nyantler

I don't think he's saying that at all.. I think we all know that.. meat hunter or not... most every hunter is on the look out for antlers. And even the anti AR fellas and gals still would pull the trigger on a bigger buck if confronted with the choice of small buck, doe, fawn or big buck all standing together in the field. It's what most hunters talk about and more than just most hunters dream about.. no matter what they might say. Besides... all deer have meat on them don't they? I am a meat hunter too.. I just like mine with a side order of bigger antlers whenever possible.

I think the sampling is larger than you think with the number of taxidermists and butchers visited each year... most that I have spoken with have had a visit from someone seeking numbers... I was actually kind of amazed to find out that they actually frequent both spots to gain data. Not amazed that they should , but more that they actually did.

She doesn't look all that healthy to me. Look at the mark on her front knee area.. looks kind of mangey to me if you look closely... almost like the hair is gone on the sides of her stomach.

Yeah thats where doe take becomes very important... the DEC needs to do their homework to make sure they keep a balanced population... so far they haven't led me to believe that they're completely up to the task... we'll see.

I'm speaking of a different sense of safety... not the kind of haven from pressure type of safe... but more just a place where they have always felt a sense of calmness and the ability to sense danger easily... kind of like their own little paradise where they feel in complete control. It my even be an unconscious sense... definitely something that only they understand... and probably passed down generations to the younger deer that follow mom into such places. I have come across only a few near my home, but have noticed more in the ADK's.. I'm guessing because of it's vastness and lack of human pressure. I have always found it intriguing as well...

Like phade says... deer feel safer in the open on very windy days... the woods becomes to noisy and becuse the wind is so strong their noses have trouble as well... it makes them nervous... the bigger bucks head for the middle of the open field...usually as far from the edges as possible where they can see 360 degrees... leaving plenty of distance from the edge to get the advantage of a head start on any predator that might enter the field... a very windy day could be a lucky day for a rifle hunter if he can steady his sights.

It is possible that the DEC has help from outside sources such as sportmans groups and club that do agings on buck killed in their groups... there are even biologists that frequent processors and age the bucks that come in... it still is only a fraction of what is taken but statistical formulas help. Although not an exact science it would be accurate enough to see any trend towards improvement in the buck age structure.

I think I qualify... although I'm not sure whether or not I'm on the idiot list.. that is entiely possible..

The most obvious reason that deer would use a spot like this is because for some reason it is safe to them... the clue for me is when you say that the deer enter and leave from all directions... Because deer are always aware of their surroundings and safety, it is very uncommon for deer to not enter and exit in pre-determined locations. They must know something about the area that hunters don't and it must make them feel safe... the fact that many deer frequent the area instead of just an occasional passer by... leads me too the same conclusion.. Why it is a safe spot for them?... that is the mystery. Possibly because of it being a hard area to hunt for the reasons you have stated.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/arsummary11.pdf

I agree.. but I also think that the number of hunting accidents isn't large enough to think that mandatory orange would necessarily drop those numbers significantly... especially since some of the hunter accidents still involve hunter orange being present (about 5%)... and because there is no data supporting that any of the accidents absolutely would have been avoided had the hunters been wearing orange we therefore can not conclude that mandatory hunter orange would change those numbers.. "I give that the same credibility that I would give any other unfounded, unproven, and unsupported notion. Show me the data and I will become a believer." Until then I think it is good policy to inform hunters of the benefits of wearing orange and let them make a choice.

Because in snow deer see orange as a darker color so you don't blend in quite as well against the white snowy background... and because they don't yet make a good orange camo pattern that blends in with most surroundings.. I find that an orange hat is quite visible even at a distance by other hunters, but isn't enough of for a deer to get alarmed about if the rest of your body blends in with the surroundings...

Transfering is only for doe permits and that is done to ensure that as many of the available permits are filled as possible. I think that mandatory reporting should be done by every hunter before getting tags for the next season. Possibly having to turn in the previous years tags before getting your new tags. That would also mean having to tell who you signed a tag over to.

Although there is an advantage to wearing snow camo while tracking in snow... I have killed many bucks while tracking and wearing orange... so you are correct that the statement isn't correct... I find that wearing camo with an orange hat works just as well as all camo... so thats what I do... it just gives me some piece of mind that I will be visible to other hunters.

The info is nice if you're just looking for numbers... but doesn't tell the real reason hunters get shot... it is because the shooter was usually shooting at movement without identifying the target... would blaze orange have made a difference? My guess would be yes... but as you stated.. without any hard evidence.. we can't be sure.

I would agree that they probably wouldn't be ticketed for poaching, but technically they are... I'm not even sure they would get more than a slap on the wrist for not reporting... and that is exactly the reason why many hunters don't report.. because there are really no reprocussions for not doing so... I do find it interesting that hunters complain that the numbers by the DEC are BS, yet aren't willing to help them get the real numbers by reporting their deer take... its kind like the guys that complain about too many does, but won't kill one, not enough big bucks... but they want to shoot all the yearlings... The hunters are really there own worst enemy when it comes to conservation... the DEC can only do so much without any cooperation from the hunting community. As for not enforcing game laws, that is all on the DEC.

I think erussell's statement was ment to be sarcastic....

All successful hunters are required by law to report their take of deer, bear, and turkey within 7 days of kill. Technically they are poaching... a deer is not considered taken legally until all requirements are met including tagging and reporting. You knowing it and doing nothing about it makes you an accessory.. friends don't put other friends in those kinds of situations.. they could at least not tell you so you don't have to be involved.

So, you didn't turn them in why? Did you also tell them that not reporting their deer is a better way to get your license pulled. Sorry, but that kind of stuff pisses me off... my friends know way better than to do something like that and tell me... it's not up to us to decide which rules you want to follow and which you don't.. whether we like the rule or not... that is exactly how things got the way they are.

With all due respect.. that had little to do with it.. like i said.. you need to go back and check it out.

What??? and who said anything about conservative measures?? C-o-n-s-e-r-v-a-t-i-o-n has little to do with grocery stores.

I agree.. but imagine it 3-4 years into it.. that's where it gets really "interesting"

I don't believe that the DEC is considering complete envelopment of NY for AR's... most of us that have been following deer management and the importance of AR's in management do not support just implementing them "just because"... good management is a thought out process based on habitat, food source, hunting pressure, herd size, etc. To just put out a blanket regulation without taking those things into consideration would be irresponsible. Hence the reason that AR's are only currently in selective areas... those areas were showing high yearling take and low sighting of larger antlered bucks. They made for good test areas, and the program seems to have shown signs of improving that situation short term.. we'll see how it goes from here.

I would probably leave the state if it was big bucks only... I'm all about conservation and whats best for whitetails... At my age I wouldn't tolerate a "no doe rule"... unless the reason was because of under population. I personally don't care whats best for me when it comes to nature.. especially whitetails. Past experience should tell us that the only reason there are whitetails in New York is because of conservation regulations... and for those who aren't aware of that fact.. go back and look at where the whitetail was back at the turn of the 20th century in NY when there were no rules.

Lets say anything with antlers beyond the ears, 8 points or better.