wolc123

In high hunter pressure areas of the Southern zone, the ML would likely be less effective at controlling antlerless deer numbers than a crossbow, despite it's greater range, because it's "boom" would tip them off over a much larger area, making more of them go nocturnal quicker. Even though I voted yes to full inclusion, I am ok with the way things are right now. I would not be, if I did not have access to free food and lodging and some good hunting up in the Northern zone. Up there, I can at least get out for three days in mid-October with the crossbow. I always switch to the ML over the last 7 days of the season up there, to take advantage of the greater range, but that is a low hunter pressure area where an occasional "boom" has little effect. I also look forward to a little early-October squirrel and rabbit hunting in the Southern zone this fall, which I would not mess around with if I could hunt deer with my crossbow then. I do feel sorry for that sad minority who are so strongly against full inclusion. You know they are getting upset, when they get irrational and start making stuff up like "30-40 wounded deer with a crossbow for every one with a vertical", or "that little short piece of aluminum shaft I found attached to a broadhead in the deer I killed with my bow's neck had to come from a crossbow". Most folks would realize that aluminum shafts fell out of favor long before crossbow's got legal in NY. I killed my last buck with my vertical bow, about 8 years ago, with a jugular vein shot. It was not intentional, and he would have taken that arrow thru the lungs had he not reared down and back at the sound of my release 25 yards away. That is my favorite thing about the crossbow - no string jump whatsoever shooting at completely relaxed deer. It is hard to overestimate how much easier it is to hit something that is in the same position when the arrow strikes as it was when it was released.

I think a monthly poll would be good, that way we could see what way the issue is trending with the members. I only remember one other actual poll on the issue and apparently no one is able to produce any evidence of it. Does anyone have any explanation as to why that may be ? I recall about the same 2:1 ratio in favor of full inclusion that we are seeing in this poll right now. I also like the way this one is worded, for it or against it with no middle ground or gray areas to murky up the water.

I only know for sure what my own numbers are and they certainly do not jive with that. I only released three bolts at deer with a crossbow and all three dropped dead within 40 yards. Of the dozen or so arrows that I released at deer with a vertical bow over many seasons, (2) may have missed, (6) were recovered kills and (4) were hit but not recovered. Of those (4) losses, one died for sure (too far back) and (3) likely recovered (shoulder blades with no penetration). I have a pretty good idea why my own kill percentage is at 100 % on deer with a crossbow and why I was never able to get close to that with a vertical. First, eliminating the need to draw with a deer in close has totally eliminated "string jump". It is a lot easier to hit a relaxed deer where you want to than an alert one. Second, It is much easier to hold a tight group from a rest than it is offhand. And finally, a telescopic site makes it much easier to hit the individual hair on the deer that you aim at. For sure, the main reason the Crossbow has never let me down (on a deer) is because: What other weapon would Jesus prefer that I use ? He apparently has better places to put grouse than "Deer heaven" (our family's food supply) though. I missed one of those with my first crossbow shot ever at a game species. I am completely helpless as a hunter on my own, and totally dependent on Him to keep my family fed.

It looks like it is getting back towards 2:1 in favor of full-inclusion again. No real surprise there I guess.

The problems with the whole-house NG units is that they cost more and are not as handy for other projects. (4) outages in (10) years does not seem to justify the additional expense and reduced versatility for me at least.

Would you rank the deer hunting in NY as better or worse than that in NH ? Would you consider yourself more of a meat-hunter or a trophy-hunter ? I am a pure meat-hunter, if there ever was one. I have been to most of the lower 48 states, but have only hunted deer in one other. The mule deer that I killed in CO was horrible tasting, so bad in fact, that it took away any desire for me to hunt deer out of state again. NY has it all when it comes to whitetails, from the hefty and delicious corn-fed specimens from the Western NY hills and fields, to the elusive Trophies surrounded by breath-taking scenery up in the Adirondacks.

The one I use would be just about right for you. It is 5000 running watts and 6250 peak. You can pick one of those up for around $ 500. It easily runs two full sized fridges, a big freezer, a sump pump, a big screen TV, and a couple lights. I came home from work an hour early on Wednesday and ran it for the 5th hour of a 6 hour blackout, that was caused by the high winds. The power company expected that outage to last up to 12 hours, but they are almost always overly conservative with their repair estimates. For hookup, I usually just run extension cords to everything and that works out pretty well. The first one always goes to the sump pump, and the second one to the big freezer (it still contains about 2/3 of our year's supply of venison at this point). When the wife and kids pester me enough, I give them a TV and a light or two. Our woodstove easily heats the house, so I never bother putting power to the gas furnace. Our's has a couple wheels and a handle, which make it easy to roll around for yard work and stuff. I use it throughout the year to power corded weed-trimmers at the far edges of our yard, and for various projects around the farm and woods. That usage, an oil change once a year, and stabilized ethanol-free gas, keeps it ready to go at any time. It has given me zero problems over (10) years of ownership, and has the Brigs and Stratton engine. It will run about 8 hours on 3 gallons of gas. Over that (10) years, I only used it about (4) times for actual power outages and none lasted longer than 8 hours.

I have always struggled around home, killing does compared to bucks. Several local farmers hit the antlerless deer pretty hard on their nuisance permits, prior to October 1. That always pushes the buck to doe ration about even, and makes the surviving does tougher to kill during hunting season. Because opportunities are so low, I can not recall ever passing a shot, that I was 90 % or more certain I could make, on a doe at home.

Sell it and get a crossbow. A lighter, symmetric pull is a lot easier on you muscles and joints as you get older.

That is a new one for me also. What the anti-crossbow minority of bow-hunters really fear, and a few (like Belo) have openly admitted, is that more people will be able to compete for the same deer and/or the same hunting spots. Never before did they have to worry about those who lacked the time, dedication, or strength to master a vertical bow. The thought of all the additional elderly, handicapped, women and children has them shaking in their boots now. That is just some short-sighted thinking. Anything that can help get more people into hunting will help stem the tide of the dwindling hunter numbers. In the long run, keeping and recruiting more folks to the sport is in the best interest of all of us. Before any anti-crossbow bowhunter can claim not to be in the minority, I will again reference the poll several years ago, in the bow-hunting section of this very forum, that was showing support for full-inclusion by more than a two to one margin at the time it "mysteriously" went away. We will probably never know why that poll disappeared. Was there someone who's "agenda" it did not fit ? Since then, it sounds like even more have switched sides and now support full inclusion. Could that be because everyone grows old ?

Growing up, my dad hunted, but he was way more into pheasants than deer. The wild pheasants were pretty much gone by the time I was old enough to hunt, so we did not hunt much together. I only remember him killing two deer. His older brother (my god-father) was more into deer hunting and showed me how to gut my first kill (a button buck), while hunting with him as a teenager. My grandpa (mom's dad) was really into hunting, especially deer and squirrel, but he died before I was old enough, leaving me all his guns. I learned a bit from friends, consisting mostly of neighbors, and coworkers. Mostly, I learned by making mistakes on my own, and trying my best to avoid repeating them. On rare occasion, I was able to learn an important lesson from someone else. For example, I never walk up on a downed deer, lay down my weapon and get out my knife, until I stick the muzzle of my loaded weapon in it's eye and it does not blink. Had my uncle not learned that lesson the hard way, he would have harvested what he said was the largest deer he had ever seen. Since he was the one who was with me for my own first kill, that lesson really sunk in. I have been hunting deer for 36 years, and for 30 of them, I learned way too many lessons the hard way myself. It seemed that whenever I solved one problem, a completely different one would pop up from somewhere I least expected it. That struggle ended 6 years ago, when a coworker clued me in to what he thought was the source of his own troubles that year, and also of my own good fortune. I had killed a mature buck that year, due to what I thought was just "dumb luck". Mature bucks are rare for me, because I am a meat hunter and usually take the first deer that offers me a good shot. On the morning of that rare feat, I had also killed a fat button buck in the morning, and a friend had given me another, almost identical to it. With two fat button bucks hanging in the garage and ready to butcher, I was not very much into the afternoon hunt, even though it was still opening day of gun season. I figured I would pass some quite time up in a tree reading a book. I headed for the deep woods across the road, where I had not heard a single shot all morning, while our side had sounded like World War III. About 5 minutes prior to legal sunset, the book I was reading somehow fell from my hands, landing softly on the pine needles below the tree my stand was in. I decided to pack it in a little early, but I left my gun loaded as I carefully climbed down the tree. As soon as I hit the ground, a flock of turkeys landed right in the little patch of brush below my tree, some less than 10 feet away. Then the head and neck of the big buck stuck out from behind the brush about 15 feet away. I hit him at the base of the neck, with a slug from my grandpas old 16 gauge Ithaca model 37, killing him instantly. The older coworker explained his troubles to me over that opening weekend on a Monday morning. He had apparently missed a big buck on Saturday and a doe on Sunday. He is an elder at my good friend's church and he very rarely misses a Sunday. He felt bad that he had missed church for the hunt that weekend and he asked me if I had gone. I had, but probably would not have if I still needed meat. Then he asked what book I was reading. He was able to connect the dots, when I told him it was the Bible. He said "I guess you got to have things right with the Lord" if you want to be a successful hunter. In each of the last (5) seasons, I have seen that same lesson played out, as many as four times and not less than twice. I guess it makes sense that the Guy who "knows where every sparrow falls", would have something to do with where whitetail deer end up. It should be no surprise when it is "deer heaven" (our family's food supply). There is really nothing more that I need to learn about hunting, but I will still take all the free advice that I can get, especially from this site. Speaking of that, thank you Chefhunter for convincing me to fork over $ 6 for a Butt-out II. That tool has added at least an hour of "prime-time" over the last (2) years. And where would I be without that PA chest girth chart that G-man so generously provided.

You might be able to if you added a screw to the loop, like Chuck did, so that you did not have to pull the trigger on each shot. That might let you riddle a deer at close range, just like them two outlaws.

May you all enjoy this blessed Holiday.

Something looked familiar about that pose

A few bright spots in it not passing are that I will not need to spend another $300 or more on a backup crossbow, and the archery course will still not be required to hunt with one over the last two weeks of archery. It will be hard enough to hold my daughters attention thru one 8 hour hunter safety course let alone two. In addition, this gives us another excuse to hit the 3 days of legal crossbow, almost a month earlier, up at the in-laws place in the Northern zone. I guess it wont hurt to leave all the antlerless deer unmolested around our farm and my folks in the southern zone until the rut starts. When they give you lemons, make lemonade.

If it does pass, and full inclusion of crossbow is included, the sky will not fall and the world as we know it will not end, just as it did not in the neighboring states of PA and Ohio. I will mostly look forward to getting out there after some antlerless deer with my crossbow, before all the early archery pressure drives them nocturnal as happened the last (4) seasons. I will also fork over a few bucks for an upgraded crossbow, and to have a backup, as soon as I get the word that it passes. The anti's can take comfort in the fact that Oregon remains the only state that has never and still does not allow any deer hunting with a crossbow.

The Marlin also has few features that make it particularly good with a low-power scope. Removing the screw that holds the lever, and taking out the bolt lets you look right thru the bore at a target. Adjusting the scope's zero to that spot usually puts you on the paper, at 50 yards, with the first shot. A side tang, that mounts to the hammer, is cheap and makes it easy to pull it back real fast with the scope. Having a side eject, and the ability to mount the scope directly on the top of the receiver is probably the biggest advantage, over most of the other makes, when it comes to mounting a scope.

I went on my first Adirondack deer hunt, about 25 years ago, with my full-sized, Ruger M77, bolt-action 30/06. While still-hunting thru some thick cover, between the main highway an overgrown pasture, I jumped (3) deer, two of which ran straight away from me, while the third ran off to my left. I found the two that ran straight away in the scope and neither had antlers. I swung the rifle towards the one to my left, but the long barrel hit a branch and I was not able to get that one in the scope before it disappeared. A subsequent examination of the tracks in the mud indicated that one was probably a buck. I blamed having the wrong gun for missing a chance at that deer. When I got home, I bought a new Marlin 336 30/30 with a 3X scope. That compact, fast-handling gun was fun to shoot. That fall, I took it for backup on a Colorado elk/mule deer hunt, where I carried it for Elk on the last day. I fell down on my primary gun the day prior (Ruger M77), while dragging a mule deer carcass thru some rocks, so I was thankful for the backup. I did not see any elk on that trip, and that turned out to be the only day that I actually hunted big game with it. The following summer I fired it at a woodchuck from about 50 yards and missed it clean. I am not sure how I missed, but I did not trust it after that. A friend won a Canadian bear hunt in at a gun raffle later that summer, and I let him borrow it. He said that it worked very well on his bear. I ended up trading the Marlin for a Savage bolt-action 22/250, which I left at my folks place for woodchucks. I did not miss that gun until I started hunting the Adirondacks again, about 10 years later. Once again, my heavy, long bolt-action was just not the right gun for many situations up there, especially still-hunting, thru and around heavy cover, in windy, rain/snow conditions. My father in law has a brand-new, unfired Marlin 336 with a scope still in the box at his house up there. Looking at it, on a windy snowy opening day a couple years ago, made me miss the one I had. Last summer, I traded another scoped Ruger M77 bolt-action 22/250 for a new open-sight, Marlin 336BL 30/30. That compact lever-action should be ideal for deer hunting in and around the heavy cover in the windy/rain/snow conditions where my 30/06 bolt action is so lacking. I have yet to carry it on a hunt however, as the weather conditions on all the days I hunted up there last year were ok for a scope, so I carried my Ruger 30/06 (and did not see any deer). I am hoping for a little bad weather up there this fall, so I can use that Marlin lever action. It seems to work real well for popping jugs of water, off-hand from ranges under 75 yards. I don't really "like" any weapon until I kill a deer with it however. I am also going to try and talk my father in law into letting me use his scoped Marlin 336 up there on "good weather" days. I have plenty of ammo, and will take some up there and sight it in the next time we head up there on Memorial day weekend. I got him a nice whitetail shoulder mount up there already, to decorate his house and now he wants a bear rug. That should be enough to convince him to let me use his rifle rather than just let it sit in a box.

The older I get (53 now), the more comfortable I like to be while hunting. I have a few nice blinds now that allow me to stay out of the bad weather. This year, I am going to remove the lower ladder section from my last high tree stand, dropping it down to a more comfortable level. If and when the day comes that I can no longer get out of the house, I will continue to hunt from my bedroom window, right up to my last breath on Earth. After that, I will continue hunting thru eternity, up there in "The Happy Hunting ground".

Four Seasons Whitetails ranch to roast the "fatted-calf". Chefhunter arrived with his butt-out tool, using it as a bore gauge to verify the "perfect" shot placement and to remove the large intestines as clean as a whistle. The undamaged tenderloins were given to FSW/RWH. He ate them raw, and immediately converted from a trophy hunter to a full-fledged meat hunter, repeating as he wandered off that "its brown-down from now on". Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

You can't legally hunt deer with that one in NY. It is only 11.3" wide uncocked, which is well short of the 17" legal minimum.

I do not support it, but I think a nation-wide ban on all semi-autos is very likely within the next (5) years. The "assault weapon" definition is too hard for the smart-phone stupified masses to understand. Full autos were banned shortly after the previous Valentine's day massacre in the early 1900's, so it should come as no surprise when they ban semi's, after this last one in the early 2000's. I will miss my Ruger 10/22 a little for squirrel hunting, but life goes on. I will miss my dad's Browning sweet-sixteen shotgun a little more. He only let me use it once, on a grouse hunt. I went 2 for 2 with it, and they were both difficult shots. I never got close to that kind of 100 % kill percentage with my pump or side by side shotguns. I would like to see the line stay at full-autos. Bump stocks should be included under that definition.

My father in law has used them in the winter, mostly standing on a concrete floor in an unheated dairy barn, for many years, and he swears by them. He uses colder-rated, but slightly bulkier white ones on the really cold days and nights. About 12 years ago, he gave me a new pair of the black ones for Christmas. They were so goofy looking, that it took a long time for me to give them a try. 5 winters ago, after my feet got cold one too many times while wearing my old felt-lined packs, I decided to give them a shot. The last time I used them was last winter, on a dawn to dusk sit on the last Sunday of ML season, when the temp was in the teens the whole time. My feet have never got cold in them, with just a light pair of wool socks, even during long motionless sits on a stand. I don't find them too bulky or heavy for walking, and the traction they provide has been very good on all surfaces, especially up in the Adirondack mountains. The waterproof feature is nice, but they are low and only good to about 12". I needed to traverse a deep and wide ditch at home several times last year, to retrieve a doe that I shot on the other side. I put one foot down in a foot of water, took as long of a step I could into about two feet of depth in the center, then another step into a foot on the other side. By moving as fast as I safely could, and because the boot fit tight around the ankle, I managed to pull that off twice and stay dry. Unfortunately, the rope I had tied to the dead doe snapped while she was still on the opposite bank, forcing me into two more crossings. By the fourth one, the submerged foot got wet and I was thankful for the wool socks. They are the only boots I have used for hunting in cold weather hunting for the last 5 years , and are showing no signs of wear. I have no reason to consider any other type of boot for cold weather hunting (I am going to leave an long plank next to that deep ditch out back thru hunting season from now on and use that as a bridge).

It is cool that a Canadian made such a big contribution towards making sure his native land still speaks English.

That looks like it will make a nice strudy tree fort.