nyantler

Oh and as for the thread question .. my answer would still be... nothing

I've been hunting big bucks since long before you even knew what QDM was Steve. I don't need to have any laws made to help me kill big deer... I've been doing it successfully for years. You are quick to make assumpsions about things you know nothing about. For your information I don't care whether AR happens or not... but it will. All I have said so far is that my opinion is that I am for some form of AR... because I think it's better for the whitetail.. period. But whether it happens or not makes absolutely no difference to me... I'll let the guys that say they don't have any big bucks to kill, but still support the status quo, lose the sleep.

I stand corrected... outside the ears is their criteria.

The last 3 big bucks I killed where in the first week of December on the snow.

You seem to be missing the point of what AR is for. It's about creating age structure and bettering the buck to doe ratio in the herd not about making more big bucks. Yes , that is a by product of the program. But, is not the intent of AR's. And I hate to burst your bubble but I have been with the NYS Big Buck Club for many years and can attest to the fact that most of the bucks entered into the record book each year are a result of LUCK. And I haven't seen any reduction in pride in any of the guys that have harvested those bucks.

What question are you specifically referring to that I haven't already answered? Culver

Not sure about the button buck thing... usually reduced button buck harvest would be attributed to the doe harvest. Not killing lone does, but waiting for mutiple does so that you can compare size and take the bigger does. This helps reduce the killing of button bucks which are a bit small on average compared a mature doe.

And there is nothing like a little spirited debate to get the blood flowing.

Then state your opinion. You keep attacking the individual... saying that charlie alshiemer does what he does to sell books and calenders means you don't know the man. And he doesn't sell ad space on his website. And though I'll agree that Charlie has made his living selling books and calenders, writing articles and doing seminars... he also works very hard and does a lot of research on everything he writes or speaks about. I'm not a big believer in the moon phase theory being the end all be all either, but if you know Charlie he didn't come up with it to sell calenders... in fact, the reason he does the calenders is because of all the requests he had years ago from guys that new he was doing the research. Don't begrudge a hardworking guy his living.

its not antlers outside the ears... its 14" which is inside the ears.. but if you use the ears as a guide and the antlers are at least as wide as the ears the buck will be legal.. The idea is to shoot mature bucks not see how close we can come to 14 inches. Sorry about the "nonsensical point" comment that was out of line.

exactly GJS4!

I agree culver...

Why did I know that slowhand would have a problem with Alshiemers rut predictions?.. you're easier to predict than the rut slow..lol

As for my website.. you will find no promotion of QDM at all there.. just a couple paragraphs about my personal hunting preference.. but nice try slowhand. The website is strictly for entertainment. Don't tell me you don't enjoy a good hunting story.

I have no agenda... just stating my opinion. I couldn't care less how you guys hunt.. I'll enjoy it any way they give it to me.. My standards will always be higher than what ever the DEC can come up with anyway. Any definitely higher than all yours. And covert.. I'll bet your buck has a spread wider than 14" .. you don't have to be a genius to see the buck you got is a mature buck.. you just keep coming up with more ridiculous ways to try and prove your nonsensical points.

I think we will see State wide AR whether you change your mind or not...

because there are NOT many that practice any QDM or follow any AR... the reality is that most hunters shoot anything they can fill a tag with... thats why it hasn't changed. In other words you get out of it what you put into it.

And yes Culver they are Blatent facts... the key word there would be facts

You ARE hopeless Culver.. your comments are not realistic and certainly NOT from a logical standpoint... for your information .. all of the data is based on research and fact... and its just a small portion of the overall research done across the country on QDM... all with the same result... like i said before, it wouldn't matter if it was fact or not.. you would disagree with it simply because you don't like it. Just say it Culver .. you don't like it no matter how much sense it makes.. you can do it.

Its not about respecting the way you hunt wildcat... or disrespecting it... I only care if its good for the whitetail or not.. if passing on small bucks is better for whitetails from a management stand point then thats whats right.. just because a hunter wants to bait deer doesn't mean I have to agree with baiting. I'm not saying you can't hunt the way you want as long as its legal, I'm just for changing the law.

you guys are hopeless.. even when you have everything explained to you and have all the data in front of you.. you don't believe it... nor will you listen to it... everything is not a conspiracy fellas. Show me one bit of research evidence that proves that QDM model doesn't work. And i'm not getting the whole trophy hunting is bad thing you guys like to put out there. Me hunting big bucks has done nothing to hurt anything that has to do with hunting. In fact it has given all you small buck killers more small bucks to kill.

Its not about fair .. its about what is right. I believe as do most biologists that passing on younger bucks is best for the whitetail to establish a good representation of age among the herd. As for a flintlock being inaccurate.. i'll shoot mine against you and your rifle any day at 100 yards ... they are remarkably accurate.. like any weapon the inaccuracy is usually on the part of the operater. So, your analogy doesn't wash. Now if you asked me if I'd be upset if they took away killing a big buck. I'd have said yes.. unless they could convince me it was for the betterment of the whitetail.

Ok Guys.. check my past posts.. this is the plan I've been describing all along.. its the original QDM plan from 15 years ago.. and it just so happens that 7j,7f, and 7h are all the WMU's that I hunt.

I agree the hunt is absolutely not about the kill... my best hunting season ever was a year I didn't kill a single deer. I had some exciting hunts tracking a ton of big bucks that year and got a look at a few but just couldn't put one in the freezer. I passed on 8 bucks in the adirondacks that year as well that were too small. For me its all about the challenge. Thats why I went to tradional archery 10 years ago, and my firearm of choice is my flintlock muzzleloader. when I do carry a rifle it is a single shot 30-06 with iron sights. If I make it any more of a challenge I'll have to be throwing rocks at them.

Steve .. just because it doesn't swing with the hunters doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. As I have said before, I have no problem with guys hunting the way they want.. I'm just giving my opinion. Yes I do think some of the arguments are weak, but that doesn't mean I have any opinion of these guys personally. I'm sure they all love hunting as much as I do. And I think AR "can" be a good idea if done properly. I don't begrudge any kid wanting to take a young buck as he gains experience in the woods. But, I really don't understand why guys my age, that have taken truck loads of young bucks over the years, still can not pass on a small buck. I actually knew a guy that filled every tag he had 2 years ago.. two crotch horns and 3 does. he was all excited about telling everyone about his great achievment... I was on his property getting some firewood and notice all but one of the deer piled up behind his barn rotting. He didn't have the time or money to process all the deer. it made me sick! why did he take all those deer? The only reason he harvested those deer was for bragging rights. I believe there are a lot of hunters with the same mentality.