Localqdm

I don't want to see a ton of red tape either. But I have hunted with others who grow up doing these drives unsafe and don't know any other way to hunt. These guys recruit others to hunt with them and the craziness breeds itself. This isn't isolated instances, we all know people like this. I went with some people once and was placed on a clear cut looking up the hill and down to the road. Someone was to be walking toward me over the hill and my only two shots were up over the crest of the hill or straight down to the road below. I watched a doe run by me at 40mph. When the guys showed up they razed me over why I didn't shoot. I will never hunt with them again. This is a place they have hunted for years and that is how they do it. Sad. So you can call people stupid or whatever, but at the end of the day, when it happens someones dead and it is sad. And its not always trigger happy Rambos to blame, especially if they were taught by a generation like I described. I think the hunters Ed system is a lot better today than it was when some of these guys started, and handed down their ways. So I'm sure that the education today is helping. Maybe there should be a greater emphasis on "drives" in the course?

We don't drive anymore for a few reasons, but safety is one. A lot of times you just really can't predict where they will go. If you've got a new or inexperienced/undisciplined hunter in the group it can be deadly. We seem to wound a lot less deer now. Drives often result in running shots where deer can end up wounded, travel long distances and die slow deaths unrecovered. But some people are good at it and its the way they hunt. I 've learned to be pretty picky of where I hunt and with who, though. Usually I won't hunt with a group doing drives. Where could you draw the line? If someone still hunts to another hunter, its kind of the same thing.

Right, that means most will relocate before their 1st hunting season w/antlers. The 1.5s on a property may be around for life, however long that may be.

I agree outdoorstom. Probably every one of those bucks was 1.5 (but obviously that's just a guess), and your spikes may turn out bigger than the 6 will in a couple of years. Lots of documented spikes turned out HUGE. Do what you got to do. I would pass, but that's me. If you need it, eat it. SplitG2, I really thought most dispersal happens BEFORE 1.5 and the buttons on your property are going somewhere else, not the 1.5's.

It is what it is and isn't going to change anytime soon. I understand that and am thankful for what I have, but it doesn't mean that we can't consider improving it for hunting and the deer.

Bubba, my bad, I assumed you hunted the Adirondacks. Still, a season that fits there isn't necessarily right for the rest of us. How many hunters you get on your 400 yd pc or your sq/mi? I guess I got a little defensive when you suggested I was "selfish". Do you bow hunt too? or are you strictly a "Gunhunter?"Want to know where you're coming from.

In unhunted areas I often see lots of bucks. yeah you see lots of groups of 'does' too, but those are very often groups of fawns too, w/ one third of them being buck fawns. Off hand observations can be pretty misleading. Even though I agree w/qdm and support the taking of does in areas w/stable deer populations, I don't agree w/the argument that many qdmer's make that there are super skewed buck:doe ratios. Most of these statements are made by observations during the season (when the population does get skewed again until the BB sprout their horns next season). In actuality I think its pretty hard to get past 3:1 unless you target BB on purpose. For those who disagree, try the math. Take a sample group. Eliminate every buck and let every doe walk. Add to that group a fawn birth of 50% buck fawns. Then eliminate every yearling buck for the next season. Add the next crop of fawns. Keep it going. Its pretty hard to get the depressing %s a lot of "qdmer's" claim.

Those pics look like deer yarding up, plus deer populations vary over just a couple sq miles. Lots of deer there, maybe nothing a mile away. Bubba, I don't think I'm being selfish, I'm just saying what it is around here. And I think you're right, in the N Zone the season is fine to be long. Farms in the S Zone are a lot different than the big woods you hunt. Its nothing for a 50 acre woods to be broken up 4 ways and have 8 or 10 or more hunters in it. How many hunters per sq mi do you see there? The deer don't have the cover here they do up there. When they get bumped out of the 50 acres, they can run .5 mi or more until they reach the next cover, where they get bumped again, and again, and again...or until they find a sanctuary and hole up. But they won't move again until dark. On these farms we don't have the luxury of miles and miles of public access. If the deer are pressured here, we can't just go a couple miles down the road through heavy cover and try there. We can't pick up a track and follow it for miles. We can't drive deer over an entire hillside, then go do another hill, and another. I'm not saying shorten it just for the bowhunter. Until Wed last week (middle of MZ), when my season ended due to travel, most deer here were totally nocturnal, except for the fawns. I don't even like the whole gun hunter vs bow hunter argument anyway. I hunt all weapon/seasons and think I'm looking at the big picture. I don't think we need to brand ourselves"Gunhunters" or "Bowhunters" only. If someone wants to hunt all fall, they can try the bow or ML. Just consider the possibility that NY has one of the longest gun seasons (esp in the cold northern part of the US) and it might have some negative implications to the deer and other methods of hunting.

I wish we could start w/1buck limit, but I do think a shorter shotgun season in SOUTHERN ZONE would help. Around me they get pushed around ALL season long, and we (the deer and myself ) would like it to quiet down quicker. It would benefit ML too. Basically, they are pushed completely nocturnal for 3+weeks. I think it would affect take in my area. Now will it ever happen is another issue.

That is a great buck! Don't want to argue, just curious as to why some think there wouldn't be a close buck:doe ratio in unhunted areas? NYantler, I think your post was pretty harsh.

Probably the best solution would be for local landowners to improve the food and habitat on their own property to hold the deer away from the apple farm. Create more cover and plant food plots. Then the farm won't get all the deer.

agree, plus it would have to be a LARGE apple farm with LOTS of cover around it that doesn't get hunted to hold that many deer.

“Operating an artificial light on lands inhabited by deer while possessing a firearm” is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of $200 to $1,000 and/or incarceration for up to 90 days." How does this work w/coon or predator hunting? Am I missing something here?, cause I know that is legal. Is this only referring to motor vehicles?

I am convinced deer DO NOT like a flash (young deer don't care or know any better though). Do any of you w/infrared notice if it spooks them. All ours are flash cameras, and I'm not really sure how much 'help' they are. They do take nice photos at night if the deer is close enough. I'm thinking of leaving the flash off next yr.

That's terrible. Kinda like bow hunting w/field tips.

NICE job Culver, and nice buck!!

Congrats! Sounds like a great season. I wasn't questioning whether you were legal or not . Just thought that was one HUGE button. ;D

Jordan, you mean you shot another deer, a button buck, or that one in the pic is a button? IF the pic is a button its the biggest I've ever seen!

"Most people are understanding." Maybe. What if you trespass on an 'anti' or someone who is not sure about hunting? Then they hear a shot and someone in orange walking in their woods. They may call the police, or at least come out yelling. I have a neighbor who checks on us every year, even though we are on our own side where we have permission. Also, people hunt differently. Some hunters are into managing their property. They study every inch. They might primp the woods to guide deer trails, build bedding areas, and plant food plots. They are probably meticulous scent freaks. They recognize that every footprint they leave on the ground is scent left behind. Every twig they touch is a definite warning sign to older deer. They themselves don't enter parts of their woods, or allow their scent to blow in areas, in order to hold deer on their property to increase their chances at harvest or growing older bucks. And they may pay a lease or thousands in taxes. Now I'm not saying that the land manager is a better hunter, just that he WON'T understand you trespassing, and WON'T appreciate it. He has worked hard at what he is doing, and sacrificed hunting the bedding areas on his property, that "your" deer bedded down in, and you may have walked through. I know people who won't hesitate to call the police, and don't care how much trouble they have to spend in court, or what it costs them. I don't really like to go that route, even though it really bothers me, for a few reasons. But others will-without question. All I'm saying is people have different priorities, views of hunting, and methods of hunting. Not everyone understands you tracking blood through their property without the courtesy to ask.

Sod, we do all have a bad shot once in a while, and we all are learning. It always feels bad to loose one though.

I had to get up and leave my stand Friday night because of this. I guess some people enjoy it and that is hunting to them. Kinda like a machine gun fight. When you see a three legged deer struggle to run in January when its 5 degrees out, or a deer with its face blown apart, it really seems sportsmanlike, doesn't it, to empty a gun on running deer. Sat night I helped my neighbors track a deer into our sanctuary that he shot at running. He blew both left legs off--just dangling. Now if I wasn't around to escort him on our side, and this deer wasn't found, wouldn't that be a nice way to die?

Sod, no one took your deer. I'm sorry you didn't get the meat, but You were trespassing and could have been arrested. Private property is private property. Ask first.

My cousin actually did find his blind blown away. It was staked down good. The wind broke one of the poles, blew it away and covered it in snow. Hope you find yours.

Lets see, yesterday on my morning hunt, I found boot prints of a trespasser through our sanctuary that our club has stayed out of for the past 2 yrs. Needless to say, I didn't see any deer on my hunt. Also found out one of neighbors is baiting. That explains alot about our last 2 seasons there. That was just my morning hunt. Then last night I set up on another property where I've patterned the deer leaving their beds to go eat, only to listen to guys who stand on our border, hammer away at running deer. Now that isn't exactly the worst thing I know, but these guys often pack like 6 hunters on a 20-30 acre FIELD. Yes a field, so you know where they hunt, the edge of everyone else's property. After their shooting someone else close by started blasting at least 20 rounds w/a pistol or small rifle, about 30 min before sunset. I would assume target practice, but the blasts sounded to be in different directions. I know, not necessarily doing something wrong, just strange and didn't help anything. I gave up and left early. As I drove by I saw the field hunters. I walked up and said hi as they were gutting a deer they just shot on our side. Nice. At this point in the season, I didn't even have it in me to say anything. Gun season in NY has always been like this for me. But the longer I hunt the more I find that my experienced yesterday seem to be the norm not the exception in my area. Earlier this week I was exiting a field edge at sunset, that had some deer in it--all fawns. I was creeping along toward the road and a car comes past seeing me. It passed the hedge row, sees the deer and honks the horn. Nice. Warning those fawns I just passed up. But when I think about my interaction w/other hunters, no wonder this driver thinks this way about hunting, and no wonder hunter reputation is suffering.

Easton Excel, muzzy 3 blade. In my older bow I use the cheap Easton carbon raiders--they shoot fine