whackos at it again......Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting: Newtown, Connecticut

[tughillhunter]

enter them in what?

pope and young

[WNYBuckHunter]

About as much as making a huge generalization and demeaning women! If you are going to moderate hold everyone to the same level of accountability. Any good hunter knows exactly what she was saying.

Now where did I say sits post was appropriate? Didnt I say in the previous post to keep it civil? Dont tell me what I need or need not do.

What she said still has nothing to do with the discussion. Sounds more like pointless arrogance and braggart talk to me, nothing more than a pissing contest, meant to inflame others. Exactly what we dont need.

[MountainHunter]

Now where did I say sits post was appropriate? Didnt I say in the previous post to keep it civil? Dont tell me what I need or need not do.

What she said still has nothing to do with the discussion. Sounds more like pointless arrogance and braggart talk to me, nothing more than a pissing contest, meant to inflame others. Exactly what we dont need.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I knew that my comments would fly over the head or through the ears of many here. I said I completely understood that it is not the weapon but the person behind it. The key aspect of my comments have to do with the cultural considerations and the perception of these weapons. Not the technical reality of whether or not these weapons are that different than our Remington 7400's or Browning BARs.

As is most often the case no one as of yet has answered my questions but have in turn asked me questions that feed your own feelings or Agenda's.

Do we need high capacity clips ton defend ourselves and our families or to hunt?

Do we need paramilitary style weapons to hunt with?

Do these clips and weapons serve any positive purpose in the hunting community or in the home defense community?

Again, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. If there is no difference between hunting rifles and so called paramilitary rifles, then if you ban one, it stands to reason you should ban the other. As others have said, you are making comparisons based on looks, not functionality, lethality or anything that makes a real difference. Its a completely illogical line of thought.

[Doc]

I knew that my comments would fly over the head or through the ears of many here. I said I completely understood that it is not the weapon but the person behind it. The key aspect of my comments have to do with the cultural considerations and the perception of these weapons. Not the technical reality of whether or not these weapons are that different than our Remington 7400's or Browning BARs.

As is most often the case no one as of yet has answered my questions but have in turn asked me questions that feed your own feelings or Agenda's.

Do we need high capacity clips ton defend ourselves and our families or to hunt?

Do we need paramilitary style weapons to hunt with?

Do these clips and weapons serve any positive purpose in the hunting community or in the home defense community?

You claim to understand that you "completely understood that it is not the weapon but the person behind it" and then filled the rest of your post with an attack on a particular style of rifle.

And I thought I covered quite well why you should not be dealing in perceptions but start dealing in the technical realities. Get the emotional arguments out of your head. That's what the entire anti-gun advocates base all their campaign on. You are trying to fiddle around with an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, so at least work with a few realities somewhere.

I think I answered the question about the clips quite thoroughly also. Particularly about whether we need any certain kind of clip. Home defense is whatever the homeowner feels it should be. Whether he needs hi-cap clips or not really depends on what's coming at him, wouldn't you think? Not some arbitrary perception by someone who hopes that limiting the capacity will actually have some effect on crime.

I think I answered that question about your so-called paramilitary weapons too. Again you are letting your perceptions and emotiomnal reactions make your decisions for you. There is no functional difference between your para -whatever rifles and the typical semi-auto rifle found in many homes.

Are you going to ask that last question about all of the semi-auto weapons in many homes across the country? Do they all "serve any positive purpose"? Again, there is no functional difference. You want to ignore the technical realities of the similarities, but as I explained to you at great lengths before you cannot ignore facts in favor of perceptions and emotions.

[MountainHunter]

I will comment as I choose to and I will call it as I see it ! I am humble and don't appreciate or care for boastfulness. I don't disagree with you but I know where she is coming from.

As is often the case here and on other forums we have no idea with whom we are speaking to. Are they good responsible hunters are they solid citizens? We have no idea and yet we engage in sometimes heated conversations with them. That is generally why I take a pass on most conversations of this nature.

I believe that we need to be involved and to be participating in things that help to change the direction of gun violence in this country. We have to be looking at any thing that influences culture and societal perceptions.

[waterweasle]

scot, can I ask.what kind of firearms do you own and keep in your house? are they all single shots? bolt guns? pump? semi-auto's?

[First-light]

Maybe it's just time we put more security in place.

Every school in America should have an armed guard at the 1 main entrance of the school during school hours.

It would be a burden on the school budget but well worth it. This also could go for mass gatherings where something like this could happen. Any gun owner or new applicant has to go through a more detailed background check and nothing is off limits. This also goes for all family members. A renewal process be put in place and a fee charged to help pay for the system. I'm trying to take the "emotion" out of it and come up with some solutions. There can be a comeback for anything written here, I understand that. It just needs to start someplace. I'm a law abiding gun owner, most of us are. I don't want our guns taken away but there must be some give and take. It has to start somewhere..............

Edited December 16, 2012 by First-light

[MountainHunter]

You have not answered my questions Doc. You have just expressed your feelings and cliche's about our second amendment rights.

Do we need high capacity clips to hunt with?

Do we need high capacity clips to defend ourselves with?

Do we need paramilitary weapons to hunt with or defend ourselves with.

Confine your answers to yes or no and we will go from there. Then we can talk about the cultural and societal implications of these things.

[Doc]

I believe that we need to be involved and to be participating in things that help to change the direction of gun violence in this country. We have to be looking at any thing that influences culture and societal perceptions.

Great! I totally agree. And if you had stopped there and not hopped off into the banning campaign, I would have seconded your thought completely. We may be gun owners and hunters, but we also should be involved citizens. And when it comes to gun violence or any kind of violence, we should all be taking an active role. And contary to the beliefs of some, that active role does not necessarily always have to involve attacks or unnecessary tweaking of 2nd amendment rights just because it makes us feel good to do so.

[waterweasle]

You have not answered my questions Doc. You have just expressed your feelings and cliche's about our second amendment rights.

Do we need high capacity clips to hunt with?

Do we need high capacity clips to defend ourselves with?

Do we need paramilitary weapons to hunt with or defend ourselves with.

Confine your answers to yes or no and we will go from there. Then we can talk about the cultural and societal implications of these things.

1- in NY we can only hunt with a 5rd magazine

2 - who can tell what capacity magazine I'll need to protect myself with.

3 - do I need it to hunt with?? no but I WANT it to hunt with, it performs its duty as intended.................same for defense

its nice to know that YOU apparently know what I NEED, and dont NEED................

[ants]

Just for the record I killed my 8th NY buck this year that would qualify for the P&Y record book{if i entered them} I forgot , how many did you have ?

I would enter them....just saying

[shawnhu]

Maybe it's just time we put more security in place.

Every school in America should have an armed guard at the 1 main entrance of the school during school hours.

It would be a burden on the school budget but well worth it. This also could go for mass gatherings where something like this could happen. Any gun owner or new applicant has to go through a more detailed background check and nothing is off limits. This also goes for all family members. A renewal process be put in place and a fee charged to help pay for the system. I'm trying to take the "emotion" out of it and come up with some solutions. There can be a comeback for anything written here, I understand that. It just needs to start someplace. I'm a law abiding gun owner, most of us are. I don't want our guns taken away but there must be some give and take. It has to start somewhere..............

Just great, more reasons for the gov to come take your guns or worse, throw you in jail and more "tax". Just what this country needs is more tax.

[jjb4900]

just heard something that made alot of sense to me........"we glamorize, promote and openly sell movies and video games that openly promote death, violence and gore.....this stuff should be kept out of the mainstream and the people who promote them should be treated like pornographer's".......something to think about.

[Doc]

You have not answered my questions Doc. You have just expressed your feelings and cliche's about our second amendment rights.

Do we need high capacity clips to hunt with?

Do we need high capacity clips to defend ourselves with?

Do we need paramilitary weapons to hunt with or defend ourselves with.

Confine your answers to yes or no and we will go from there. Then we can talk about the cultural and societal implications of these things.

I have given the best answers that I can to someone who apparently is not interested in hearing any answers. I sincerely doubt that you are really reading my replies. That's understandable .... I've been accused of writing little mini-novels in an attempt to be clear .... lol. But seriously, it's obvious that your questions must have been rhetorical because you really don't seem to be willing to open your mind to any answers. I can't converse with someone who has that kind of closed mind. There's no point.

[MountainHunter]

My comments havie nothing to do with feeling good they have to do with contributing to changing a particular culture.

There is a massive desensitazation in our country relating to violence. Even things like this conversation are examples of what we are dealing with. We are aggressive, direct and often times insulting with people we don't even know.

We need to have an open mind and think outside the box.

We should be taking initiative, talking to police departments, to town governments and saying we are responsible citizens what efforts or programs can we involve ourselves in that would help our communities.

I would expect the general public is growing weary of it's not us! It's not us!

[WNYBuckHunter]

So scot, are you going to respond to the question i asked you?

[ants]

Do we need high capacity magazines to hunt with- no

Do we need high capacity magazines to defend ourselves with-yes

Do we need paramilitary weapons to hunt with-no...or defend ourselves with- yes

[Doc]

just heard something that made alot of sense to me........"we glamorize, promote and openly sell movies and video games that openly promote death, violence and gore.....this stuff should be kept out of the mainstream and the people who promote them should be treated like pornographer's".......something to think about.

You are right on, and don't think that that stuff is not taking it's toll on our society. Also, those CSI programs that get as graphic as possible when showing some of the crimes of the mentally ill I can just see some of these wackos drooling and taking notes.

But here's the problem. First amendment speech protections do not allow any governmental corrections to that problem (and probably rightfully so). So the solution lies in the hands of the viewers. We have to each decide that those are not appropriate programs and deal with it with our channel selectors. I have already started.

The answers to the violent games lies in the hands of the parents. They certainly have the right to demand that certain items not be brought into the house. It's time for parents to grow a set and start enforcing rules to their own homes. You find those games in the house, you destroy those games...... simple.

[MountainHunter]

Doc,

Give me some yes or No's! I read your responses. I am willing to pursue this issue differently are you? If doesn't seem as if you can let go of the same old, same old. Instead of creating paragraphs of evasiveness lets start with simple yes or no answers to my few simple questions.

We all know the answers are no. If that can't be acknowledged you are not being honest or open. There is no where to go from there.

[ants]

Doc,

Give me some yes or No's! I read your responses. I am willing to pursue this issue differently are you? If doesn't seem as if you can let go of the same old, same old. Instead of creating paragraphs of evasiveness lets start with simple yes or no answers to my few simple questions.

We all know the answers are no. If that can't be acknowledged you are not being honest or open. There is no where to go from there.

When you say "we all know the answers are no" Who do you mean by "we all" ?

[MountainHunter]

These are all contributing factors to a culture. I made reference to that in my initial post. Seemingly the inability to make distinctions between what is reality and what is not is contributing to this overall desensitization among a certain segment of our society.

[MountainHunter]

Ants I have asked the same few questions a number of times now. Please go back to previous posts of mine. I'm on an iPhone and I have big thumbs.

[jjb4900]

You are right on, and don't think that that stuff is not taking it's toll on our society. Also, those CSI programs that get as graphic as possible when showing some of the crimes of the mentally ill I can just see some of these wackos drooling and taking notes.

But here's the problem. First amendment speech protections do not allow any governmental corrections to that problem (and probably rightfully so). So the solution lies in the hands of the viewers. We have to each decide that those are not appropriate programs and deal with it with our channel selectors. I have already started.

The answers to the violent games lies in the hands of the parents. They certainly have the right to demand that certain items not be brought into the house. It's time for parents to grow a set and start enforcing rules to their own homes. You find those games in the house, you destroy those games...... simple.

it's just like anything else, some people shouldn't drink, watch porn, own guns, watch violent movies or play violent video games..........it set's something off in them that is potentially dangerous..........then there's million's who can do all the above with no problem's.

[ants]

Ants I have asked the same few questions a number of times now. Please go back to previous posts of mine. I'm on an iPhone and I have big thumbs.

Yeah I know I responded to those questions a few posts back