nyantler

I would blame the unions for trying to get more than what is fair to the taxpayers... without the consent of the taxpayers... unions were created to make sure workers got fair compensation and good, safe working conditions... not to see how much they could squeeze out of the companies and taxpayers... they have gotten out of control without the help of the government and even more out of control with the governments help.

There is no money involved in being a measurer.. no measurers get paid for their services... the only money involved would be any money made by the owners of the racks, given to them by companies exploiting them trying to get a boost for advertising purposes... The NYS Big Buck Club is made entirely of volunteers... who do not.. or should I say?... "should not"... be getting paid to score a rack.. they do it because they enjoy it... most problems are caused by hunters that are more interested in their 15 minutes of fame rather than having the buck preserved for future hunters to enjoy... NYSBBC has one interest and that is to record the exceptional bucks in NYS to be remembered forever and most hunters would think thats a good thing... the scores just help reflect the bucks position as it relates to other exceptional bucks ... it is not meant to be a contest of any kind... I think the hunters have created any of the competition... if it exists..we only need give the hunter recognition as a means to get the buck recorded... period. The truth is that over time most will forget the hunter .. but will usually remember their buck.

I guess it's just that the B&C scoring system has been around so long.. and they were the first to start recording exceptional animals... and actually... nontypicals are kind of score for shear amount of antler... when a buck is scored as a non-typical... the abnormal points are added to the final typical score... that is why the non-typical world record is much higher than the typical world record... I think there is confusion about the king buck being scored as a non-typical rack.. it was not... it was scored as a typical with an abnormal point... that is the reason that the "abnormal point" was a deduction.... I bet that no matter what new scoring method is adopted, there will still be those that don't like it and will complain that it isn't fair... it's just the human way... somebody always feels like they are getting the shaft, even when they are not..

Kind of like what was happening back in 1776... and the very reason America was formed... "Those that cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it"!

I agree that they are not 100%... and I will say that the video sounds quite convincing... and although I am quite experienced with scoring... I do not consider myself in the class of those that made the decision about the king buck... I can say from experience though... that some bucks that are not in contention for the world record may possibly get the benefit of the doubt by some of the many many measurers around the country... those same bucks would have been scrutinized much more by highly experienced measurers like Jack Reneau... but because they are not world record contenders they slide through... there are way to many animals scored and recorded each year... and it would be too time consuming for all of them to be gone over with a fine tooth comb... only those that are untra- elite get the kind of scrutiny that the king buck has gotten... kind like a bad call in sports that doesn't make the news until its made in a championship game. If any of those bucks had been a potential world record they might not have gotten under the radar.

Here is the facts as told by the B&C club... as to how many times the rack was examined The highest and best use of Boone and Crockett Club’s records is providing conservation professionals with a gauge for measuring success. Science-based and time-proven, trophy records can indicate habitat quality, herd dynamics, and much more. The King Buck was reviewed and scored using the same procedures used to score whitetails since 1950. It’s this consistency over time that makes Boone and Crockett Club’s records a valuable tool for game managers. A panel of four official measurers personally examined the King Buck in Pennsylvania. On page 41 of the Boone and Crockett Club’s scoring manual, a rule states, “There are instances where a single point comes off the top inside edge of the main beam and is considered an abnormal point.” The panel unanimously determined that a point on the King Buck’s right side fit this description. Resulting deductions lowered the antlers’ final score well below the threshold of a World’s Record. The trophy was accepted into Boone and Crockett Club’s records as a 180-class typical trophy. The hunter, Mr. Johnny King, later withdrew the buck from the records. King then reportedly sold the rack, presumably as an investment, to Mr. Jay Fish who began a campaign to dispute the score. Fish shopped for a Boone and Crockett Club volunteer official measurer willing to perform an unauthorized re-scoring of the rack. In doing so, Mr. Ron Boucher crossed a longstanding Club policy and Code of Conduct. Moreover, he re-scored the rack incorrectly. Official measurers on the Boone and Crockett Club’s staff in Montana and the chairman of the Club’s Records Committee reviewed photos of the antlers and the score sheet, and unanimously determined that Boucher was mistaken. The original entry score was accurate. At Fish’s urging, another review took place by a panel of official measurers in Idaho. The panel unanimously agreed that the tine in question was, by rule, an abnormal point. Club officials informed Boucher that the King Buck’s original score had been confirmed. Boucher, Fish, and others who continued to argue the ruling were invited to send new photos that might offer new evidence, but no photos were received. Eventually, Boone and Crockett Club was forced to dismiss two individuals for violating the Club’s policies and Code of Conduct. It was not the first time that strong action has been taken to protect the integrity of the Boone and Crockett Club’s records program—and the trophy data used by so many professionals in science-based management of whitetails.

The sad part is they won't stop spending money if revenues increase.. they will over spend and come back and ask for more... if they stopped spending money that they don't have on things they shouldn't ... nobody would have to be taxed more.

B&C has a system in place where official measurers report to Jack Reneau for guidance and direction on difficult scoring situations... but, Reneau reports to Eldon Buckner, Chairman of the B&C Records Committee, a committee made up of 30 official measurers. All this is in place to assure the proper outcome in accordance with B&C guidelines. No one scorer ever makes world record decisions on his own... that is the story that nobody is hearing. The same system happens in the NYSBBC... State records are highly scrutinized by many scores to determine its eligibilty before ever getting to the panel scoring stage... and yes sometimes there are those that disagree with the final decisions... but usually they are scorers that have some personal connection with the hunter... sometimes emotion plays a huge role in their decision because of how badly they want to see the buck become a new record.. and that is understandable... it just has nothing to do with what is actually going on sometimes.

Sam.. actually there were 4 scorers together at a scoring session that examined the King buck... the records chairman, Jack Reneau and 3 senior measurers... together they decided the point was abnormal. Now, whether Jack Reneau has something against King himself for some reason, I don't know... that would be the only reason politics would be involved.. as for all 4 measures having a problem with the hunter.. I highly doubt it. even after seeing the video you posted... I personally would still score the point as abnormal as much as I'd like to see the buck be a new world record. Even though the gentleman in the video did a lot of work to get to his determination.. I think he is right about the valley between the points, but wrong that the valley reaches tha beam... it looks to me like it stops just short of the beam and would not show two separate circles if disected... I will admit though that it is entirely possible that I am wrong as well... ...the only real way to know for sure is to cut the 2 points where they meet the beam and see if there are 2 separate circles on the beam or one big oval... unfortunately that will never happen.

The difference with the rampola buck is that the buck was never looked at by anyone but a few of Rampola's scorer buddies... when it came time to have it examined for possible entry as a worls record, Rampola refused to allow it to be examine thoroughly... I'm sure that B&C would like to examine Rampola's buck and enter it if it is truly a world record... I am also sure that Rampola will never let that happen... regardless of Hansen buck. He has acted fishy about the buck from the get go... being very secretive and combatant... ALL potential world record bucks are scrutinized heavily by the B&C club... and Rampola seems to have an aversion to having his looked at closely..

No single measurer can be the sole scorer for a world record potential... the scorer, making note of the questionable point would take an unofficial measurement to make sure that the buck is in contention.. then contact B&C officials to make arrangements for a determination on the questionable point. There are guidelines for determining a common base for two points... the determination would be made using those guidelines.. all other opinions don't matter. The rules are the same for every potential world record buck... the classification disagreement has more to do with emotions than the actual process of B&C scoring... the rules are not going to be compromised just to get a new world record... if the point in question was determined to be not of a common base.. then the buck would have been panel scored to make sure that there was a concensus on the final score... once the ruling was made that the point was of a common base... there is no need for a panel scoring because the deduction would not allow the buck enough score to be close to the world record... the buck could then be officially scored and entered into the B&C record book. Believe me.. I have been in this for quite some time... and there are a lot of measurers... not all are as qualified as others.. regardless of what you've heard about the Wisconsin scores... just like every surgeon is not as qualified as others and most major decisions are left to the head surgeon... such is the same here. The good news is that the process is the same for every potential world record... and done so to make sure that every precaution is taken to ensure a legitimate world record.

Hell of a whitetail....

This will start a whole new wage rate when the other unions get a hold of it.. is it any wonder why businesses are moving overseas... they simply can afford to do business here... the government public sector wage rates will drive up the private sector union job wages making it impossible to attract business in this country... ask the folks that worked at Carrier and Chrysler in CNY how their union jobs are now... the jobs they no longer have... yet the union leaders go onward making boat loads of money elsewhere until they drive those businesses out as well.

I'm with you Steve!

Whitetails are not necessarily opportunists.. they seek out certain types of food based on nutritional need throughout the year... hence the reason we don't see deer feeding on the same spots before the season as we do during or after the season... I would think that a more diverse planting is more important than large tracts of 1 or 2 crops... although in a bad winter... too much browse might not be a bad thing... ample browse is sometimes overlooked by the novice foodplotter.

Like I stated earlier.. even if they panel score it now... it would be scored based on the points being of a common base.. making it not in contention for world record status... it was scored... and under the rules... once the decision is made on the points in question... it can only be scored once (to avoid "score shopping")... the heads officers of B&C... like most organizations.. have the last say on how it is classified... a head is only eligible for panel score if it meets the criteria for the world record... which the decision was made that it doesn't. An extremely non-typical rack may be panel scored because it would have many questionable points that would need evaluation and a concensus given on their status as a normal or abnormal point... as for people questioning the politics involved here... i contend that there would be no reason for B&C to keep a possible world record from being scored as such.. unless it didn't meet the criteria under the rules. The Hanson buck had no questionable points and was relatively easy to score even for an amateur... I know many measurers that have been scorers for many years and are highly regarded for their dedication to the club, but have not scored many (if any) non-typical bucks or bucks with questionable points... making them less qualified to make a final decision on a buck of this importance.. I personally think it would be exciting if the King Buck was a new world record...it is an exceptional buck... but I agree with the B&C on this one from what I have observed.

Took the words out of my mouth... this would be my # 1..

He has a lot of growing left to do.. he is gonna be a bruiser this year!

I agree that the mounts look better with all the battle scars, but the positioning of the mount doesn't look natural. It is typical.. refer to previous post.

Nobody is saying he is a non-typical... just that the point in question is abnormal.. making it a deduction. The buck was still scored as a typical.

The scoring systems were actually spawned from hunter demand for a grading system based on interest in the biggest bucks being taken around the world...the system was never intended as a competition between hunters... just a way of recording and ranking exceptional whitetail bucks... only hunters have created the competition. B&C's only concern is recording the bucks under the system... they would be more than glad to enter a new world record.. IF it is truly a world record under the rules.

Just as a point of information... the buck was scored by B&C... they determined that the antler points in question were of a common base which means that one of the points is considered abnormal... with no corresponding point on the other side... the buck (if the gentleman wants) is eligible for recording as a B&C buck (180 Class).. just not in contention for the world record... it wouldn't matter if they did a panel score or not as the score would be given based on the points in question having a common base which , again, eliminates it from contention for the world record. I would also contend that with the attention given this buck over the controversy it has been involved in .. will make it one of the most well known bucks ever. As a measurer... and only having seen close up photos of the points in question... I would agree that B&C made the right call in determining that they are of a common base... like the scoring method or not... there are rules that are adhered to based on the process... one that has been around a long time. As for some "scorers" having a difference of opinion... not all scorers are as versed and experienced as others, therefore it is quite possible that a new scorers opinion might be from his lack of experience measuring under the B&C system.

Green Lakes State Park has cabins... beach and a golf course... you can also fish the lake for trout.

Yeah It can be a bit more expensive at the local store, but that's because the lumber is of much better quality.

I use 84 Lumber occasionally... I usually use local small privately owned lumber stores in my town... I would rather give my money to the local community.. and they will bend over backwards usually to make sure that they keep your business.