nyantler

And yes Culver they are Blatent facts... the key word there would be facts

You ARE hopeless Culver.. your comments are not realistic and certainly NOT from a logical standpoint... for your information .. all of the data is based on research and fact... and its just a small portion of the overall research done across the country on QDM... all with the same result... like i said before, it wouldn't matter if it was fact or not.. you would disagree with it simply because you don't like it. Just say it Culver .. you don't like it no matter how much sense it makes.. you can do it.

Its not about respecting the way you hunt wildcat... or disrespecting it... I only care if its good for the whitetail or not.. if passing on small bucks is better for whitetails from a management stand point then thats whats right.. just because a hunter wants to bait deer doesn't mean I have to agree with baiting. I'm not saying you can't hunt the way you want as long as its legal, I'm just for changing the law.

you guys are hopeless.. even when you have everything explained to you and have all the data in front of you.. you don't believe it... nor will you listen to it... everything is not a conspiracy fellas. Show me one bit of research evidence that proves that QDM model doesn't work. And i'm not getting the whole trophy hunting is bad thing you guys like to put out there. Me hunting big bucks has done nothing to hurt anything that has to do with hunting. In fact it has given all you small buck killers more small bucks to kill.

Its not about fair .. its about what is right. I believe as do most biologists that passing on younger bucks is best for the whitetail to establish a good representation of age among the herd. As for a flintlock being inaccurate.. i'll shoot mine against you and your rifle any day at 100 yards ... they are remarkably accurate.. like any weapon the inaccuracy is usually on the part of the operater. So, your analogy doesn't wash. Now if you asked me if I'd be upset if they took away killing a big buck. I'd have said yes.. unless they could convince me it was for the betterment of the whitetail.

Ok Guys.. check my past posts.. this is the plan I've been describing all along.. its the original QDM plan from 15 years ago.. and it just so happens that 7j,7f, and 7h are all the WMU's that I hunt.

I agree the hunt is absolutely not about the kill... my best hunting season ever was a year I didn't kill a single deer. I had some exciting hunts tracking a ton of big bucks that year and got a look at a few but just couldn't put one in the freezer. I passed on 8 bucks in the adirondacks that year as well that were too small. For me its all about the challenge. Thats why I went to tradional archery 10 years ago, and my firearm of choice is my flintlock muzzleloader. when I do carry a rifle it is a single shot 30-06 with iron sights. If I make it any more of a challenge I'll have to be throwing rocks at them.

Steve .. just because it doesn't swing with the hunters doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. As I have said before, I have no problem with guys hunting the way they want.. I'm just giving my opinion. Yes I do think some of the arguments are weak, but that doesn't mean I have any opinion of these guys personally. I'm sure they all love hunting as much as I do. And I think AR "can" be a good idea if done properly. I don't begrudge any kid wanting to take a young buck as he gains experience in the woods. But, I really don't understand why guys my age, that have taken truck loads of young bucks over the years, still can not pass on a small buck. I actually knew a guy that filled every tag he had 2 years ago.. two crotch horns and 3 does. he was all excited about telling everyone about his great achievment... I was on his property getting some firewood and notice all but one of the deer piled up behind his barn rotting. He didn't have the time or money to process all the deer. it made me sick! why did he take all those deer? The only reason he harvested those deer was for bragging rights. I believe there are a lot of hunters with the same mentality.

Well if its not about the amount of bone on the deers head then why even bother with a buck just shoot does. Guys would go nuts if the DEC said no more bucks , does only. Because it "IS" about the bone on their head. I haven't met a hunter yet that has said he wouldn't love to kill a big buck! Ok let's get back to the question at hand... Whats so hard about passing yearling bucks?... answer: Nothing

Doc.. you must not be paying attention I have answered every question you have asked...for the last time.. YES, if the buck doesn't offer the opportunity to determine if he is a legal buck.. you let him walk. Again .. I'm not seeing the difficulty here. I didn't say you had to like the answer.. but thats my answer. If he ends up being a shooter, oh well, better luck next time. As for the speeding analogy... what the hell does that have to do with anything? The cops have a radar gun they don't need to guess... I don't know about you but i only have my eyes for determining antler spread. But there is a good idea... a spread measuring gun! By the way.. i don't have any problem with anyone not liking AR.. its just that a lot of your arguments are a bit weak is all

I'm still not getting the dumb law part .. sorry... the law says you can hunt with ML late season in that area.. thats not dumb. The fact that you were hunting with your bow instead.. that obviously was a bit dumber.

I wear an orange hat just so I don't get shot in the head!

I don't really care what guys shoot.. but, if I'm asked my opinion I say I see no reason to shoot a young buck. If you say you get the same thrill out of killing a spike as you would a 150 class buck.. you are a liar!! Or, you have never killed a 150 class buck. I hear more guys argue that there are no big bucks in their area so they have to shoot small bucks... LOL I can't help but laugh at them. The worst part is they have no idea why I'm laughing

The reason I support AR is simply because its the only way to get a collective group of NY hunters to stop shooting smaller bucks. I have said in past posts that I don't think that the AR that the DEC has imposed on areas is anywhere close to what it really needs to be and really doesn't keep younger bucks from being killed. 3-point on one side can still be a small 1 1/2 old 6-point.

Wouldn't matter what the measurement was... some hunters would find an excuse for why it wouldn't work. But to answer your question...An alert deer's ear tips are approx 16" tip to tip. So the original 14" QDM recommendation from 15 years ago would be just fine to write the law. The ear tips would be the benchmark. But, it doesn't matter what the limit is... you will always have guys trying to find ways to defeat the purpose of the law which is to try and curb the killing of younger bucks. My point is that using some kind of restraint when it comes to killing bucks makes it easier to determine whether its a shooter or not. If in doubt ... don't shoot.. simple. Honestly there would be no need for antler restrictions if hunters weren't so hung up on having to kill any buck. My buddies an I know exactly what we mean when we say we hunt mature bucks.. we don't need a number to help us do the right thing.

Thats buck got 150 class written all over him

If you have a doe tag use it!.. if nothing else donate it to the venison drive to feed the hungry.

Amen Bubba.. and there would be more if hunters would stop shooting the smaller ones!

Yeehaw! Bring on the crossbow... I'd hunt with a hammer if they'd let me!!

I don't hunt from a stand so I start my day later when the sun is just coming up. I have hunted with a recurve and cedar arrows for the last 10 years and really want to take a buck from the ground. I have been unsuccessful for all those years. My fault.. I'm picky about the quality of buck i will shoot and have passed on nearly 50 smaller deer over the past 10 yrs. I try to hunt most of the day when I do hunt although I'll grab an hour or two here and there if thats all my schedule allows.

point well taken .. i apologize for making it sound like I'm better than you. Not my intention. In fact I have been hunting 34 years and have taken just 19 bucks and numerous does. 12 of the 19 Bucks score between 110 and 155. The 7 smaller bucks I killed before 1994 when I was younger. I have only killed 3 bucks with my bow EVER. All score over 100. Forgive me for thinking that killing small bucks is easy.. but,I have passed on more small bucks in one days than most hunters have see all season. And more in a season than some hunters have in their lifetime. I hunt in central NY and the adirondacks. The fact that I haven't killed a lot of bucks has never diminished my pleasure for hunting one bit... cuz hunting big bucks is what does it for me. It has never been about killing for me.. and I love venison. I usually harvest 2 does a year with my muzzleloader (flintlock) one of which I donate to the venison donation drive to feed the hungry. Whatever does it for you is okay too... I'm just not into the fellas that hunt like its a competition to see who can kill the most bucks and I personally have never heard a good reason for killing a small buck.

I find killing a small buck as easy as one tied up to a post... and not very sportsman like. But some guys have got to get a buck every year to prove that they are "great" hunters or maybe its to fill up the box of spike & crotch horn antlers in the garage. Oops these remarks ought to get some feedback!

Very good question Bubba!

No Doc.. what I am saying is that its not rocket science. The only person that would have trouble with determining legal spread restriction is someone who is gonna complain no matter what solution there is.... its no different than determining if the antler is 3" long ... i'm not hunting looking for a buck that has 3 1/4 " antlers... I'm only going to take the buck that I'm sure is legal. Its simple...the problem isn't with the restriction... its just with the person that doesn't like the restriction.

no need for me to whistle to get the deer in the pics to turn towards me. I already know its a buck I wouldn't take. But if I wasn't sure.. I would wait... OMG! that might mean not getting a buck! How can I ever be a hunter if I can't kill a buck every year? You guys kill me... its always the same guys too... you need to relax. This is just guys giving their opinions. If I didn't know better I would think you were a bunch of kids!