Dave

What type of hunter satisfaction will the new changes bring? 1. Before AR a. we could shoot bucks with less than 3pts on one side. b. with bow tag could take a buck or doe . c. Could take a doe on DMP during gun season. If you were lucky enough to get a tag. 2. After AR a. Must only shoot buck with at least 3pts on one side b. During bow season can only shoot buck with 3pts or more on one side. c. Bow hunters must apply for DMP to take doe in either bow or gun season. Only if they get a tag? So far I don't see anything to benefit the hunters unless you are a trophy hunter. Why would I want to buy a bow tag anymore? Especially if you know your area isn't an area with large deer population and very few bucks to begin with. Who ever advocated this plan at the DEC didn't have hunter satisfaction in mind. I don't see how this is going to bring in more hunters into the ranks if they have nothing to hunt. Unless they use a camera!!!!!!! This type of plan should have been done on a unit by unit basis not all DMU are the same. Dave

Sounds good to me.Dave

I am sure you have plenty of pictures, there are probably lots of deer in your area. But that's not the case in all deer Mgmt units and the areas that have fewer deer to take will have even fewer once AR is implemented. Plus the fact that you will no longer be able to take a doe during bow season makes your chances even slimmer. Unless you have a doe permit.Dave

Once the AR kicks in there will be a lot more rationing of venison. Enjoy it while you can!!! Dave

More than likely, you just wouldnt have to pay to enter for the DMP. DMPs are just not guaranteed for anybody. Think about it, people keep complaining that deer numbers are too low, and that too many does are being taken in some areas. The problem with the current system is, everyone with a bow/ml tag gets a DMP that is good anywhere, so its hard to restrict the number of does taken in a certain area. This move is not a fiscal one, its a move to gain more control over the doe take in each area. I agree with your point when it comes to ML/Bow and the DEC's intent to control doe harvest in specific areas.It is sound management. What will upset many and perhaps cause them to forego applying/paying for a permit is that they are now in a lottery. One of the benefits of purchasing a ml/bow license is that it is win win license for all who purchase such a license. In recent years I have elected to forego entering the lottery for a doe permit because I like my chances of killing a doe on either my ml or bow tag. For the past several years I have filled my ML tag. Besides, it really irked me that the DEC began charging for the opportunity to enter the lottery for doe permits. Now you can call me cheap( like FAST Eddie), but the present system is a bargain. Why piss us off any further! Its still a win win, you can shoot another buck and you get more time in the field. If you are really going to be pissed off about having to draw a DMP, then I dont know what to tell you. Which way do you want it though? You want to see more healthy deer more consistently across the state, or get the guaranteed doe tag and continue with the lack of sound management? Buck, thanks for clearing thing up makes sense now. Not that I agree but I understand what the DEC has in mind. So even the bow hunters will feel the pain of AR but at least they get first shots before the gun season. Where I hunt this AR policy will really be tough to swallow we have over 300 acres to hunt and last year we only got a wide 5pt in gun season and a doe in bow season. And this is with about 12 hunters who mostly hunt gun. We just don't have that many deer to choose from and now we will have just about none.Dave

You will have a buck tag and the ability to get a DMP, depending on availability. Thats what I take it to say. Let me see if I understand this, with my bow tag I will be able to take a buck but not a doe. Question does the AR apply to bow season like it will apply to gun season? With my bow tag will I have to have a buck with at least 3 pts on one side? Will they issue DMP for bow season or only have them available for gun season? Confused??Dave Im not confused, and I would say more than likely, yes, AR would apply to your buck tag if you are in an AR zone. Yes, you are correct that you will be able to take a buck only with that tag. NYbuck, then this would be the end of being able to shoot a doe with the bow? How would they implement DMP in the future? Would you only be able to use a DMP if you were lucky enough to get one in either bow or gun season? I didn't mean you were confused I was.Dave

You will have a buck tag and the ability to get a DMP, depending on availability. Thats what I take it to say. Let me see if I understand this, with my bow tag I will be able to take a buck but not a doe. Question does the AR apply to bow season like it will apply to gun season? With my bow tag will I have to have a buck with at least 3 pts on one side? Will they issue DMP for bow season or only have them available for gun season? Confused??Dave

Will Bow hunters still have the choice of either or tag Buck or doe? Or will that be taken away from the bow hunter and replaced by more DMP for all to apply for ? Dave

I don't buy this. You probably catch your walleye in public waters, while the majority of hunters still prefer to hunt private land for various reasons, which if you didn't notice is getting harder to come by OR costing hunters more and more to have access to. Whether you own it or lease it, it costs WAY more money than catching your walleye in public waters. There lies the difference. People won't be wasting their time and money on hunting if there is very little that is legal for them to shoot. You must have forgotten the cost of the boat, gas, license... but his point had nothing to do with harder or easier.. it was that no matter what.. you don't really have a choice if the DEC says you don't... and he's right.. most guys will continue hunting.. AR's or not... the ones that don't oh well... nobody has yet mentioned that maybe guys will stop hunting if something isn't done about managing the buck age structure cuz they're sick of seeing only young bucks... or maybe some guys wanna quit cuz there are too many hunters in the woods killing the first thing they see... this "everyone is gonna take their ball and go home" is a bunch of nonsense. Lots of fishing can be done without a boat, and one gets most of the excitement involved in fishing by reeling in that fish even if it doesn't measure up and you have to throw it back. The same cannot be said about hunting. You could have a perfect set up and see scores of deer that don't quite measure up from your stand, but guess what? You don't know for sure whether your bullet or arrow would have connected on that deer unless you actually fire your weapon at it. There are only so many deer the majority of hunters will let walk because the law says they have to let them walk, before they take up other activities where they DON'T need to buy a license, pay property taxes, pay for leases, just to LOOK at animals. You can hike without a license and see scores of animals. You can photograph them on public or private land without a license. Why would hunters continue to buy licenses if they knew there was only a slim chances of even seeing a deer that was actually legal to shoot?? Yeah, some would continue to buy licenses, but don't for a minute think the many weekend warrior hunters out there wouldn't be saying "the hell with it, why am I even wasting my time!". Lots of distractions in every day life to make hunting not the most important priority for most people. All it takes is to make the sport a little less appealing, and people will very easily give it up. I for one have way LESS desire to hunt these days than I did 20 years ago. Why? Mainly because there are way MORE important things in life than hunting. Make it where my chances of getting a doe permit are slim and where I can only shoot a buck that meets AR restrictions and I will then prefer to spend my limited free time in the outdoors hiking with my wife and kids instead of sitting in a stand by myself and waiting around for nothing. I could twiddle my thumbs on my living room sofa just the same and probably be more comfortable doing it! LOL Steve well put, and there are alot of weekend warriors out there especially from Long Island. If you restrict what we can shoot, limit DMP then what are we going to hunt? Nothing, just like NYS pay through the nose and get nothing for it. The deck is stacked against the hunter to sit in all types of weather just to see a deer of two that are not legal to shoot. He pays for gas, tolls, lodging if he doesn't have a place to stay and he has to eat. Not to mention the price of the license. And there are guys on this site that think that it will not reduce the numbers of hunters , then they have their heads in the sand. Not to forget all the things you have mentioned taxes, leases. So what do you get for a NYS hunting license? And this is hunter satisfaction, I think not.Dave

Reading that made me feel sick to my stomach. What is this country coming to? This gov't is giving every thing away and now our National Parks. Maybe they will give the states away too. But I would bet we still pay for everything.Dave

I noticed the corn fields by me are still very low. Some one told me that corn should be knee high by the 4th of July. I think it is half that, why I don't know we did get alot of rain in June.Dave

LOL 3hrs off the island and your upstate you should be a comedian It's not so bad I usually stay up for 3 or 4 days so I don't have drive back in traffic on Sunday nights.Dave

Great read it has gotten out of hand. I couldn't tell a 120 from a 130 class deer, never had one killed where I hunt in the past 20 yrs. And I don't think AR will change that any time soon.Dave

I guess you have not fished for fluke in the Long Island waters recently! Nary a keeper to be caught. Went fluke fishing on Fathers Day caught 3 all throw backs. I read there is a 20-1 ratio for every 20 fish you catch one is a keeper.Dave

I have been hunting for a long time and have yet to take anything larger than 6ptr's. Though I have shot a bear. It just kills me to see a kid sitting in a blind passing up 8 and 10 pt bucks for a more mature animal. So that's why I stopped watching hunting shows. Where I hunt there are no 10 pt bucks running around. About 10 yrs ago one was shot a perfect 10 but it was the size of a small basket very small but 10 pts. We have 6pt bucks 3 times the size of that 10. Dave

Steve I must admit I totally agree, things have changed and not for the better. And AR will make it worse.Dave

I live on the Island and if I had a place to deer hunt I would hunt too. But I don't so I have to drive 3hrs up to my place to hunt, I am not complaining I love it up state.Dave

If you lose every hunter then you have no deer management... that just will not ever happen...there will always be a percentage of hunters that will hunt no matter what... and if resident hunter numbers diminish too far... surrounding non-residents will be encouraged to pick up the slack with reduced license fees and other insentives... yes it is true that hunter satifaction is part of the equation, but hunter selfishness should not be... Reduced license fees in NY for non residents are you out of your mind??? Maybe if they gave the NY hunters reduced fees more people would hunt.Dave

no joke, we could come to a point in this country where cash is king.....and the only way we will be able to survive is with goods and services locally. look at whats going on in Washington with the debt ceiling, possible gov shutdowns, gridlock, the moneys done gone, the Gov is no longer in the position to help this situation, at this point all they can do is side track us with BS. i have a feeling this 9% unemployment is the new norm. Chinas eatin our lunch! ahh at least as hunters we should be able to feed ourselves.... The only time I feel self sufficient is when I am up state on my 20 acres. I have a big meadow that I could plant food if I had to, have all the fire wood I will ever need to heat my house and I can hunt if I need food. And when I am there I don't think about the budget or politics it would only ruin my special place so I deal with it when I go back to Long Island.Dave

First I do hunt more than one day. I hunt bow most of the season and a lot of gun also. And you didn't answer the question which tastes better a young deer or an older one. If you hunt for trophies the meet will not be as good. May look good on the wall but doesn't do much for the palate . I should have said taking 3-5 years of me making the decision on what type of buck to shoot. It's funny how angry you get when we think the gov't will take away our guns, but you have no problem with them taking away our hunting decisions as what to shoot or not shoot. If they restrict any more of our hunting privileges we will have no need for guns because there will be nothing to hunt. Just think how much the hunter success rate will drop.Dave Maybe it's just me Dave... but you seem to get very defensive when I make a general statement and somehow you think I am talking about you... I never said anything about you hunting only opening day... and I have.. what you call... "trophy" hunted for nearly 17 years and have never killed a big buck that didn't taste great... and I never get angry... I get passionate maybe but never angry over a forum post... what you may not understand is that owning a gun is a right.. hunting is a priviledge not a right... it is not your right to shoot whatever you want.. it is a priviledge given to you by the powers to be.. based on how and what they think needs to be done to control animal populations, ensure hunter safety, etc. If they decide that AR's are needed, wanted, or whatever then your priviledges will change... they aren't taking a right away from you.. they are altering the plan to suit the needs of conservation in their eyes... you don't get to make any decisions of what, where, when or how you can shoot anything if the DEC doesn't say you can... by the way you might have missed where i said I am not necessarily for mandated AR's... I am more for pushing voluntary AR... but yes I do like the idea of passing on young bucks (they taste gamey to me) It must be you Joe, I am not getting defensive about anything I get passionate it's just my humble opinion. Just responding to the thread just like you. I think I heard some where, they were trying to make hunting a right . Hope they vote it through. You say if they decide The DEC, this is not passed over night there is a long procees involved but basically being pushed by Sportsman's clubs and Federations to get what they want. Though I am not for AR I do practice it voluntary , the difference is it's my choice not the DEC's .Joe correct me if I am wrong but when you responded you did say that " you just might have to hunt more than just one day to get one" you did say that! Most hunters think the opposite that younger deer taste better, but then as you have told us over and over and over again you are not like most hunters, You are Tonto Joe the Big Buck Slayer.Dave

Culver totally agree with you, I hunt the same way, it's all about the choice.Dave

August 15 , 2011 THANKS EDDIE

Guy's any one know when the hunting licenses go on sale? Dave

Love the WB also, adds to the enjoyment of bow hunting. Never gave me any problems. Dave

It seems to me that the DEC was listening to all the big sportsman's clubs when it came up with the AR. But what about the little guy who is not part of a club? Who represents him in this matter, just another of the have and have not"s. These big Sportsman's Clubs and Sportsman's Federations are like lobbyist in Washington and we all know where this type of corrupt behavior has gotten us. Just to shut the little guy out I guess these clubs that have large tracks of land don't want the small land owers around their property shooting the deer before they can. So why not restrict them, Yea that will solve part of their problem. Dave