wolc123

One theory I have heard, regarding DRT or not from a heart/lung hit, is that the primary dependence is on the exact instant when the bullet strikes. That is more important than bullet type, size, speed, etc. Not more important for killing the animal, just wether or not it is “dead right there”. If the bullet arrived on the compression stroke of the heart, then the cardiovascular system can’t handle the “overpressure”, and the lights go out immediately, as the brain is short-circuited by all the popping blood vessels. Since the compression stroke of the heart is not as long as the relaxed portion, the DRT kills are not as frequent. That said, I only shot two whitetail bucks with my 30/06 and both were drt. That means the next 8 or so will probably run off a ways. My only drt shotgun slug kills were shoulder blade hits. I can’t ever remember having one of those drop on the spot from a heart/lung hit.

I’m thinking just above the spine, in that thick area of back strap behind the shoulder. We have the debate every year on this site, about that magical area below the spine where an can pass without striking lung. I say “magical”, because that’s make-believe. There is no such place, because the lungs reach all the way up to the spine. Most folks don’t realize how thick the back straps are above the spine, just behind the shoulder. I think your buck ducked at the sound of the arrow release, resulting in a higher than expected hit, and that arrow went over the spine. Did you get the broadhead back ? I only suggested pushing right away, if it was still in him, because that might have continued cutting and increased blood loss. It it did pass over the spine, then he definitely has a good chance of recovery and is very likely still chasing. I killed an 8-pointer one time, that suffered such a hit. I found the mechanical broadhead and a few inches of shaft, inside the hide on the back side, when I was skinning him. I killed him with my shotgun on opening day of gun and the arrow wound looked to be a couple weeks old. I trimmed out and discarded 3 or 4 “qestionable” looking chops, in the region where the arrow passed thru. That morning, a group of 6 or 7 antlerless deer came thru earlier, and I killed the largest of them, with a shoulder blade shot using my ML. The others just kind of milled around aimlessly for a couple minutes, lacking their leader. I only had one doe tag, so I had to just watch. I did have my short, open-sighted smooth-bore Remington 870, up in the stand for backup, and I still had my buck tag . The 8-pointer, and a smaller 4-pointer showed up on their trail about 5 minutes after the others dispersed. The 4 would have been a chip shot, as he stood almost under my stand. The 8 was standing next to the doe carcass, about 75 yards away. Naturally, I went for the bigger one, even thought it was pushing the effective range of that smoothbore. The shot was true, and he dropped almost on top of the doe, also struck in the shoulder blade. I later regretted not killing the healthy looking, much closer 4-pointer instead, when I had to trim out that pussy meat around the arrow wound.

So glad to hear that you got her. How far was the blood trail ?

I ended my crossbow season tonight with another pass at home, this time on an even smaller antlered buck than the 4-pointer I passed the first Sunday morning. This one looked like he had a 3” spike on one side and 4” on the other, just like the one I passed on the second day of rifle season, up in the northern zone. It wouldn’t have been a chip shot, but at 40 yards, I think I could have made it. That was the range where I killed this coyote, the previous morning. I wasn’t feeling comfortable in my small back woods stand, so I tried moving to my central natural blind, at 4:00 pm. The little spike was feeding in front of that, blocking my route. He didn’t see me and I knelt down. If I didn’t have a 5:00 am flight out of state in the morning, I’d have taken the shot. I hunted the upper deck of my two story blind for the first hour yesterday morning and today’s. I saw the biggest buck of the year this morning from there, crossing the hay field about 80 yards away. He looked like a 3.5 plus year old 10 pointer. I didn’t see any deer back there Saturday morning but 6 to 8 coyotes crossed that hay field and I was able to kill the one that got to 40 yards and stopped there, dropping him on the spot, with a bolt to the base of the neck. I didn’t see any deer Saturday evening over at my parents, at the edge of the clover plot, but I saw a 2.5 yr old 8-pointer, and a big 1.5 or small 2.5 year old 6 pointer over there Friday evening. Both were a little out of range. I used my Barnett Recruit on all the hunts those last (3) days including the one where I killed the coyote. Still haven’t killed anything with the Centerpoint Sniper, and I guess that will have to wait till next year. I saw total of (5) different bucks (3) at home and (2) at my parents and no antlerless deer thru (10) hunts. Only the spike today and the (4) pointer last Sunday at home were within range. I have to go out of state for work all week, so I’ll have a buck tag left, for late ML season. The best thing about this years crossbow season, is that there is one less coyote out back and it looks like the broadhead that I used on him can be saved. He did bite the bolt in half though, trying to pull it out of his lower neck.

I started out in the truck cap blind, about 150 yards down my back shooting lane , this afternoon. It was nice in there, thru the heavy snowfall the last couple hours, but it has cleared up now. I moved to a nearby tree blind at the edge of my woods. This feels like a better location to ambush a rutting buck.

This reminds me of something that happened to my uncle many years ago. It was a lesson that has always stayed with me. He shot what he described as the “biggest antlered buck that he ever seen”, in the jungle- like woods, across the road from our farm. He walked over to it, and leaned his gun against a tree. As he was getting out his knife, the buck jumped up from the ground and disappeared into the jungle, never to be seen again. That happened about 35 years ago. I have very rarely walked up to a downed deer, without a loaded weapon since hearing that story. I always take the safety off and stick the muzzle of my weapon (or the tip of my crossbow bolt) into an eyeball. If there is a blink, they get a second shot to the neck (with a gun), or center-lung with a bolt or arrow. I might start going center-lung with guns too, after discovering the awesomeness of neck-roasts, the last few years. If there is no blink, then and only then, do I lay down my primary weapon and bring out my knife. I had to add the “very rarely”, because I didn’t do that on my last two ML kills, both of which happened this year. The New Year’s Day Holiday bb was clearly DRT, from a shoulder blade hit. It was also near the 1/2 hour past sunset closing time, so I wasn’t willing to take the legal risk. I didn’t do it on the early antlerless season doe I killed this September either. That was a point blank (15) yard standing-broadside shot and I seen where the shot struck her (right over her heart). I also saw her flop down, after a 50 yard sprint. So there are definitely times that I have made exceptions with ML’s, and that’s mostly because it’s a pain to unload them. There’s not a good excuse for not doing the “eye poke” with a loaded crossbow or non-muzzleloading firearm though. With a regular bow (which I haven’t hunted with since 2013), I always knocked an arrow and clipped on my release, for the final approach. I think my uncle told me that story the year that I killed and recovered my first deer with my bow. It was that second arrow that finished it, after a bad first hit. There’s been at least a half dozen gun kills, thru the years for me, that have required that finisher. Also, I never leave my stand or blind, if I can see a downed deer, until it stops moving, nor do I put on my safety or take my aim off the deer.

I think I would call deersearch in that situation and see if someone can come out with a dog. Gut hits seem to have the highest percentage of recovery for dogs, probably because they give off so much scent. Unfortunately, that also makes it easier for coyotes to find them. Seeing how it’s a Sunday, and most guys are off work, it might be easier to find a nearby tracker.

Did you use a stud with a nut on the back ? I’ve had better luck with those. You just have to countersink a little bit on the back side for the nut. The factory, screw threaded front stud pulled out of my TC Omega, resulting in the stock cracking at the pistol grip area, when the barrel swung down onto my wood barn floor. I replaced the stud with a countersunk and nutted one, and gorilla glued the broken stock. That was about 15 years ago, and it has held up well since then.

I sat in the top of the same two-story blind where I was yesterday morning. At 7:40, a heafty, 3.5 yr plus 10 point crossed the hayfield to my north. He was at a steady fast walk, head up. The closest he got was about 80 yards. I didn’t try grunting because I reserve that for firearms. I prefer to shoot only at clueless, totally relaxed deer, with archery tackle. There’s a lot less bad hits or misses that way. When you grunt, they come in on high alert, looking for a rival buck. He was pretty much on the same track that the coyotes were on yesterday, but headed the opposite direction (sw), and never made the turn my way. That’s the 4th buck and largest by far that I have seen thru crossbow season, where I have yet to see an antlerless deer. I’ll go out for the last 4-5 hours today and that will be a wrap for my early archery season. I am due to see an antlerless deer, if the usual 4:1 post October 1 ratio holds up. It would be nice to get one into the deer fridge before next weekends gun opener.

He wasn’t as heavy as he felt dragging. I found a 50 lb fish scale in my boat and he was 40 pounds even, minus the tail after dehydrating for a day. Might have been 44 on the paw.

Help yourself if you’d like, although it’s missing the tail now, so you’d need to add a few ounces. It’s laying right by the creek bank. I imagine it will lay there dehydrating till spring, when I’ll plow it under. It seems that crows don’t even eat coyotes. It did pull a little harder, with the drag rope, than the button buck that I shot during last years early antlerless season.

I haven’t seen too many deer at home so far thru crossbow season (just one 4-pointer), which I passed at 15 yards on the second morning. I also haven’t seen any fawns this year. I trapped (7) coons in my sweetcorn in the late summer, all but (1) were adult males, and all were exhumed by coyotes within (2) days of my burying them. Almost every night, one can hear the yips and howling of coyotes. I was out hunting this morning, in the upper deck of my favorite stand. At about 8:15, I noticed motion in the hay field to my north. It was a large coyote, running across, from west to east. There were others behind it, spaced about 20 yards apart, 6 to 8 of them in total. The path they were on, would have taken them safely past, at about 100 yards range, but the leader turned in my direction, and stopped, facing me at exactly 40 yards. That just happened to be the maximum distance, where I had sighted in the third green dot, on my Barnett Recruit crossbow. I always wondered if those NAP Spitfire, 100 grain broadheads wound hit exactly the same as a 100 grain field tip, but I was too cheap to try one on a target, to find out. There is no more need for that “waste” after today, thanks to this coyote. I put the third dot on the base of his neck and squeezed the trigger. That’s exactly where it struck: That shot dropped that coyote right on the spot, but it did not kill it. It paralyzed both front legs. For at least (5) minutes, it spun circles with its back legs, and lifted its head. It barked quite a few times, sounding just like a deep pitched German Shepard dog. Again, being very cheap, I was unwilling to send a second bolt into it. When it stopped moving, after about 10 minutes, I walked over to it. It was still drawing shallow breaths. I had nothing to club it with and I didn’t want to risk a bite. I held its head down with the foot bar of my reloaded Recruit, and stood on its chest for about 10 more minutes, until it finally drew its last breath. While it had dropped very easily, it certainly died hard. I already have one tanned grey coyote hide in the house and my wife didn’t want another. My neighbor, who traps them, said the hides were virtually worthless. I cut off its tail and skinned, salted and hung it down in the basement, with my deer tails. Maybe, I’ll try making some jigs from it. It must have bit off the back part of the bolt, trying to yank it out of its shoulder. The broadhead pulled out rather easily, and still looks to be in decent shape. I’ll touch up the blades on a stone and keep it in reserve. Tomorrow will be my last chance to fill a buck tag during archery season, because I have to leave the state for work the rest of the week. I’ll hunt the first hour and the last 4. If I can’t get it done then (I’ll settle for a 3-1/32” unicorn), it will have to wait till late ML season. I hope I don’t regret passing the 4-pointer on the second day. I was surprised how heavy that big red male coyote was, when I tried lifting him by the tail. I had weighed the last one I killed at night on the butcher pile, years before (55 pounds) and this one felt heavier. Apparently they have been very well fed from coons and antlerless deer that the neighbors have been nocking off with their nussance permits. I roped a back leg to drag it up front.

It is a 100 gr 3 blade nap spitfire mechanical. It hit him right where the spine and shoulder blades meet and paralyzed his front legs. I never heard one bark like that. He sounded exactly like my neighbors old German Sheppard. He dropped very easily, but he sure died hard. When I walked up on him, about 10 minutes after shooting him, I had to hold his head down with the stock of my crossbow, and stand on his chest almost 10 minutes, before he finally stopped breathing. The problem was, that all that bone in that spot stopped the broadhead before it could do much cutting . That little Recruit was only launching bolts at 300 FPS, when it was new, and it’s probably down to 275 or so now. 40 yards is about as far as I’d shoot a deer with it. That yote was right at 40 yards, per my laser range finder. I lasered him, as he was brake dancing in circles, with the bolt sticking out of his neck. My neighbor has trapped lots of them and he’s going to start trapping harder now. I can’t believe there’s any deer left back there, with all those coyotes around, but he said that his son in law missed a nice buck back there this morning. It sure would have been nice to have had a repeating firearm back there this morning. That way I could have maybe taken out more than one of them vermin. Hopefully, my neighbor can trap a few more.

Definitely more than that. He was too heavy to carry up, so I tied a rope around his back leg to drag. The other 5 or 6 behind him looked significantly smaller. The females around here might go in the thirties, but most of the adult males break 50. Maybe you have more of the smaller western genes in the ones in your area. I asked my neighbor if he wanted it and he didn’t (said the hides aren’t worth anything and the nap spitfire messed it up pretty good at the shoulder). They are definitely eating well, thanks to all the antlerless deer that the neighbors have been nocking off on their nuisance tags. This one sounded exactly like a dog, as he laid there barking for about 5 minutes, after taking that bolt. It paralyzed his front legs, but he was still able to move his back legs and lift his head. There was none of that characteristic “yip” tone in his bark at all. He must have some German Sheppard in his genes, which might also explain his heft. I’ve killed a few button bucks that dragged easier than he did. I just pulled my broken shaft out of it and cut the tail off, skinned and salted it. Maybe I’ll try some coyote tail jigs for bass. The camera angle makes him look smaller. I didn’t use you fish trick, of holding him way out in front. If you want to believe he weighs 25 pounds, that’s fine by me. At least he won’t be eating any more deer or turkeys around here.

Shot this “leader of the pack” at 8:30 or so this morning. Looks to be maybe 62 pounds. Dropped on the spot at 40 yards from the shoulder hit, but took at least 10 minutes to die, after I stood on its lungs while holding its head down. dropped easy but died hard.

still breathing but very shallow breaths and no movement. I guess I’ll try and hold its head down with my crossbow and stand on it lungs. I just don’t want to get bit.

Don’t mind at all. I have one (slightly damaged one) in the freezer right now and hoping to get a few more before Valentine’s Day. Otherwise, it will be mostly beef tongues in the mix. I winder how coyotes Hearts would be ?

I haven’t shot at any game with this 2014 Barnett Recruit since it’s last buck (a good 3.5 yr 8-pointer) in 2019. It’s taken (4) other bucks for me before that, all but one with protruding antlers. It’s first shot was a miss on a grouse up in the Adirondacks. A pack of (6)coyotes came across my middle field (10) minutes ago. The lead (largest) one was facing me at 40 yards and I let one rip. The bolt dropped it on the spot but it rolled around and barked for about 5 minutes. I don’t want to waste another bolt on it. I guess I’ll wait for it to stop moving, then skin it and freeze the hide, maybe get it tanned. It’s only my second adult coyote. I killed another at night on a butcher waste pile about 10 years ago. It will be interesting to see if there’s ticks on it. It must have bled out now as I haven’t seen a motion in about 2 minutes.

Idano, Who’s on second.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all, to see $ 10 per gallon diesel and $ 5 per gallon gas by mid winter, especially is the dems hold the senate.

A big 1.5 or small 2.5 6-pointer showed up at 80 yards at 4:40. He has a very light colored rack that was very easy to see as he walked the tall goldenrod behind the clover. That’s the third antlered buck I’ve seen during crossbow season so far. One more, and maybe I’ll see an antlerless deer, if the usual 4:1 ratio holds up. That’s what always happens at my two spots in wmu 9F, because the neighboring farmers pile those up on their nuisance permits, before October 1. I am very thankful to have been able to get in on at least a little of that action the last 2 years, thanks to the September, early antlerless gun season.

I drove mine over to a car show, in honor of my late uncle, at the Rapids fire hall a few weeks ago. It was the only “antique” there that still had its original factory paint and tires (1951): My uncle’s 1972 Gran Torino was the star of the show. My tires are original, but I had to replace one of the rear rims last winter after the calcium finally rusted thru it. It actually plows better with a 2 x 12” moldboard plow, with just one loaded rear tire (up on the sod), than it did with two. It’s not as good on the 2-row cultivator though, so now I use my 4wd loader tractor for that. That allows me to spray roundup on the rows with a loader mounted boom, as I am cultivating.

How’s the rain at Letchworth ?It’s been a real gully washer up here, about an hour north of there over the last half hour, but the land here is pancake flat without the gully. I should have went to the lower part of my two story box blind, but the rain was light when I got here at 2:00. That buck was headed right towards that blind and he probably passed within 10 yards of it. The rain is letting up a little a bit now. Hopefully, he stops by here, for a bite of clover, before 5:15.

Certainly, and with the supply of diesel fuel expected get real short this winter, it’s hard go wrong with an old gas-powered tractor. I just bought another one (farmall cub), that is being set up for snow plowing right now. It’s also a lot easier starting those old gas engines, when it’s real cold out. In addition to snow-plowing at home, I plan on using that cub for food-plotting over at my parents place next spring. It’s big advantage there, is that it fits in the bed of my full sized pickup, so I don’t need to buy or borrow a trailer when I haul it back and forth from over there. There is a nice little 6 ft pull type disk over there that I can use, and I am fixing up another 7 ft cultipacker this winter, so I can leave it over there. My dad has a Polaris Ranger, that’s great on a sprayer, but atv’s suck on ground engaging implements. I borrowed this trailer from my farmall mechanic, when I picked it up: One thing you want to be aware of when buying old tractors is parts availability. The Ford n-series and hundred series are tops in that respect, but farmalls (especially the Cubs, a’s, c’s, and h’s) are a close second.

A solid looking 2.5 yr old 8 point on a mission, passed by at 60 yards just as I was typing that last post (2:40 pm). Hopefully, he comes back for some salad.