whackos at it again......Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting: Newtown, Connecticut

[First-light]

Just great, more reasons for the gov to come take your guns or worse, throw you in jail and more "tax". Just what this country needs is more tax.

I didn't sat take away your guns. That is off the table. Open your eyes and think for a second. You have to give something up for compromise. Adding security and more detailed background checks is someplace to start. Your response was text book. I would in a heartbeat approve security in a budget proposal for school safety. I would also as a gun owner welcome more detailed background checks and a renewal fee to help pay for these things. If you just sit back and throw the 2nd amendment out there all the time it will go nowhere. Compromise.....

[Doc]

Maybe it's just time we put more security in place.

Every school in America should have an armed guard at the 1 main entrance of the school during school hours.

It would be a burden on the school budget but well worth it. This also could go for mass gatherings where something like this could happen. Any gun owner or new applicant has to go through a more detailed background check and nothing is off limits. This also goes for all family members. A renewal process be put in place and a fee charged to help pay for the system. I'm trying to take the "emotion" out of it and come up with some solutions. There can be a comeback for anything written here, I understand that. It just needs to start someplace. I'm a law abiding gun owner, most of us are. I don't want our guns taken away but there must be some give and take. It has to start somewhere..............

Well, certainly in schools, increased security could be improved. Was it here or on the other thread where somebody was talking about schools that had designated conceal and carry outfitted teachers. Maybe it's time to examine that zero tolerance policy that schools have against weapons on school property and actually develop extensive background checks and training programs and appoint designated teachers to become defenders in events of domestic terrorism and other such emergencies. We have various people in schools already that are tasked with various special duties during emergencies. I would add just one more category of safety monitor(s). Also, some rather secure chain link property boundary barriers with access restricted to one entrance that could be manned. I don't see anything wrong with that sort of thing. Anyone coming into school would have to get by that guy. We are mandated to send our children to school. Measures should be taken there to guarantee their safety.

[MountainHunter]

WNY I am not sure which question you are referring to? If it is the illogical thought process you refer to I don't agree. Fact has very little to do with perception. If a gun looks menacing or a clip looks menacing. They are perceived to be menacing. I know that violent video games aren't real, that violent television shows are not real, that horror movies or graphic movies aren't real. That paint ball tournaments aren't real and the list goes on and on and on.

If we want or expect the media to change what are we going to do ? Nothing?

[wooffer]

You have not answered my questions Doc. You have just expressed your feelings and cliche's about our second amendment rights.

Do we need high capacity clips to hunt with?

Do we need high capacity clips to defend ourselves with?

Do we need paramilitary weapons to hunt with or defend ourselves with.

Confine your answers to yes or no and we will go from there. Then we can talk about the cultural and societal implications of these things.

Scot, the 2nd Amendment was designed to guarantee Patriots the means to defend their liberty and in turn their country. It has nothing to do with hunting. Did I miss something in my studies that showed otherwise? Why are you connecting the two. All patriots should own a black rifle, hunter and non-hunters alike.

[WNYBuckHunter]

WNY I am not sure which question you are referring to? If it is the illogical thought process you refer to I don't agree. Fact has very little to do with perception. If a gun looks menacing or a clip looks menacing. They are perceived to be menacing. I know that violent video games aren't real, that violent television shows are not real, that horror movies or graphic movies aren't real. That paint ball tournaments aren't real and the list goes on and on and on.

If we want or expect the media to change what are we going to do ? Nothing?

More along the lines of if you ban one style of gun that has the same effectiveness, lethality and possible capacity, then it only makes sense that you would have to ban the other. Because one has a wood stock, it makes it ok? Isnt that hypocritical?

[wooffer]

Don't forget gun control is not about banning guns, it is about controlling people. Those in control will stll have access to guns. Bloomberg wants all guns banned in NYC, except the ones carried by his bodyguards of course.

Edited December 16, 2012 by wooffer

[Doc]

I didn't sat take away your guns. That is off the table. Open your eyes and think for a second. You have to give something up for compromise. Adding security and more detailed background checks is someplace to start. Your response was text book. I would in a heartbeat approve security in a budget proposal for school safety. I would also as a gun owner welcome more detailed background checks and a renewal fee to help pay for these things. If you just sit back and throw the 2nd amendment out there all the time it will go nowhere. Compromise.....

Strictly as a point of practicality, I am not sure that the background check can be made any more thorough. I'm not all that familiar with the "behind the scenes" activities that go into these things. It is hard to believe that now that they have such things routinely in place that the administrators of those systems have not already expanded the scope as far as they are legally allowed. I have no idea if that is even a problem because I don't know how many legally obtained guns are involved in crime. I know in this latest episode, the guns were not obtained by the perpetrator legally. background checks for family members ... I doubt that is even constitutional.

[MountainHunter]

Thanks Ants, I respect your opinion but I don't agree with your yes answers. I am not sure what kind of battle you are anticipating.

[tony m]

Don't forget gun control is not about banning guns, it is about controlling people. Those in control will stll have access to guns. Bloomberg wants all guns banned in NYC, except the ones carried by his bodyguards of course.

Control is what Americans have/are going under. You are correct.

[MountainHunter]

There in lies one of the challenges with all of this. How many of our societies civil liberties will be given up to effectively address these issues.

[MountainHunter]

The Patriot Act is fine because it's those foreigners that are going to kill us? But leave our own psychopaths alone?

[MountainHunter]

Does the person who asked about what weapons I own still want to know? Or has your interest in demonstrating that I may be a hypocrit fallen by the wayside?

[First-light]

Don't forget gun control is not about banning guns, it is about controlling people. Those in control will stll have access to guns. Bloomberg wants all guns banned in NYC, except the ones carried by his bodyguards of course.

I work in NYC and have never felt more safe than now. He doesn't have a special place in my heart but he has done some real good things for the City.

[First-light]

Strictly as a point of practicality, I am not sure that the background check can be made any more thorough. I'm not all that familiar with the "behind the scenes" activities that go into these things. It is hard to believe that now that they have such things routinely in place that the administrators of those systems have not already expanded the scope as far as they are legally allowed. I have no idea if that is even a problem because I don't know how many legally obtained guns are involved in crime. I know in this latest episode, the guns were not obtained by the perpetrator legally. background checks for family members ... I doubt that is even constitutional.

I think it's worth the fight.

[Doc]

it's just like anything else, some people shouldn't drink, watch porn, own guns, watch violent movies or play violent video games..........it set's something off in them that is potentially dangerous..........then there's million's who can do all the above with no problem's.

Sometimes I wonder if they really don't have some subliminal impacts on all of us. I remember a time when some of the crap that is depicted on those various CSI programs would have had me barfing right there on the couch. Now, yeah, it's disturbing and uncomfortable to watch, but I don't get that same gut reaction that I once would have. So, it is a desensitizing effect over long periods of time. Now it's true that it doesn't make me want to run right out and copy one of those acts, But I do wonder about kids that grow up with daily diets of that kind of gruesome non-stop crap. There are things happening on a regular basis these days that were completely unheard of not that long ago. There has to be some societal explanation for that. Is it the graphic violence portrayed on TV? ..... beats me. But just maybe ......

[MountainHunter]

WNY, you continue to miss the point about perception. If I wear camo to work everyday in a business suit world how would I be perceived? I'm the same person, have the same skills etc. would how I was perceived be different? Would my credibility take a hit?

[waterweasle]

Does the person who asked about what weapons I own still want to know? Or has your interest in demonstrating that I may be a hypocrit fallen by the wayside?

well of course I'm still curious, and of course its to see if you're being a hypocrit

[WNYBuckHunter]

I didn't sat take away your guns. That is off the table. Open your eyes and think for a second. You have to give something up for compromise. Adding security and more detailed background checks is someplace to start. Your response was text book. I would in a heartbeat approve security in a budget proposal for school safety. I would also as a gun owner welcome more detailed background checks and a renewal fee to help pay for these things. If you just sit back and throw the 2nd amendment out there all the time it will go nowhere. Compromise.....

A renewal fee for what? Gun registries are illegal.

[WNYBuckHunter]

WNY, you continue to miss the point about perception. If I wear camo to work everyday in a business suit world how would I be perceived? I'm the same person, have the same skills etc. would how I was perceived be different? Would my credibility take a hit?

Apples and oranges. I get your point, i just feel it is a hypocritical point that is not logical.

[First-light]

A renewal fee for what? Gun registries are illegal.

Yes it is, you stand correct.

[MountainHunter]

Not at all apples and oranges. Cultural influences and perceptions often have nothing to do with logic or are so subtle that you cannot quantify their effect. They are cumulative. The appearance of something has everything to do with how it is perceived. That cannot be disputed.

[shawnhu]

I work in NYC and have never felt more safe than now. He doesn't have a special place in my heart but he has done some real good things for the City.

You must not wok where I live then, because it's the worst I've seen in the last 30 years. I suppose working here and living here must be two totally separate things.

[MountainHunter]

Good to maintain a sense of humor Waterweasle.

These issues and conversations over the years have me thinking much more about this stuff.

Rest assured no paramilitary style weapons are owned by myself.

[irish_redneck]

What exactly is a paramilitary rifle? My Remington 700 Is similar in action to those used in ww2. My m&p15 is of a similar style to those used in Vietnam. Times change technology improves.

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Edited December 16, 2012 by irish_redneck

[irish_redneck]

We are limited to reduced capacity 5 rounds for hunting.

In a case of civil unrest or military dictatorship a standard capacity clip would be useful for protecting my friends and family.

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