Public Comment Open!

[mike rossi]

Mute Swans are one of the worst introduced species in this country. Public comment on a NY management plan for mute swans is open right now... http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7076.html

Mute swans are much larger than greater canada geese and extremely aggressive. They not only drown native ducks and geese, they also hog up and defend huge breeding territories (ie. an entire pond or small marsh) displacing breeding pairs of native waterfowl.  Although wintering and fall staging birds congregate in large flocks, during the breeding season each waterfowl pair needs its own section of real estate – to make a long story short: waterfowl need MORE habitat to reproduce during the warm months then they do during the rest of the year… NY is one of the few states that prevent hunters from shooting them, unless they obtain a nuisance permit, otherwise the DEC shoots them. The reason behind this is, the HSUS filed a number of lawsuits claiming that this introduced species should be protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1916 - despite the fact they are not a native species and they don't even migrate. The state of Pennsylvania lost its first court battle with the Humane Society regarding mute swans, but after a lengthy appeal, won and now classifies mute swans as an unprotected species. These birds are quite aggressive, and like Canada geese sometimes attack people; 2 years ago one actually drowned a healthy 40 year old man while he was kayaking. If you search YouTube there are numerous videos showing how aggressive these birds are. There are dozens of videos showing mute swans drowning native waterfowl; chasing native waterfowl -even adult honkers, right off the nest.  

In NY a wildlife species is classed into three management categories:

1. As a game species such as pheasant. A game species is “protected” but the DEC may set regulated hunting seasons for them.
2. Unprotected species such as wood chucks, red squirrels, porcupines; and the following birds; rock doves, monk parakeets, starling, and English sparrow.
3. Fully Protected species. This classification would include species with conservation status’ ranging from least concern to endangered.  In NY, the mourning dove and the mute swan are in this designation, along with the bald eagle, wood rat, and spruce grouse….

Although the management of mute swans is an extremely important issue on its own face; it would not be responsible to fail to consider the similarities between the efforts of the HSUS to protect mute swans and protect mourning doves. Not only are the unscientific premises, legal maneuvers and socio-political tactics similar; but the extremely high level of success in passing their agendas is also similar.  We will address these similarities in a future report; we recommend that you follow us on face book for the most direct pipe to these reports.

In regards to stake holder input: Be advised as in mourning dove management the DEC, FWS, and politicians will receive a ton of comment from anti-hunters and very little input from hunters. It is vital that we make a concerted effort to participate in this comment opportunity. We suggest that you use the content of this report to research the issue and along with citing specific you tube videos when constructing your letter. We don’t like form letters and also do not want to be condescending, but if anyone needs help writing a letter or wants us to craft a form letter, let us know.  Whatever you do, act right now, do not wait and tell others in your network about this.

Edited January 19, 2014 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

Here are some videos to educate yourself about the impact of these birds to help you write your public comment. Take a little time and check these out,  I think the total time to watch ALL of these is like 18 minutes...

 

Mute Swan Video Play List

http://youtu.be/8zdd7JkmHt4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTgskf3QLCI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaJa6pVOr5I&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sI0F-Szmtc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALI5sO5aSPU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o83L4yaO3Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOYarW-aokk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Railiy7JAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F20SKPMppQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv3DReGpPAw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMADOUZRZQA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BllnWV-BIDo

[Lawdwaz]

I've had plenty of bad experiences with mute swans over they years.  I hate the damn things.

 

My buddy has had breeding pairs for years.  Not many of the young ones survive,  either a coyote or another older swan will kill them.  They are just awful.........

 

Each year I have to help round them up after the ponds freeze and herd them into the barn for the winter.

 

Probably 10 years ago I was walking down through a pasture carrying my chain saw.  I was 50-75 yards from the pond that a pair had a nest on.  All of a sudden here comes the cob.  He came fast and hard......I started yelling at him but it didn't faze him a bit.............he was within 6' and coming..... I started up the chain saw and revved it up and leveled it at him.  THAT finally did it, he turned and went back to his bitch on the nest.

 

One time he whacked my buddy (who owns the joint) on the shin with a wing butt.  He should have gone to the hospital as the leg could have been broken and the hematoma was unreal scary.

 

If they need volunteers to pound those congregating mutes, I'll bring the SBE, ammo and coffee.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Lawdwaz

[mike rossi]

Lawdwaz,

 

I would say at this stage the volunteering that is needed is to do as you have just done by sharing your experiences with mute swans, but primarily to participate in the public comment period which is open right now. The other important thing to do is to tell others in your networks about mute swans and ask them to immediately get engaged in the public comment opportunity before the deadline is reached.

 

The state has in fact been banding mute swans. Everyone understands the dilemma between banding a pest and releasing it to study it for the big picture and not just killing it when you got the proverbial bird in hand. But my point is regarding volunteering - the DEC or FWS might not want to use volunteers with such a large, aggressive and dangerous species. However if they did or do in the future, the people that step up to the plate are very likely to be non hunters , some of them anti hunters. Such has been the case with mourning dove banding and non game in general.

 

The DEC already issues nuisance take permits and DEC staff shoot mute swans. I reported the location of some mute swans to the DEC and I was told that they make an effort to shoot them when the public is not likely to see them do it - in another words they hide it...

 

This new  management plan proposal should allow hunters or anyone to take them year -round. It should allocate money from the conservation fund for eradication efforts, not just shooting on sight, but also nest / egg destruction, and whatever form of lethal control is available. This may require hiring additional staff or the hired killers working for the US Dept. of Agriculture's division of Wildlife Services. We all need to include those suggestions in our public comment.

[Lawdwaz]

Interesting......I'm sure they know of the group of them in Waterport, NY on Lake Alice.  They've been there for a number of years and have to be harassing the geese, mallards and shore birds. 

 

In November I pass through Lakeville, NY on Rt 20A quite a bit.  Seems to be some big flocks of swans there.  I never stopped to look if they were trumpeter or mute but I suspect they are mute?  They are all mixed together with all the other waterfowl in great numbers.  Since no breeding is going on they all must get along there and then?

 

I'll tell you, I would not trust a mute swan around any small child on land.    

[mike rossi]

I think I get your point and agree it is "interesting". What they adopt in this management plan and how the public comment influences the final product is going to answer some questions. I suspect there has been and still is significant political pressure to protect mute swans. In NY wildlife not partially protected as game or unprotected - is fully protected. I believe that is the current designation of mute swans, despite being an introduced species, a deleterious one at that...

 

By the way, when structuring your public comment, read the draft first and keep it fairly relevant to it. The first instinct of the sporting community is going to be to suggest a hunting season. I don't think suggesting a hunting season is viable and I will tell you why I think that. First of all you do not manage a pest species you want to extirpate the same way you manage a game species you want to sustain. Classifying mute swans as game and regulating them by hunting would be hog wash. Plus, as is the case with mourning doves, the DEC does not have the authority to designate them as game and cannot set a season until they are so designated. At this point after all the discussions about mourning doves, I don't think we have to delve into how difficult that would be and that it would require a bill to be introduced, pass both houses, and approved by the governor.... I am not sure if the DEC can designate a species as unprotected however.. I suspect they can, especially when it involves introduced species, otherwise  everything from swine and rock doves would have needed legislative approval... Designating unprotected status to mute swans would be more appropriate and make sense. That would allow taking them year-round, unless the DEC deems that as is the case with swine, that it would interfere with eradication efforts because it will scatter and educate them... Have a voice in mute swan management  and get your comment in dude, don't wait for the other guy, the antis are flooding the DEC with comment, as they do with mourning dove management issues...

Edited January 20, 2014 by mike rossi

[Terry]

How do they taste?

[mike rossi]

I need to correct myself. According to the draft, on page 4 and in paragraph 4, it states that this bird already is classified as a migratory game bird AND the DEC does in fact have the authority to set a hunting season. It also states in that paragraph that hunting could be useful in reaching population goals. I would really like to know when and how the game classification was made, to apply it to mourning doves. 

 

The DEC along with the Atlantic Flyway Council set a population goal of 500 birds by 2013. As other states in the flyway reached their goal, NY did not and instead our population grew in size and distribution. NY currently has more mute swans than any other state in the Atlantic Flyway around 2200 - way off the goal of 500. The final goal is to eliminate them from the state by 2025.

 

Trout Fisher asks how they taste: In NY they taste a lot like eagle, gull, and loon - they taste illegal... In other states I imagine they are quite good...

Edited January 21, 2014 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

How do they taste?

Did you read the DEC draft? It says they are palatable...

[mike rossi]

Anybody write up their public comment yet? My wife and I are still reviewing the literature and working on ours. I just checked the DEC's facebook page and there are already a number of posts opposing the draft plan. The draft plan is only 11 pages and is written in plain language  - check it out and get your comments in before the deadline!

 

Although I stress the importance on this issue on its own face, I think the participation or lack of is a pretty good indicator of how effectively and how large our influence will be on a future dove bill or a mourning dove management plan.

 

So far on face book we ticked one guy off who quit our page and  a few others showed support  but said little other than variations of  "Kill them"! Public comment like that is a liability, not an asset. There is enough time to do some light research, ask questions - including discussions right here, and use that info to write good public comment. On the same note, there also is plenty of time to get others in your network engaged and involved.

 

I am going to be honest, if we see complacency and lack of interest and earnest effort regarding the draft mute swan plan we are seriously going to reevaluate continuing to pursue a dove season. Establishing a dove season and supporting the passage of a DEC management plan for mute swans can be compared to the old coon hunters' saying: If a dog cant whip a woodchuck, he sure as heck wont whip a coon"...

[ants]

How do you tell if they are trumpeter or mute? I have swans by my house so I was just wondering. Never realized that swans could be so nasty.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Mutes have an orange bill with the black bump. Trumpeters have a black bill. Body size is similar but the postures are different.

 

And the Trumpeter Swans have  a bit of a more gamey taste.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[mike rossi]

The "field marks" of the mute are an "S" shaped neck; orange bill with only part of it black, black part looks like a bump or knobs. The 2 species of native swans have straight necks and  black bills except the juveniles have pinkish bills.

 

Besides the "field marks" you identify birds by behavior , habitat, and their voice. You can listen to bird voices on the Cornell Ornithology Labs website.

 

If the ones near your house seem to be mutes, let the regional DEC office know about it. If you read the draft plan, you will see that the DEC has been actively shooting them for some time now, so if you make a report it shouldn't be as if you are speaking a foreign language or something... I would talk to wildlife, not law enforcement.

Edited January 21, 2014 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

CORRECTION: Although the DEC has been shooting mute swans since 1993 under the current management plan, they are only authorized to do so on Division of Fish, Wildlife, and Marine Resources Lands. Obviously this is as good as next to nothing and the results show it. Under the old plan the population goal was 500 birds by 2013. The population not only is way higher at 2,200 but it actually increased since 1993! NY now has the largest population of free ranging mute swans in the Atlantic Flyway and is the only state in the AF which has not reduced its population. The proposed new management plan is much better you will see if you read the draft. I am sure most of you will support it. Let the DEC know what you think before  the currently open comment period closes in February! The antis are already opposing much of the plan and if they succeed in altering key strategies the management of these pests will continue to be hindered as is the case with the 1993 plan.

 

All of the above probably explains Lawdwaz's thought that the DEC must be aware of a particular group of birds, yet did not act. Also, I  misinformed Ants by telling him to report birds near his home and that the DEC would remove them -  although DEC wildlife staff may appreciate people reporting birds they are unaware of, they apparently are not authorized to shoot them outside of DFWMR Lands under the 1993 plan. 

[mike rossi]

The DECs 1992 Mute Swan Plan was a dismal failure thanks to the lobbying of the Humane Society and the organization one article mentions called goose watch. The population goal was 500 by 2013, however the current population estimate is 2200, which is actually an increase from 1993. Population modeling based on reproduction and survival data, estimates the population is growing about 13% a year and without human intervention mute swans will be eventually be common in all parts of NY state. The population goal for 2025 is zero mute swans in NY state and if the same organizations which have blocked dove hunting seasons for three decades succeed again as they did in 1993 the DEC will not be able to adopt an effective management plan this time around either. I posted information about this in the waterfowl forum, read up, gather some back ground info, and get your public comment in by the February deadline. Don't use a typical "sportsman's rant" - keep it relevant and don't delve into tax, etc... Until we learn to address controversial issues properly, whether it be mute swans, mourning doves, or waterfowl hunting on Long Island or Onagada Lake, we will continue to facilitate the people opposed. The deadline for public comment is February and the antis have already flooded the DEC with theirs.