MountainHunter

There in lies one of the challenges with all of this. How many of our societies civil liberties will be given up to effectively address these issues.

Thanks Ants, I respect your opinion but I don't agree with your yes answers. I am not sure what kind of battle you are anticipating.

WNY I am not sure which question you are referring to? If it is the illogical thought process you refer to I don't agree. Fact has very little to do with perception. If a gun looks menacing or a clip looks menacing. They are perceived to be menacing. I know that violent video games aren't real, that violent television shows are not real, that horror movies or graphic movies aren't real. That paint ball tournaments aren't real and the list goes on and on and on. If we want or expect the media to change what are we going to do ? Nothing?

Ants I have asked the same few questions a number of times now. Please go back to previous posts of mine. I'm on an iPhone and I have big thumbs.

These are all contributing factors to a culture. I made reference to that in my initial post. Seemingly the inability to make distinctions between what is reality and what is not is contributing to this overall desensitization among a certain segment of our society.

Doc, Give me some yes or No's! I read your responses. I am willing to pursue this issue differently are you? If doesn't seem as if you can let go of the same old, same old. Instead of creating paragraphs of evasiveness lets start with simple yes or no answers to my few simple questions. We all know the answers are no. If that can't be acknowledged you are not being honest or open. There is no where to go from there.

My comments havie nothing to do with feeling good they have to do with contributing to changing a particular culture. There is a massive desensitazation in our country relating to violence. Even things like this conversation are examples of what we are dealing with. We are aggressive, direct and often times insulting with people we don't even know. We need to have an open mind and think outside the box. We should be taking initiative, talking to police departments, to town governments and saying we are responsible citizens what efforts or programs can we involve ourselves in that would help our communities. I would expect the general public is growing weary of it's not us! It's not us!

You have not answered my questions Doc. You have just expressed your feelings and cliche's about our second amendment rights. Do we need high capacity clips to hunt with? Do we need high capacity clips to defend ourselves with? Do we need paramilitary weapons to hunt with or defend ourselves with. Confine your answers to yes or no and we will go from there. Then we can talk about the cultural and societal implications of these things.

I will comment as I choose to and I will call it as I see it ! I am humble and don't appreciate or care for boastfulness. I don't disagree with you but I know where she is coming from. As is often the case here and on other forums we have no idea with whom we are speaking to. Are they good responsible hunters are they solid citizens? We have no idea and yet we engage in sometimes heated conversations with them. That is generally why I take a pass on most conversations of this nature. I believe that we need to be involved and to be participating in things that help to change the direction of gun violence in this country. We have to be looking at any thing that influences culture and societal perceptions.

I knew that my comments would fly over the head or through the ears of many here. I said I completely understood that it is not the weapon but the person behind it. The key aspect of my comments have to do with the cultural considerations and the perception of these weapons. Not the technical reality of whether or not these weapons are that different than our Remington 7400's or Browning BARs. As is most often the case no one as of yet has answered my questions but have in turn asked me questions that feed your own feelings or Agenda's. Do we need high capacity clips ton defend ourselves and our families or to hunt? Do we need paramilitary style weapons to hunt with? Do these clips and weapons serve any positive purpose in the hunting community or in the home defense community?

About as much as making a huge generalization and demeaning women! If you are going to moderate hold everyone to the same level of accountability. Any good hunter knows exactly what she was saying.

Not that I expect this to do any good or to even be considered by some or many who read it here. Our country has a serious problem and we all need to be involved in the solution. It is a very complex problem and there are no easy answers. The people committing this horrific acts of mass murder are not what any of us would commonly associate as " the typical criminal element" they are not going to mugg us or break in to our home etc. They are plotting to kill as many people as they possibly can. This is a cultural phenomenon and it is complex. There are many things that are contributing to it. Likely, in no specific order, media sensationalism and preoccupation, a culture of excepted violence with video games, movies and television programs, the lack of security and employment stability for so many of us, the incredible social and academic pressure that is put upon our children, the necessity of both parents working and the lack of parenting in many cases as a result of it. These things are likely just scratching the surface of the many contributing factors. To me it seems that our problem is one of stress and pressure and an unhealthy society. We need to be part of the solution. We need to be honest with ourselves and a whole lot more sensitive to the issues at hand. We can't continue to go it's not us, it's not us and grab our guns. This is a cultural/mental health issue but we need to contribute to the long term resolution of this. We don't need high capacity clips or magazines to hunt with or defend ourselves or our families with, we don't need paramilitary type rifles to hunt with. These are examples of things that contribute toward a culture of violence. I completely understand that it is the person not the weapon that does the damage but these things are contributing toward a perception that isn't healthy or necessary. The same legal AR that someone is using to hunt coyotes with is being used by neo nazi groups or white supremacist groups in simulated training exercises. ( I use this as an example) We need to take a stand in regard to things like this, to distance ourselves from the GI Joe wannabe's and extremest groups so we are not linked with that type of mentality. I suggest before you have a knee jerk reaction here and grab your guns and use every pro gun cliche you have ever heard you think about what I have said. I am not anti gun, not a liberal by any means. Life time avid hunter, business owner, 6 year board member of my county's mental health association, involved parent etc. We need to be part of the solution with these issues. We can't just bury our heads in the sand. These events are occurring far to regularly, it needs to bother us to the extent that we are willing to do something about it!

Take the high road! And then Subtly torment the $:&t out of him For the rest of his life. Karma can be nasty!

Hopefully a day or two more. Likely with the muzzleloader.

I am hoping to get out a day or two before it all shuts down. Probably with the Muzzleloader but could be with Bow or Crossbow.

I live in 3a and hunt in 3c and 3j as well. I am seeing bigger bucks than I have in my 30 plus years of hunting. Bucks in the 120s are routinely being taken. 140 inch and 150 inch deer are being taken. I saw the biggest buck of my life locally last week. AR's have every thing to do with this.

That's an absolute steal on that rifle.

What more do you need to know than, LOADED GUN IN AN UNLOCKED CAR= STUPID?

I have done it quite a bit over the years. To break myself of target panic I did it a lot years ago. My opinion after many years of shooting is that a calm and relaxed body and mind are the keys to our best shooting. Blind bale practice is a great routine to assist with that.

A coin and a gun? Yes they are similar! The bottom line is if you leave a loaded gun in plain view in an unlocked vehicle in a residential neighborhood where there there are kids playing and coming and going past said vehicle you are an idiot. Now you spin your trespass theory and property rights theory any way you want. Better yet get a bunch of eight to ten year olds together and explain it to them. Let's see if they understand. I know bad parenting right if their curiosity gets the better of them. The ones who have good parenting would come home to their folks and say you know Mr so and so is an a-- hole he left a loaded gun in an unlocked car in plain view a curious kid could have messed with it and killed themselves or another person.

" I imagine that argument could be made". How do you think this schmo would have made out if tried by a jury of his peers in the event a child was hurt? The greater the potential harm the greater the responsibility. In the context of this situation the guy was incredibly irresponsible. There is the law and there is common sense. Common sense was definitely lacking.

I have been interested in them because of their supposed smooth draw. I have kept a 2002 ultra tec because of how smooth the draw is. Because of shoulder issues I cannot comfortably draw a bow that has the draw really heavy or loaded up at the beginning of the draw cycle. I am looking for smooth all the way through not just after the cams roll over. How are the Elites in this regard?

Unfortunately nothing to trade. If someone has a 3J that they don't believe they will use I would appreciate being considered for its use.

3c yes. 3j no.