G-Man

I know many hunters in Ohio where it is either or all season and the majority own both bow and a crossbow.. quick hunts they grab the crossbow..all day sits they take their bow.. I would bet money over 75% of crossbow hunters also own and use a bow. The only thing I am pushing is the fear of more hunters is moot as most are bow hunters who would be out there anyway...

It's the gallon per minute on the pump. And 700lbs is a lot of dirt lifting to give up especially if your gonna use a grapple . you can negotiate that valve thrown in if they want the sale just like a on a car sale. That is what I have a dk 35 se. I got it for the draft control same price as the dk35.. they wanted more I refused and started to walk out suddenly they were same price.. and I got loader for free when I bought back how they kept trying to sell me it saying I needed it I said no I'll make a weightbox for front.. next thing you know it was free...

It's all in the formula..just like Dec report numbers...lol

But from most of the responses her most crossbow owners/users seem to be bow hunters. I count 2 responded that are crossbow only "new hunters" this alone renders your argument invalid. According to you all these crossbow hunters( the majority seem.fo be bow hunters who picked it up and would be out there anyway.

Kioti is it in small tractors, they are heavier ( traction) they have more metal on them vs plastic, and as you said lift capacity which is really the gmp on the hydrolic pump. Lift is important. On front and rear.. you get more bang for the buck with a kioti. For example you can lift 1 ton with a 35 hp kioti, but need a 50hp Kubota to do the same.. that is a lot of money...to get same result

I got it right thru kioti

They do that with bows now..

Im for full inclusion , I'm selfish. I don't like camp being empty for a month because my friends age and health doesn't allow them to pull their bow anymore.. camp is so much better when all the old guys are there with their crossbows. Heck I'll say,it life is better with them there.

I know more bow hunters that pick up their bow shoot a dozen arrows and go hunting.. once your pins ,peep and kisser buttons are set ..they are no different. And how many actually practice during season.???? It starts the 1st of Oct and they shoot their deer the 12th of nov!! A month and a half of no practice!!! Most bow hunters are Hippocrates when it come to they don't need to practice they do the same thing every fall!!!

I disagree bow numbers were down but crossbow went up.. now are they being taken by former bow hunters who switched to crossbow for those 2 weeks? Or by new hunters to the sport in general, or by gun crossovers.. This to me is of utmost importance as gun target spots are not crossbow / bow spots and death by hemoraging is different the death by shock.. I find it very disconcerting that the bow course is not required.. if in fact the amount of crossbow hunters have no experience with bow.and bow techniques.

It's never in hands of Dec..our season isn't either

We need a poll to see who is a bow hunter that also crossbow hunts.. I see one xbow non bow hunter so far everyone else has one in addition to bow..

Statistic all the fact you never need and lacking the ones you do...lol. I do not know 1 crossbow hunter who didn't bowhunt previously.. I'm sure they exist. But if they pick it up in would assume They are a bit better than the average hunter..face it some people will never kill. A lot of deer ..

Yes but how many bow hunters are switching to crossbow for those 2 weeks?? I have 5 in my camp that do.. and 3 got deer with them but they all bowhunt as well.. that is the real question! Are we really.picking up new hunters or keeping the older ones in the game and others switch just because they can?

I've seen 30 plus inthe field just south of me. But that neighbor insisted there were no deer and he had to hunt elsewhere.. lol. Every year is different as food sources and cover can change.. the field next to him was all brush and was a good bedding area for years.. the land was leased and it was cleared and put into winter wheat..the deer move and patterns changed is all. I love hearing I've hunted the same stand for 30 years!! The deer just aren't There! I then ask well what have you done to your woods)..the woods have matured and the brush draw you hunted is now mature forest.. ..

Though the preload on today's bow limbs will make up the difference. Turning a bow down will increase the drawlegnth which is why you heavier limb bow actually shot faster as the cam rolled over more. Again the cam roll and drawlegnth change will effect efficiency. Now is it enough to make a difference to the individual..that is the question

I only draw 50 lbs.. i can do a lot more but it is unnecessary todays bows are very fast and effecient. I know way to many friends and relatives that have blown out a shoulder pulling big weights 65lbs and up.. only.to get a few fps more.. and then lose a season or two in surgery and recovery.. not worth it to me You can turn down your bow but you lose the efficiency. If you do and like it your better off switching to lighter limbs and keeping the lbs near the max..it's better for efficiency and the bow as well as quietier.

Some one better than me should male a pole to see how many bowhunters also own a Crossbow. , And then one who supports full inclusion. Personally everyone I know that owns a crossbow also owns a bow. I can't think of any one I know that just owns a crossbow. So I assume that much of the increase in crossbow and corresponding decrease in bow harvest is the guys shifting to crossbow for the two weeks.

For those of you in wny..the weather is crappy but you can get some Pointers!

For those of you in wny..the weather is crappy but you can get some Pointers!

Exactly!! No way I should be 5% and some years we take 10% !! It's crazy.. I wish we had game department and mandatory check stations!!

Here is the real problem with Dec numbers and how they collect them... they go to butchershops and compare tags there with tags reported this gives them the estimated report rate. In my town I would say with fair certainty over 75% of deer taken do not go to butcher shop . And im sure many are not reported though they are tagged. My next door neighbor takes 5 a year and does them.all himself and I know doesn't report them since we went to computer and phone report vs the drop.and mail card. He has no computer and has a phone but pays per call he tried it once and after the 3rd hangup stopped doing to. All together. I see his point has in his late 80s now and it's a hassle. I'm sure there are many more similar stories .

There is a breakdown town by town. That to me is where I know numbers are wrong.. my "camp" takes 5% of total town take? I know they guys at camp report their deer but I find it strange that an 7x11mile town my little 250+ acres yields 5% ..

I think people are more selective, and are afraid to shoot doe because it may screw up my chance at that monster buck..

I know but I'm sick of hearing people.say there are no deer. I can fill.every.tag every year here if I wanted