nyantler

I think in the case of the fellas at our camp.. they like being part of the gang and this was their way of being able to get some time to hang with the guys. I think the beer is more attractive to them than the deer..lol

+1

I am still a firm believer that the best way to get hunters to pass on younger bucks is through education about it's benefits to both the herd and hunter... 20 years ago when I started introducing the concept to hunters here in NY... I might as well have called their mother a dirty name... they thought I was out of my mind (which I may be, but for other reasons).. today we see more and more hunters voluntarily passing on young bucks than ever before... it takes a lot longer that way, but it doesn't piss off the hunters that need to kill a buck every year at all costs like a mandate does.

It is definitely not for everyone... I even think there are hunters that still do it, but could take it or leave it. We have a couple guys at hunting camp that probably would never hunt if we didn't have a camp for them to come to... they just aren't comfortable hunting on their own...

I've never agreed with the explaination that "there are no adult bucks, so rather than go without I took a young buck"... think about it... you're not seeing any older bucks, so you're willing to take out a future adult buck by taking a yearling... it really makes no sense... and it's one of the reasons that most hunters give for why they haven't began a self imposed AR. Its just like the definition of insanity.." doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" or in this case.. doing the same thing over and over and getting no results..lol I try never to care what other hunters are doing when it comes to passing on young bucks... I believe that if I let a young buck walk I just increased his chance of survival and the possibility of seeing him again as an adult buck... If I shoot him.. there is a 100% chance that he will not become an adult buck.

That's a valid concern.. but I am of the thought that if the AR programs work as they have worked elsewhere in the country... we will be gaining hunter in the future with the availabilty of multiple age classes and greater numbers of bucks... I do believe that there may be a period in the beginning of any AR program here in NY where hunter numbers may drop slightly.. at least in those WMU's.. but they will rebound again once the benefits start to become more apparent... I do however share your concern of whether the DEC is up to the task of being able to properly apply the other elements needed for AR's to be successful.

There is no record that I see of DEC restricting harvest in NY... when I started hunting there was a 1 buck rule, and party permits for 1 doe... today you can take at least 2 bucks and in most DMU's at least 2 does and the season is nearly twice as long... and yes it IS their "business" to limit or alter harvest as they deem necessary. You only have the right to shoot what they say you can shoot... hunters in NY have never had it so good... so where is the problem?

Yeah I think you're right about people being in favor of a broad brush application of AR's... I pretty much am of the same thought as you and for the same reasons. However, having witnessed time and time again how AR's have enhanced the hunting experience.. I don't see there coming a time when there won't be ample opportunity to harvest at least one deer in any area of NY... areas with limited habitat or deer density will always be tougher hunting... hence the need for some thought out decisions before the DEC adopts any management plans for any WMU. I have always been of the belief that, in this day and age, lack of success for most hunters has more to do with hunting style and ability than populations and restrictive game laws. I will concede that the first few years of an AR program are usually a little lean for some hunters, especially in areas with low DMP's or lower deer density.

That's a great point... if everyone is for it .. why do we need to mandate it? Maybe because those 67% are the hunters that don't kill a buck each year and think AR's will solve that problem...lol... I still don't understand the opposing something that you already practice... maybe opposed to the mandate but not the concept. Then there are some that oppose statewide mandate of AR's, but are okay with testing the water like they have in some WMU's. I thinking that if they weren't being well recieved in those areas they would have been dropped.

Of course you don't believe it.. because you don't want to.. you don't even know enough about it to make an educated decision... all you know is that you don't like the DEC telling you what to do... although they have been telling you what to do since you started hunting... they have already been telling you for years when you can take deer, where you can take deer, how many you can take, with what weapon you can take them with, etc. etc. Before any of these rules came into existence people with your thought process nearly eradicated the entire population of whitetails in NYS. I'm sure that's another thing you didn't know. All he is saying is that there are hunters that should give it a good look before jumping the gun... Have you ever hunted in an AR area for any length of time? Have you taken any time to look at AR's and how they have worked all across the country? Is it that you just don't want to believe the hunters on here that have told you how it is working in their area? What is it about AR's that you don't like?

I have never gotten into the trail cam thing... mainly because I rarely hunt the same place twice... but I do love seeing the great stuff that many of you have captured on film. Even cooler when you capture a buck live on cam that you harvest later.

I think we all start hunting for a much different reason than why we do it later in life. It's kind of an evolution... I started because my Dad loved to hunt and it was something we could enjoy together... as a kid sometimes killing a deer was an ego thing... trying to prove yourself as an accomplished hunter... as you get older you realize all the other reasons that you enjoy it... the killing has become secondary for me.. and the ego thing seems a bit silly now...where many other experiences that haven't resulted in harvesting a buck are some of the best stories to share.

Looks like you have a few decent bucks there... nice pics.

LOL.. kids! You aren't old enough to know what type of guy I am or to know how to screw with me. Shouldn't you be texting someone now anyway?

That is definitely a downside of the 3 on a side rule... it still allows hunters to hunt close to the rule instead of promoting shooting only mature bucks... One can't argue much with the stats though ( if they are reliable)... less yearlings are being harvested in AR areas and from what I have heard from hunters in those areas they are seeing more mature bucks in general... so, although not perfect, they seem to be accomplishing their objective.

Unfortunately your exactly right... my comment was about what it is suppose to be not how it is. If I was speaking about NY I would not have used the words "good management program".

Okay then maybe not to offend anyone... because you seem quite offended by the truth. I must have struck a nerve somewhere with you.. since your original BS post you have yet to post another reasonable argument for your position on AR's... just that you're a meat hunter.. well so are most every hunter here... all you've done is name call because you have a hard time with facts and have none of your own to back up your position. I haven't really stated what I "think"... I've only given you proven facts and you don't like them... all your whining isn't gonna change that... it's impossible to believe that anyone can have a reasonable intelligent conversation with someone who thinks breaking the law will be the answer to mandatory AR's... you're exactly the type of hunter New York doesn't need... so go whine somewhere else.

Heard that one a while ago... funny stuff!!

Killing does can give you less deer... but thats usually what any good management program is looking for if they're giving out a lot of permits. Deer population should be controlled based on available habitat not on how many deer hunters want to see for hunting purposes.

I know.. sometimes the truth is so hard to except... I'll try to be more politically correct from now on so nobody gets their feelings hurt.

Funny.. it's okay for you to make that statement and you're not a condescending dink...lol... I agree with you by the way.. glad you said it instead of me.. now you won't have to get all upset.

I expected you to have trouble with the truth... lets talk about rocket science instead... neither of us know anything about that... would make for an intelligent conversation, I'm sure we'd both learn a lot.

It seems that many of you hunters that are against AR's do not have a good grasp on how deer management works... I'm not sure where you are getting your information on whitetails... but much of it is incorrect... in order to be able to discuss an issue properly you should at least know something about that topic... in the past there wasn't much on whitetail biology or deer management available to hunters, but today there is a ton of info out there. Educate yourself on the subject... it will make it so much easier to have an intelligent conversation... having differences in opinion is great... thats how we get a good debate going to discuss these kinds of issues... its not about changing minds, but more about getting intelligent info from both sides to better understand or to find common ground.

You need to contact the DEC and get an explaination for why they are limiting doe permits in your area...

SOOO true!!!