wolc123

Is it an over/under or side/side. If God intended for us to shoot over/unders He would have put our eyes that way.

They sure are purty but form should follow function and they fail the later part. Don't do it folks. Our house was lost to a fire around Christmas many years and it is not fun. My old deer grinder, that got saved while submerged by the fire-fighters water down in the basement, still has the burn-marks on it. That still serves to give me a timely reminder of fire safety every fall.

Prayers sent.

Getting back to the OP's question after the timely Jesus diversion: I think more deer will be harvested during bow season after full inclusion for two reasons: First, more hunters will be able to participate. Second, if we assume the crossbow is slightly more effective than the compound, then the harvest success percentage of the participants may increase a bit. I will admit a little selfishness of my own on this one, as I would love it if my 12 and 13 year old daughters could help me fill the freezer and not just empty it. I was not able to fill 2 of my 4 DMP's this season and I think I could have easily done that if we had full inclusion. I don't see an increased harvest of deer during bow season as a bad thing. Venison supplies most of my family's protein and less of it usually gets wasted by arrows (or bolts), than it does from bullets. Also, the warmer weather during bow season makes it more comfortable, especially for the kids. I live in a zone (9F) that is grossly overpopulated with deer and letting the crossbow in would make it a lot easier to get the herd in balance. The deer go nocturnal here real fast after the guns start going off. As far as what will happen to the longbow, recurve, and compound, I fully support their continued use, after full inclusion, as long as the users put in the time and effort rquired to become profficient in their use. It is a lot easier to get a bad hit with any of those than a crossbow, which can be fired off a rest, using telescopic sights, and does not need to be drawn with the deer in close.

Please keep them Jesus bumps coming guys. We just can't get too much of Him as His Birthday is fast approaching. The more help I can get from you other folks the better.

Did anyone else notice that the dissapearing poll on this site in the bowhunting section was showing that bowhunters supported full inclusion by 2:1 over leaving things like they are. ? To me, that say's it all and clearly indicates that it is just a small minority of selfish elitists who are preventing it. As far as the "selfish elitist" term goes, the first time I saw or heard that applied to that minority of bowhunters, was from Babe Winkleman on one of his hunting or fishing shows. Certainly not "politically-correct" but spot-on in describing the reason they don't want the crossbow in "their" season. Why should people who are too weak, or don't have the time to become proficient with a "real" bow be able to hunt at the same time as them? If the hordes of handicapped, very old, women and children are allowed into the woods during their "special time", it will make things more difficult for them. Big, tough, strong guys should get a time when they can have all the deer to themselves, right ? It sure appears that they are fighting a loosing battle, but I give them some credit for putting up a good fight. Much like the Brits during the Revolution, the Rebs during the Civil war, or the Axis during WW 2, they have won quite a few battles, but are clearly on the wrong side in the War. The minority never prevails over the majority in the long run and the cream always rises to the top, no mater how much you shake the milk. Merry Christmas everyone and bring on the Cross-bow. Certainly we know what side my buddy Jesus would be on with this one, and the side He supported has never and will never loose a War. Listening to the dying gasps of the loosers is certainly entertaining though, so lets keep it up for a few more pages anyhow. What else have you got tough guys?

The rental heavy-duty rotary mower for the skidsteer is a good place to start. Forget about the tiller as it won't work with 5 years of root growth. A small boom sprayer for the UTV would be the next piece to get. This is how I would develop your plot: 1.) Bush hog the area you want to plant in the spring after it gets dry enough so you don't get stuck. 2.) Get a soil test and add lime if needed. 3.) Spray roundup in early summer to nuke the weeds. 4.) Get a tractor in the 20-40 hp range, and a 4 to 8 ft wide disk and scratch up the ground with it in the late summer. Or sub this step out to a neighbor. Don't try to turn over them roots with a plow, just let them rot away over a few more years after the tops are cut off and the sprouts sprayed. 5.) Broadcast with a mix of winter wheat (or cerial rye), and soybeans. Cultipack (if you dont have one of those you can just drag a log around sideways and do ok). You can also just use the utv tires with multiple passes. Broadcast with white clover, then cultipack again (90 degrees from the first direction) That will get you a good hunting plot for next season. The sprouting soybeans are like candy to deer and will draw them in first, possibly lasting until early bow season. Next, the wheat will kick in and keep them fed into the winter. The following spring, bush-hog the wheat (or rye) before it goes to seed. The clover will feed the deer for 3-5 more years with just a mowing or two per season. In later years, after the roots have rotted, you can turn over some spots of the clover with a plow and put in some nitrogen loving plots like corn or brassicas.

They have it in Ohio where things are better. Can you name any state where it made it worse? If the vast majority of NY state bowhunters support full inclusion, as was indicated by the "dissapearing" poll on this site then why shouldn't we have it? I could understand how you might have missed that one, but can you present a single piece of evidence how it would make things worse. I just provided 2 how it would make things better. Just admit it, all you got is selfish elitism.

Ohio might offer you a pretty good clue on what it will be. As far as I know they rank well above NY in deer hunter satisfaction and they were the first state to have full inclusion. There is plenty of evidence out there that it will make things better and none that indicates "the sky will fall". The poll that was posted on this site in the bow-hunting section was indicating that NY bowhunters on this site support full inclusion by nearly a 2:1 margin over leaving it like it is, when it "disappeared" because it must not have fit "someones" agenda. That "someone" was no doubt part of the elitist , selfish minority of bowhunters who are desperately trying to hold the line using any means possible. Had that poll showed a majority in opposition you had better believe it would not have gone away.

Same to you Cynthia. Happy Birthday Jesus.

I have yet to have one run off farther than 40 yards, after being struck anywhere (usually behind the shoulder) with an SST. I can always count on loosing a few chops with a high lung hit. I only hit one this year, with a 12 ga SST, and that shot struck high, breaking her spine. Our freezers were nearly full, so I gave the big doe to my brother in law. He always grinds the whole thing anyhow, and mixes 50:50 with ground beef for making jerky. It will be interesting hear how much meat he had to trim away.

There was a lot of bad bullets back when shotgun sabots first came out. I remember drilling a few deer thru the lungs and the exit hole was rarely much bigger than the entry They had a big improvement in accuracy, over the old fosters, but they really forced one to use his tracking skills. The Hornady SST and others that are out now are vastly improved as far as easy recovery goes, the only drawback being increased meat damage.

I probably won't go out until mid February when the kids have their mid-winter break. I love catching Lake trout then. They seem to fight more thru the ice than they do in the summer. When you hook into one of them, after dealing with multiple smallmouth bass and perch, it is quite the change. One nice thing about getting out early would be that it is faster to make the holes. My wife and kids love fried perch, but I just can't get too exited about catching them, due to the lack of pull. I also prefer eating grilled or baked bass. The oil in them keeps them moist, unlike perch or walleye, which tend to dry out too much when cooked that way. The lamest fish I ever caught thru the ice was a largemouth bass. I remember pulling a fat one in on a tip-up on Brantingham lake. It probably weighed more than 7 pounds. It felt like I was lifting up a piece of driftwood off the bottom, barely even shaking its head on the way up from about 10 feet down. The hardest part was getting it up out of the hole, due to it's girth. Unfortunately, I did not have a camera, but a girl was out there ice-skating and got to see it before I stuffed it back down thru the hole. I used to catch whitefish there, which were also fairly lame fighters but excellent eating when smoked with apple wood.

Prayers sent

Now that I stirred up a little interest with the nutty diversion, it is time to get this thread back on point. I understand the natural reluctance of hunters and fisherman to share information on what works for them (it is best to keep the competition in the dark, right?). I did leave out the number one thing I did right to enable my most productive ever, venison-producing season this year. That would be keeping things right with OUR Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It sounds easy but it is not always for many folks. Here is what I do: #1 Read the Bible every day. 10 minutes in the morning gets me thru two pages. I can do that in the morning while my car is warming up. God's word is written down - try reading it. Kill #2 (my largest) this year was taken on one of two days that I took my Bible up in the stand and read it there. My second largest racked buck ever (check out picture in last years DIY euro mount thread) was killed as a direct result of having a Bible up in the stand. Two of the three deer that our family was blessed with last season were received (from others) on the only day that I had the Bible in the blind that year. #2 Pray often. No need to explain this one. God wants to pour out his blessings on his creation (us). Don't be scared to ask for it sometimes. He don't always answer right away. I had to wait for the next morning for the antlerless deer I asked for this year (kill #1). #3 Bring yourself and your family to church regularly. I do skip a few during hunting season but Kill #2 was on a Sunday afternoon after I skipped the morning hunt to take my family to church. It was not the first time that happened. #4 (Kill #3). Do stuff for others. Take a kid fishing now and then, or offer someone else your best stand. They are not kidding when they say it is better to give than to receive. You always get more back when it is not your intent. Merry Christmas everyone.

I am going to get after the squirrels with my crossbow now that deer season has ended. I have not had any trouble with it on deer (2 for 2, both very clean kills at 59 yards and 20 yards), but there is always room for improvement. If I could hit a 1" kill zone consistently on squirrels, then hitting the 10" kill zone on a deer would be like taking candy from a baby. To the OP, I would recommend building your confidence with your bow that way. If you miss a squirrel, no big deal. If you try to build your confidence by being less selective with your shots on deer, it will most likely backfire on you, and you will end up hitting some outside the vitals and not recovering them. It is a lot easier to hit a deer outside of the vitals than in, just as it is a lot easier to miss them clean than hit them at all. A fair number of "experienced" bow-hunters have posted on here about wounded and lost deer and even "clean misses" this year. Do you really want to join that crowd? After you kill a few squirrels with your bow, you will probably reach a point where you can pick out the hair you want to hit on a deer and kill them clean almost every time. Squirrels are also tastey and abundant.

Certain states (CO for sure) require your original hunters ed card (from your home state) to buy a license. If you stay in NY, you will be ok, as TF just pointed out.

Honestly no, I fried up sets from a 6 month BB and a 2-1/2 year old buck this year, and these looked to be right in between, maybe 2-1/2" long and 1" diameter. I just left them back in the field this time however as they are only good if harvested fresh. Maybe my internet stalker the chef can provide a good recipe if you are interested.

Corn is the only plot that you can bank on for holding deer on your land during daylight hours. The reason is simple - it provides cover, in addition to carbs, exactly when the deer need both the most. Brassicas might work on a cold year, but usually only for the last 5-10 minutes of daylight, during late ML season. The neighbors and I took 6 deer in and around 4 acres of corn that I put in this spring. That action, which started just before the end of archery season, finally wrapped up yesterday afternoon when a neighbor kid pulled a little 8-pointer out of the corn, that he killed with his ML. Cover is a lot more important than food, and if you can't swing the corn (which provides both), it might be best to just let some areas grow up into heavy cover of whatever saplings, goldenrod, etc, just springs up naturally.

I think you did the right thing. I would have done it myself had I been fortunate enough to fill one of my last two DMP's. Not only did you take out a deer that may not have survived the winter anyhow, but some less fortunate folks may benefit from the food he provides. The experts there will be able to make the call on whether or not it is fit for human consumption.

ML and rifle deer were in woods, crossbow and shotgun were in field this year.

I checked out the gut pile, back in my corn field this afternoon, and found a nut-sack. I called the kid's uncle and found out it was a small 8-point, probably a 1-1/2 year old, based on the size of the nuts.

Deer carcasses and road-kills work pretty good. I place them in a pile, about 100 yards behind my bedroom window and shoot the coyotes at night with a .22 rimfire. They are thin-skinned and easily killed with a yellow jacket, placed behind the shoulder. The relatively silent report does not wake up my kids.

Tie: The big smallmouth bass I caught (on a bucktail jig), and released on opening day of Northern Zone early ML deer season and watching my daughters target practice with a .22 rimfire for the first time, on Thanksgiving weekend up in the Adirondacks. Getting to kill a deer shortly after each of those did make them even sweeter however. I would have slightly regretted time spent fishing or making noise shooting targets if I had to make the long drives home without any venison.

Now we have reached the end of deer season in NY state (most of us anyhow), what did you do that enabled you to fill tag(s) this year? There was no big, shoulder-mount worthy trophy bucks for me this year, but more pounds of boneless venison than on any of my prior 35 years hunting, and for that I am very thankful. 1st kill (Antlerless only bow/ML tag): I filled this tag with a 1-1/2 year old, medium-sized doe in the NZ early ML season. The first thing I did right on that hunt was to get myself into decent shape so that I could effortlessly cover a lot of territory and locate the deer. I also had a plan of what to do with a carcass in the extreme warm conditions (daytime high in the lower 80's) and dressed appropriately for the conditions. I adjusted my hunt plan on the morning of that kill to take advantage of the conditions I found (wet leaves, steady wind - perfect conditions for still hunting). 2nd kill (Antlered/Antlerless bow/ML tag): I filled this tag with a 2-1/2 year old, 5-point buck (started out as an 8 but got busted up early in the rut) in the SZ crossbow season. The first thing I did right on that one was to pass on two legal deer that would have otherwise used the tag. The first one was another, larger doe, up in the NZ on my early ML hunt and the second was a scrawny, tiny-racked 3-point, that almost begged me to shoot it 5 minutes before his big brother showed up. The most important thing I did right on this one was planting and maintaining some standing corn. He actually still had his hind quarters in the corn when my bolt struck him behind the shoulder from under 20 yards away. It was a tough year to grow corn with the worst drought we have ever had this summer. We got some rain, just in time to make a meager crop, and I preserved what I had by aggressively trapping the coons and spraying the weeds. 3rd kill (DMP #1): I transferred this tag to a friend and he punched it on a fat button buck on opening day of gun season. He likes hunting but does not care for venison. He recently retired from the army (E-7), with several combat tours, starting with the first Persian gulf war. He made a fine 100 yard shot on that BB, destroying very little of the top-quality, corn-fed meat. I was thankful that I let him use that stand that morning. I may have missed the vitals of that little buck, based on how high I hit his momma, when she showed up at the gut pile for milking time later that afternoon. 4th kill (DMP #2): This big doe was probably the momma of the BB up above. I killed her later that day from the same stand. My shot, behind the shoulder, from 100 yards, struck just low enough to break her back. A second shot (to the brain) was needed to finish her. Once again, this doe and her fawn would never have ended up in our family's freezers were it not for the standing corn that remained on our farm until a few weeks into gun season. 5th kill (Gun-season buck tag): This tag went on a fairly heavy-bodied, but small-racked Adirondack 6-point buck, that I was fortunate enough to take over the long Thanksgiving weekend up at my in-laws place. Even though all of the deer I had seen up there in my prior 12 days of hunting this fall were while still hunting, I chose to sit and ambush on the afternoon of this kill. The snow was just too loud and crunchy for still hunting, and I had located a group of does in some thick cover down in a valley. I got downwind of that valley and chose my spot along a trail where I thought a buck would use to scent check his harem. Although he approached from the opposite direction that I expected, I was able to make adjustments and kill him very cleanly within 15 minutes of taking my seat along that trail. Oddly enough, this Adirondack buck also had a belly-full of corn. My father-in-law said there was some unharvested corn a mile or two up the road from his camp. Tag soup (DMP #3 & 4): Even tough all our freezers are now stuffed, I hunted all I could thru last weekend, hoping to donate some for the homeless folks, but I did not see any deer on the last two weekends. A neighbor kid did haul one (not sure what) out of my front corn-plot this afternoon, that he hit across the road with his ML. That makes (3) for the neighbors, plus (3) for us this year on 4 acres of corn.