wolc123

You make a good point. The $60 Marksman pellet rifle that we bought our daughter for Christmas came with a 1" tube 4X Chinese scope, in addition to fiber-optic sights. It looks to be of pretty decent quality. I probably will not use it though, because she needs the practice with open sights for the high school rifle team. I usually go with mid-range scopes on my rifles and deer guns, currently having an old 1-1/2X Weaver, a couple Redfield Low-Pro widefields variable power (2-7X & 3-9X), and a couple 3X Bushnell Banners. Most are over 20 years old, none has ever fogged and they all hold zero and have clear focus. The Redfields are exceptionally good in low light conditions, even though they are not the top-end "Illuminator" models. We are always going to have a few who are hung up on the "you get what you pay for" thing. Personally, I think "a fool and his money are soon parted" is a better fit for most of those folks.

When I first bought my entry-level crossbow (4) years ago, I considered a scope upgrade. The on/off/intensity knob was quite difficult to rotate on the cheap battery- powered lighted-dot scope that it came with. My daughter would need to use a pair of pliers to turn it. Other than that issue, I really like that cheap lighted-dot scope. It has worked very well on all three bucks that I have used it on (still waiting for the first antlerless deer to present a good shot). Last fall, I killed my largest buck with it to date, deep in the woods and in the last few minutes of legal light. Having the ability to adjust the intensity and color (red or green) of those dots, while difficult, is a nice feature. In bright mid-day conditions out in the open the highest intensity is nearly perfect, as is the lowest in low-light conditions deep in the woods. I always use the green. The top dot works well out to 35 yards, and the middle at 50, which is as far as I would shoot at a deer with this 300 fps crossbow. The lower dot would probably work for targets at longer range. My biggest fear with that scope is the battery going dead during a hunt so I am always careful to carry a spare. I am no longer considering a scope upgrade for this crossbow, because one of my favorite theories has always been: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". If my daughter want's to use it some day, I can turn it on or off for her, or she can carry a pair of pliers in her pocket. I also lost the rope-pulley draw device for that crossbow last fall, in the excitement after killing that big buck. I don't know if she could draw it with the pair of direct-pull chain-clip & t- handles that I made up to replace it. Those are much faster for me than the rope pulley was, and may even allow for a quick second shot from up in a stand, if a group of antlerless deer ever shows up. That little crossbow is only 150 pound draw weight, so she might be able to handle it.

I am sure he is very thankful that you passed that buck. I know I would be if I was in his shoes. Thanks for doing the right thing, which more than makes up for the name calling.

In no case am I not shooting if it is a safe shot and I have a tag. Ideally, he has cast both and can go on a DMP tag. That way, I can still use my buck tag on another buck with a 3" or larger antler. I prefer killing and butchering bucks, because there is always less fat to trim and they take me less time to process. They taste the same and you can not eat antlers. The meat is what matters to me and my family.

Prayers sent.

I may be silly but I do eat pretty good. Our kid's really loved the hoagies made from 3-1/2 backstrap that we had for dinner tonight. I still have the euro drying out in the barn with the upper teeth in it. I suppose a pro like FSW could use that for more accurate aging. I am just rough estimating the age using the PA chest girth table combined with the table of average weights & age in the NY hunting regs pamphlet.

I have limited recent experience with bucks over 3-1/2 as FSW just pointed out. About 20 years ago, I gained possession of a big, non-typical 12 point, road-kill. He was probably a bit older, and produced a lot of good tasting venison, even after trimming off all the road rash. You must have me mixed up with someone else who said older deer taste bad. As long as they eat good food, are killed cleanly, gutted quick, and properly aged, they all taste about the same to me. Except of course for the 1/2's, which make up in quality what they lack in quantity.

I wonder if the guy on the left found that buried on oak island.

I can use a DMP on a button buck. Unfortunately, it has been 6 years since I shot one, but it sure has not been for lack of trying. We have been blessed with a couple thru that drought, with help from others. There is still a roast in the freezer, that I am saving for a special occasion. Those "fatted-calfs" can not be beat on the table. Using a buck tag on a 1-1/2 year old is wasteful, because a 2-1/2 (like I killed 2 years ago) or 3-1/2 (like last year) taste the same and produce a lot more equal-quality meat. Only the 1/2's are in that "special" class by themselves. Being a chef, you should appreciate that.

To reduce the deer population, in the WMU's where the DEC has struggled, the best solution would be full-inclusion of the crossbow. I live and hunt in one of these zones (9F). I have watched the same thing happen every year. After a week or two of bow season, the wise old does realize what is going on, and go mostly nocturnal. A vertical bow is not very effective on them, because those deer are seldom alone, and it is very difficult to fool multiple sets of eye's while making the draw. I am certain that I could fill s few DMP tags each year, if I could get out there starting October 1 with my crossbow. Most folks know that old does are tougher to harvest than old bucks, and putting ML's in early would backfire and make them go nocturnal even faster. It takes a week or two for the human scent to switch them, while those loud bangs would do it in one morning. That said though, I am ok with the way things are now, but only because I have access to a great spot in the Northern zone, where the crossbow opens mid-October for 3 days, followed by a week of ML, prior to gun season. I am also very thankful that the crossbow gets peak-rut time in the Southern zone. Keeping all those surplus does around makes that even better.

Thanks for the easy question. It takes about 200 pounds of venison per year to provide for the needs of my immediate family. In general, larger antlered bucks also have larger bodies. That is the only reason that I have passed a few smaller antlered bucks early in the season(s). A good example of that would be the 14 day SZ crossbow season 2 years ago. About midway thru that season, a 1-1/2 year 3-point with antlers about 4" long almost begged me to shoot him, standing broadside across an open field at 15 yards, stopping, and looking away. It was more the small body than the small rack that caused me to hold off. Less than 5 minutes later, a 2-1/2 year old with a busted up but much larger rack and body presented a slightly more difficult shot, which I made. Had I used that tag on the smaller buck, it would have cost me a significant amount of venison. A neighbor killed that little buck a couple weeks later with his shotgun and was a little upset about it because he had to use his buck tag on it. He did not see the tiny rack and thought he was shooting at a doe. You may not like meat hunters, but I for one like you very much, especially if you are in zone 9F or 6C. Those little bucks you pass on might well be what keeps us from having to eat more chicken on some years. Keep up the good work.

You got that right. In this case, they put up all kinds of signs in the parking lot, pointing the way to the new signal. Someone apparently still felt the need to take a left turn onto busy Transit, rather than drive over to the new signal.

Loosing the meat would suck. Hopefully, this story will help keep more mandatory AR's out of NY, so it can remain the meat-hunter's paradise that it is today. Voluntary restraint can be a good thing. I have held off on a few of legal bucks over the years. Most often, when I did that I was rewarded later with one that had larger antlers and more meat. I have yet to punch a buck tag and later have a crack at a larger one while I was out doe hunting. I thought this was going to be the year, but no suck bad luck.

How were the BBQ burgers ?

I will. Hopefully, she will be back when it get's a little closer to planting season. Her brassicas on mature clover trick helped account for the bulk of our venison last year.

This was a break-action Marksman that Dicks was selling at half price before Christmas. It has a decent looking 1" tube 4X scope (that I will probably not mount) and fiber optic sights.

That is good to know. The $60, .177 cal pellet rifle, that we just got our daughter for Christmas, does 1000 fps. Maybe I will try it on some squirrels, if it warms up a little bit next weekend. It sounds like it should have plenty of energy to get the job done. The relative silence, compared to a .22 LR, might make it a little faster to get a limit. It has been a long time since I killed a squirrel with open sights and I am looking forward to the challenge.

Michigan don't sound so good for the meat hunter. Stories like that make me thankful to live here in NY, where we have plenty of deer and laws that make it easy to meet my family's protein needs with "organic" free-range venison. I don't mind the taste of beef, but properly aged, corn-fed venison is just as good and way better for you. I may have had a better meal than the button buck roast we enjoyed for dinner last night, but I can't remember when.

Story's like that make me wonder why anyone would want mandatory AR's. I am very thankful that we don't have them here in NY. It seems like "trophy" hunting is starting to fall out of favor, while meat-hunting is on the increase. That means we should be free from mandatory AR's here in NY for a few more years anyhow.

I smell a button buck roast in the crockpot. My stomach is growling now.

Excellent advice right there

It definitely pays off to practice more difficult situations than you would expect while hunting. Look at some of the stuff "Chief AJ" does on youtube. That guy can hit a flying aspirin with a BB gun, or a clay bird with a .22LR, every time. There is no substitute for shear volume of practice. No matter what your skill level when you start, anyone can make it better thru practice. Those who say you need to use your actual hunting weapon for all your practice are just feeding the ammo industry and making a lot of unnecessary noise. 100 practice shots with a BB or pellet gun will do you more good than 10 with a 30/06 and cost you a fraction of the money. I use a fair amount of 20W oil to keep my daughter's Red-ryder in shape, but I think it would be tough to wear out that Chinese-steel, smooth-bore, $30 gun. It has over 5000 shots thru it now, and is still going strong.

Does that mean you will now support full inclusion ?

Our older daughter got a 1000 fps, .177 cal break-action pellet gun for Christmas. Dick's had it on sale for $60. We don't have any pellets yet though. I will pick some up this weekend and see how it works. The rifled barrel and pellets should be better for longer range practice than the smoothbore Red-Ryder. It came with a 4X scope and decent looking fiber-optic sights. We will probably leave the scope off to start, since the open sights are closer to what she uses on the high school rifle team.

Ever since the run-up of ammo cost, I do 99 % of my off-season practice with a BB-gun (prior to that I used a .22 rimfire). My favorite shooting game involves a beer or soda can, hooked by the tab onto a wire, attached to a tree branch. I bought an adult-sized stock and a big loop for my daughter's Daisy Red-ryder. That provides the same LOP as my deer weapons, and allows the bb-gun to cycle almost as fast. The objective of the game is to see how few bb's it takes, and/or how long it takes to cut the can in half. It gets tougher, when you get down to the last narrow strip of aluminum. Cutting off the clip, to drop the top half of the can, adds even greater challenge. Wind, or motion from previous bb impacts, get's you some great experience at "moving targets". 5000 bb's can be had for $5, so practice cost is minimal. You get a lot more practice in a lot less time this way than you do by shooting cans off a rail. The only downside, is you also get a lot less cardio workout by not having to run back and forth to set the cans back up. Time is the ticket though, and having a few thousand rounds of practice under your belt by deer season is a great confidence builder. The real payoff happens during deer season, where all that practice on tiny moving targets, with open sites, in the offhand position, makes killing and recovering deer (even if they are moving), with a scope, from a rest, about as easy as taking candy from a baby. You still need to take a few shots each season with your deer weapons to check the zero however.