC are everyday working guys who would have to save long and hard for an expensive hunt of this nature.

What I'd like to know is exactly where are these hunting yuppies?? Yuppies play tennis, go skiing, kayaking, mountain climbing, but I'll be darned if I see them going deer hunting. These fenced in places cater to folks with rural roots who have made some money. Some of them use this money to buy an easy hunt where an easy trophy is possible so that they then can have something to show off to their friends. They are the type that think money can buy anything.

I don't think that anyone should discount the fact that there are FEWER hunters out there these days. With more hunting pressure in the old days one was bound to see fewer bucks. I don't hunt very far from these AR units. The number of people out hunting these days is nothing compared to the way it was 30 or more years ago. Land access is a critical reason why fewer people are out hunting these regions. Years ago bucks were pushed into hard to reach places. Those hunters who went into these places had a chance of getting them. Those who hunted near roads didn't see squat! These days there are less and less reasons for deer to move into these hard to reach places with fewer hunters pushing them, thus people in many places are seeing more deer AND bucks. To give credit to AR's alone is not looking at the whole picture of how things are today compared to yesteryear.

If it's a T/C barrel and can accept 209 primers I wouldn't have any reason to think it wasn't good unless the barrel was abused or not taken care of by the prior owner. T/C makes good products and I surely wouldn't worry that it doesn't have one of those newer easier to remove breech plugs. It will most likely shoot just the same. My uncle has a T/C Encore muzzleloader and is no doubt a good gun, but it surely weighs a lot more than other muzzleloader out there these days.

I am not offended by this either. It stereotypes hunters as being drinkers and slobs. Not like hunting doesn't have its fair share of both. In every stereotype, be it racial or whatever there is probably a good deal of truth in it. Some people get offended while others can see the truth in it and can understand the humor. Heck, its not like this is the first time hunting and drinking has been connected. It's been a hunter stereotype for LONG time, and it's not like someone just made it up out of the blue!

I'd say you have a 50% chance of being correct with your bet here. I have no doubt that the brown its down guys pull plenty of shananigans, but on the average I don't think the holier than thou guys that are for AR's are one bit better. Hunting has a good LONG history of clowns of all shapes and sizes ruining its reputation for those who do go about things within the rules.

Yeah, there are some who can never have enough. That surely is a good story on how the trespasser was the one busting the guy. Now, the $64,000 question here would be whether this idiot was for AR's or not!! LOL Maybe the DEC officers should poll the guys they bust on it?? Might actually be a more accurate stat than we've been getting around here lately.

No doubt, it happens all the time. Heck, a few years ago the state even sanctioned this when they allowed people to transfer over DMP permits. I always had a hunch that this was a money making scheme by DEC more than anything else. Just think about it. People get family members who they know will never hunt to take safety courses and then purchase hunting licenses every for them just to get those extra doe permits to transfer over to them. How could it be a bad deal for the DEC's revenue??

I wouldn't doubt this statistic, but if 100,000 bucks get killed in NY, 5% would be 5000. Maybe one of these 5000 will get an extra year to live and will cross paths with the hunter that wants that bigger buck. I can't see how a one buck rule can hurt.

Yes, this would be a simple solution that shouldn't upset anyone. In fact, there shouldn't be one AR proponent out there against such a rule.

And they won't get out of the truck and get their boots muddy to load up the deer either. They will send for another vehicle with a scooper type device attached to scoop it up for them!

You got to love them Texans!! They have got to be the greatest and laziest hunters on the face of the earth. Who other than a Texan can come up with QDM and hunting vehicles like in the link below? And it's all in the name of making deer hunting as easy as possible for themselves! http://whitetailtrucks.com/

That's easy enough to agree with, but the guy who gets shot will probably be dead or seriously injured and he or his heirs will be suing the pants off the shooter who is now in a mess up to his ears! If someone wants to climb a rock face without any safety equipment and falls 1000 feet no one else will be involved or implicated. Easy enough to understand. The guy went looking for trouble and found it the hard way. A guy getting shot because he didn't wear B/O HAS implicated someone else BIG time. That is the difference here. One guys stupidity most definitely does have a serious and direct effect on someone else here. Same reason smoking laws in public places were implemented. It's not so much to stop the smoker from smoking. Why would the state want people to quit with the tax dollars they get on cigarettes? It was put in effect to stop the smoker from harming others who had NO legal legs to stand on to prevent others from smoking in enclosed quarters.

Please explain this to us?? In order to use any other "either sex" tag if one doesn't have a dmp means you need to hunt either with bow or muzzleloader in their separate seasons. The vast majority of hunters in NYS are gun hunters in the regular season. So gun hunters without dmp's now need to hunt with bow or muzzleloader to get a doe instead of shooting that 1 1/2 year old buck you guys don't want them to shoot, right? If they already don't own these weapons they now need to invest in and practice with different weapons just so you guys can have a bigger buck to shoot next year? Who exactly is getting the shorter end of the stick here? You guys or those hunters??

Larry, what you write makes a good deal of sense. Of course the AR/QDM proponents keep telling us to be men and let the little ones walk and shoot does instead just because the QDM wizards keep telling them to. Pretty soon there just might not be anything left to shoot if we implement all their brilliant ideas! Of course then they will say it was us "brown and it's down" people who were the cause of it!! LOL

And mother nature has been taking care of things quite nicely before any human put together the alphabet so that they could then write a science book! I will surely doubt that man knows best on all issues including this one.

Doe permits have been issued by the state for a good many years. Some areas issue more of them, some fewer and other areas none at all. We already have female deer taken out with these doe permits. We still want answers to how AR's would improve deer health? Telling us to read the stuff available from the QDM groups is a cop out in my opinion.

We have seen enough cut and pasting from QDM sources on these threads. I want answers in the AR proponents OWN words, just like we are asking questions in our OWN words. And as I said we are talking about herd health without looking at it from a hunting point of view. Again, real simple question.

What don't you understand? AR/QDM proponents keep telling us how it's all supposed to be so much better for the herd health, so tell us exactly how this is so without having self-serving HUNTING reasons as the primary motive behind it or part of the answer here? Very simple question in my opinion.

Pygmy you made really good points and are asking a good honest question. Now I dare the AR proponents to give you a good honest answer. An answer that compares a herd without AR's and a herd with AR's. And to be fair we need take the hunting equation out of the answer. In a herd where hunting would NOT be allowed, exactly how would AR's benefit the health of the herd? After all AR/QDM proponents are interested in deer health above anything else, right?? I have said time and time again that AR's have been implemented to benefit hunters MORE than they will ever benefit the deer. I want to hear answers on exactly how AR's benefit a herd without having our self-serving hunting reasons (whatever they may be) involved in any of it? I am all ears!

The BS that spews out of your mouth is phenomenal. Stop insulting our intelligence and admit your a brown its down man. Regardless of what you think, there are a lot of hunters who practice QDM, want AR, and the AR zones will expand and NY state will eventually come up with a state wide deer management plan for area's that need it. Again, YOUR area might not need any assistance, while other area's do. So what is your problem with what I stated? The truth hurts sometimes, don't it?