Localqdm

When has the world not been changing? What liberties, specifically, are being threatened or taken? What is so dire that you can envision a collapse of the American way of life, which is the envy of people across the globe, anytime in the foreseeable future? Yes the world has 'always' changed, the difference is today the US is not in the same position it was the last hundred yrs. Yes, some of the country still looks beautiful and most Americans have all the toys they could want. What I'm saying is the machine is broke and the 'empire' may not look the same in the coming decade or two. The backbone of American progress is now fittingly referred to as the Rust Belt. New threats to our liberty: HEALTHCARE BILL!! Look what just happened last yr in America!! UN ClimateChange Conference--this could change/eliminate our sovereignty overnight OUR DEBT is 14 TRILLION DOLLARS!!! We face the real possibility of financial failure like no other time in our history. UN Convention on the Rights of the Child--will STRIP parental rights in America Last couple presidents who assume more and more power Judicial activism Rise of Islam in America Terror/ Patriot Act/Right to Privacy Nuclear weapons in Iran/ N Korea--what happens if/when we CAN't afford to fight anymore? or a couple of our cities are nuked? Economy Taxes Just because the 'American Dream' is/was once a way of life here, doesn't mean its going to continue when the machine that fueled it is now rusty and may be broke. Rome, the greatest empire in history collapsed, we might to. I hope not.

I'm not saying America is going to collapse next week. But you seem to hold to the logic that "America has always pulled through in the past, so we will of course survive this." America isn't even 250 yrs old, look at the bigger picture. The world is changing. This isn't 1945. Our liberties are at risk/being taken.

Arrow, what nations in history that you know of have pulled out of a debt like we are facing? Did they do it by spending more, printing more, and borrowing more money like we are doing? Did it work in the past? Do you think America is somehow exempt from falling into the same enslavement as Communist Russia and China, Nazi Germany, the countries of the middle east, etc? Were those people just stupid? Are we too smart to have our rights and liberties taken from us, especially in a time of economic stress? I apologize if it sounds like I understand it all. I don't. I do think most Americans have no idea that we could be already over the edge or the point of no return. I agree w/those saying Americans are generally more interested in Hollywood and sports than they are in what is changing in Washington and the world. It is dangerous to assume America is fine because hey, for as long as we've lived, America was the richest and most powerful nation on earth. That is quickly changing.

I'm with ya Mr vjp. I think we're dumb : (my education included) Passing more tests in more subjects makes kids today good test takers or memorizers of facts. Yes many are book smart, but street smart in today's world is a different issue. Identifying what is going on in Washington and in the world, understanding a thorough history of our western civilization (how we got here and why), and understanding how our economy works and why ours is failing/doomed; are subjects I think most kids need to learn today.

So do you believe the Constitutional Congress were hypocrites or "unconstitutional" when they hired (with tax money) Christian chaplains for the house and senate?

There are hundreds or thousands of references to God by our founders. Just visit DC and look around. Read the Declaration of Independence, He's mentioned over and over again.

Virgil, Show us where the "separation of church and state" is in the constitution. Its simply not there. This cause has become a straw man in politics today. The founders were very much openly 'religious' and mentioned/credited God in their documents, speeches, meetings, etc. The ones who wrote the constitution, the Constitutional Congress decided to hire chaplains for the House and the senate. What they DID want to avoid (rightly) was a state church, not abolition of religion or God, in politics. You are quite wrong.

Do not compare Islam and Christianity as equal. Islam, from its book to its leaders, encourages and practices murder of the 'infidels', converts to other religions, etc. Jesus taught to love our enemies, turn the other cheek, give, suffer for him, etc. A man planned to burn the quran and Muslims were screaming in the streets death to us all. Yet someone converts to Christianity and they murder him. Do Christians react by protesting in the streets yelling, "kill all the muslims?" Not equal. Did people torture and kill in the name of Christ in the past, yes. But by definition they were not followers of Christ (Christians) as they did not emulate the one they claimed to be following. Where abuse happens in the name of Jesus, Christians will be the first to condemn the act. Where are the millions of Muslims, let alone ONE leader condemning the hate and murder prevalent in Islam today? People need to wake up and stop defending Islam. Look at the fruit of Islam in the world today, death, abuse, control, suspicion, devastation. I do not want the US to become like the countries of the Middle East or Indonesia where Islam is the law of the land. Christians HOPE others will repent and believe in Christ's death for the forgiveness of their sins, but recognize their freedom and individual accountability to God. Muslims KILL.

Agree with you on all of these, and wish NY would do some of the things other states did. Just think the poaching (and even the legal hunting) resulting from road sightings have a lot to do w/it. Its been argued that very few hunters in NY actually take more than one buck. Its also been argued that most of our bucks are taken opening weekend, even though we have a very long season. States w/split seasons actually help take more bucks (2 opening days). I'm not real convinced about there being that many less hunters out there. I know there are less, but its hard to get a tag in some of those states, and from my observation, most properties are hunted. Keep in mind that when the stats show less hunters per sq mi. that most of those sq mi. are just a big field. In some ways it may be easier to take a buck out there with more defined/smaller woodlots=easier to push or pattern deer. Just my take on it.

I have lived in OH and IN and most of my life here in NY. I wonder if the midwest produces more 'trophies' in large part due to the poaching here in NY. Maybe because there is little to no penalty here, but also due to the more productive poaching habitat here. I live and hunt in a heavy agriculture county--sort of like much of the midwest, with huge supplies of high protein (antler potential) food available. One big difference though, the acreage of the individual fields. I watch the deer all summer and know what is around, so do all the locals. In the midwest its different. I hardly ever saw deer from the road. The fields were overall much bigger. It could be a mile from the road to the woods. You can't effectively jack deer when you have no idea what is living back there. If no one knows a 4 yr old 160" is around, it isn't going to get poached and may not get legally hunted hard, since no one knows. Around here, if a big 2 yr old 120" is around, lots of people usually know, and the opportunity is usually there for poaching.

Thanks for all the info guys. Down in the gorge, what does the wind do? Are the thermals pretty predictable? Does it swirl badly? Just curious. If its blowing like west on top is there ANY predictability down in?

Robinson, I think you summed up the situation for a lot of us here in NY! ;D

Pat, You are right that we all have a sense of joy when we connect and take a deer. HOWEVER, I think hunters that have a soul, have a very close second sense of reality of LIFE lost and appreciation for the animal. Doesn't make us bleeding hearts, just normal humans that like to hunt. Its sad that it is becoming more common to find people with no regard for life and look at everything from the standpoint of its all for ME and what I can get out of it, or how it can generate a laugh. No sense of gratitude or humility.

That buck is FAT!

Nothing more frustrating than putting time,effort, $ into a property, setting up sanctuary areas, passing on young bucks and then watching some entitled 'local' blaze through past the line of posted signs like they own the place. Thats a good point gman. Its a hard balance of waiting for them to drop so you don't leave too much stink and pressure on the area and they drop somewhere else. But if you wait too long the other "owners" will have already come looking. Sad but true.

Anyone hunt any of these? Any deer there? They seem pretty wet. Any pics?

Patrockets, I don't think you understand the difference between Respect, Dignity and Honor and Value of life; you seem to confuse them with weakness or being "squeamish". You said,"i love deer for who they make me and the gratifying accomplishments they behold... " So is that all a deer's life means to you?

That's the first "big eight point buck," 10 pointer that I've ever seen!

Brandon, do you have any more pics of that last buck? Wow! Nice pics. Hope that hunter pic was you and not a surprise visitor. Anyone else notice deer detecting their infrared cameras? I have all flash cameras and am debating leaving the flash totally off next yr. Was contemplating going IR but if the deer see that too, not sure its worth it.

Food plots don't have to be a contest between neighbors. Usually those who shoot young deer also have little desire to plant food plots--not always but often. Thats fine and thats their privilege. Its also fine for their neighbor who has repeatedly sent those yearling 6pts their way for yrs to try to support a more complete habitat on his property and yes try to hold some deer there. That is not taking anything from anyone else, as the neighbors are also free to improve the bedding, brows, and food on their side--and they will have plenty of deer too, even if we are holding some on our side. As far as food plots altering natural deer patterns, sure. But so do deer drives and simply hunting in general--the more odor in the area, the less deer.

The winter usually gets me down, but last yr I got out dog or coon hunting at night a few times and really enjoyed it. Being away from the city, on a clear, cold, still night, sky full of stars, and a ground cover of snow, its a real different experience that I found some beauty in. Nice to be able to get out after sunset after the deer season frustration of sunset coming so early.

I like an overcast day like right after a rain or when snow has melted and everything is wet. The right combination of 'glisten' without glare, makes them stand right out. 2 yrs ago I found a bunch in Feb, last yr I think they held them longer near me and I think I found most of mine in late march or early april. It can be hard to spot them in cut corn, but I think the stubble helps knock them off, and often its where the deer are eating that time of yr. 2 yrs ago I think the winter was harder than last and I found 4 in what amounts to an apple orchard where they were pounding the buds on the branches. Last yr we hardly had snow here and the buds were not touched, and no sheds nearby.

This is the kind of thing that makes my wife really mad. She is fine with me hunting and killing an animal to bring home to eat. What she can't stand is the perverse mentalily of disrespect that she has seen from other hunters--leaving deer parts laying around in the yard, letting the dog chew on a head, and laughing about it. Whether you agree or not with qdm, I definitely like the QDMA logo of a healthy buck and a doe and a sprout of food. I like that portrayal of deer better than the skull and death look of "Bone Collector" stuff. I'm not saying a European mount is necessarily perverse, just that there is an attitude out there that glories in the killing and death of the animal, which does seem to border on a lack of respect for their life. I really enjoy hunting and I kill. That said I don't think its a healthy attitude to have to glorify death and reduce the animal to "Bone" or laugh about suffering. If you can shoot a deer and watch it die and not have some level of empathy, you really need to take a look at yourself.

Pat Rockets, why the slam on Christ/ Christians?

Do you guys notice any fear of the flash? I am certain that the older 2+ yr olds near me don't like it and tend to stay away of the flash area. I don't think they relocate, just avoid walking in front of the camera after they've experienced it once or twice. When I use 'burst' mode you can tell they're real cautious and usually don't show up again after that. Next yr I may leave the flash off and just shoot daytime.