A Little Closer Look at the Bear Program Proposal

[Doc]

Reading down through the DEC bear management proposal, http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/bbplandraft2014.pdf I have come across some items that may be a bit more controversial than simple season changes. How do you all feel about allowing the use of hounds and the use of bait and the use of traps? Anybody have any opinions on these three harvesting practices?

 

Just to be clear, understand that the DEC is not promoting either of these three methods of bear hunting at this time, but is looking very closely at them and evaluating their implementation.

 

 

[Deerthug]

Oh jeez! When I saw the headline I thought I was going to find a story about beer! Time to get a stronger eyeglass prescription.... Lol!

[Meat Manager]

I read I and have no problems on first read...the way i understand it, they will consider over the next 5 years using dogs and bait as a possible method in areas where populations are high and human contact is common.

The only "bear trap" I noticed was in relation to moving a live bear:

"Strategy 5.1.2: Maintain clear policy and protocols to direct staff in the conduct of duties, particularly in regard to human health and safety and any actions that may generate high public interest or controversy (e.g., lethal removal of Class 1 bears, trap and relocation of nuisance bears, and cub rehabilitation standards)."

Bear open in 7j sounds good to me...I've seen scatt and the old timers call the hill I hunt on Bear Hill.

I may have missed it doc, but I don't see anything untoward.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited February 12, 2014 by Meat Manager

[d-bone20917]

"Additionally, close regulation of alternative harvest techniques such as use of bait, pursuit with hounds, trapping or spring hunts could provide additional management tools and would likely generate substantial interest in New York bear hunting among resident and non-resident hunters."

 

Of all the possibilities listed I think the spring hunt would generate the most interest.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The hound hunting doesn't do anything for me. I can see a benefit in some area for the spring hunt and the use of bait.

[mike rossi]

Reading down through the DEC bear management proposal, http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/bbplandraft2014.pdf I have come across some items that may be a bit more controversial than simple season changes. How do you all feel about allowing the use of hounds and the use of bait and the use of traps? Anybody have any opinions on these three harvesting practices?

 

Just to be clear, understand that the DEC is not promoting either of these three methods of bear hunting at this time, but is looking very closely at them and evaluating their implementation.

 

Doc,

 

Please allow me to get off topic and make a qualifying statement about this. What I say in this post is a different topic than Doc's query about the acceptability of the entertained hunting methods -  so if anyone wants to explore it further, please start another topic, or else Doc will hate me even further for diverting his post....

 

What you said above that I bolded should be explained. This is another "draft" open for public comment. That public comment will guide the strategies within which actually do get adopted. I am not too keen on this particular issue, nor do I endorse all of it,  however speaking generally about stakeholder input on draft plans , we need to not listen to those uninformed or rabble rousers who discourage participation. I also posted recently about the HSUS encouraging its NY member constituency to participate in this comment opportunity. The HSUS is the nation's largest anti-hunting organization.

 

As with the set back proposal we discussed at length, some the hunting aspects of the bear plan can be traced back to a member organization of the NYS Conservation Council. The NYS Houndsman submitted a resolution to the NYSCC which was approved by vote. The Houndsman along with others, perhaps the council itself, have also been discussing these desires with both the DEC and state lawmakers for some time (years). If some magazine or newspaper publishes an article in the future which seems to imply that a certain politician is behind new legislation, recall this perspective and understand it is an endorsement of a DEC strategy which was originally proposed by so-called organized sportsman...

 

Thank you...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 which was originally proposed by so-called organized sportsman...

 

Thank you...

Mike,

 

can you clarify that?

[Meat Manager]

"Additionally, close regulation of alternative harvest techniques such as use of bait, pursuit with hounds, trapping or spring hunts could provide additional management tools and would likely generate substantial interest in New York bear hunting among resident and non-resident hunters."

Of all the possibilities listed I think the spring hunt would generate the most interest.

Thanks missed that...will they be baiting only bear...can I put my bear bait out and shoot a deer over it, probably not.

None Of this concerns me that much...we don't have a ton of bears here in 7j, if we did maybe I'd want to use baits and traps to keep em out of my garbage.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doewhacker]

If the population is large enough to handle these methods I am all for them.

 

Liberal NY will cry over these methods unfortunately, the anti's have attacked these same methods in other states and continue to do so. IE Maine, NJ.

[G-Man]

i'd like to see a spring bear season. bait in high population areas. and allegany st park open for bear.

[Doc]

I read I and have no problems on first read...the way i understand it, they will consider over the next 5 years using dogs and bait as a possible method in areas where populations are high and human contact is common. The only "bear trap" I noticed was in relation to moving a live bear: "Strategy 5.1.2: Maintain clear policy and protocols to direct staff in the conduct of duties, particularly in regard to human health and safety and any actions that may generate high public interest or controversy (e.g., lethal removal of Class 1 bears, trap and relocation of nuisance bears, and cub rehabilitation standards)." Bear open in 7j sounds good to me...I've seen scatt and the old timers call the hill I hunt on Bear Hill. I may have missed it doc, but I don't see anything untoward. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think the trapping that they were evaluating was referring to normal and current trap and transfer activities.

 

The items that I spotted that may generate some controversy would be:

 

Baiting: I know that there are many that there are many that don't like any kind of baiting. That's an issue that I would have to do more thought on. I am generally not one that is in favor of training (conditioning) wild animals through bait to simply make my harvest easier. I have always said that I prefer to hunt animals as I find them rather than conditioning them for my hunting convenience. That's just a personal condition that I put on my own hunting. However, being an old trapper, I can see the inconsistency in thinking there.

 

Hounds: That is a method that some may have problems with. I guess I have no particular problems with hound hunting right up to the point where the bear is treed. Shooting a bear that the dogs have hunted for me does seem to end in what looks contrary to fair chase principles. Shooting a bear that is in a tree with absolutely no place to go does kind of strike me in a negative sort of way.

 

Trapping: Yes, I have been a trapper in years past, but really, are their any states that still allow trapping of bears? I'm not even sure that's still a viable method of taking bears.

 

Anyway, I thought this all might make for some interesting discussion.

[Doewhacker]

Yes Doc Maine allows trapping, baiting and hounds. Its not however a free for all, baiting is only allowed for one month before and the month of the season.

 

These methods are the best ways to control a Bear population and really that should be the main objective not wether the given method is popular. On the flip side as I previously stated, that is not how NY opperates.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yes Doc Maine allows trapping, baiting and hounds. Its not however a free for all, baiting is only allowed for one month before and the month of the season.

 

These methods are the best ways to control a Bear population and really that should be the main objective not wether the given method is popular. On the flip side as I previously stated, that is not how NY opperates.

Would you feel the same way if we were talking about the Whitetail Deer?

[Doewhacker]

Would you feel the same way if we were talking about the Whitetail Deer?

 

No because Deer are a completely different animal to hunt.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

No because Deer are a completely different animal to hunt.

So you would have no problem with Baiting, Trapping and running deer with hounds in Ny?

 

Some will argue that any of the above is not true hunting!  Just shooting animals!

Edited February 12, 2014 by Four Season Whitetails

[mike rossi]

Mike,

 

can you clarify that?

Not here, its out of the scope,  I will send you a PM.

[Doewhacker]

So you would have no problem with Baiting, Trapping and running deer with hounds in Ny?

 

Some will argue that any of the above is not true hunting!  Just shooting animals!

 

No I would have no problem hunting Bear in this fashion. Killing a deer and control their population is far easier, other wise wouldn't see an annual take number so high.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

No I would have no problem hunting Bear in this fashion. Killing a deer and control their population is far easier, other wise wouldn't see an annual take number so high.

Really its just a question!  Its obvious that not just you but many think its ok to treat some animals different than others.  If somene has no problem baiting a bear and shooting him with a crispy creme in his mouth they should have no problem dropping that 10pt with an apple sucker in his chops. Same as running a bear up a tree with a dog and taking him out or have that dog run that 10pt around in circles for you to catch up and pop him!

 Numbers of animals really has no matter with their taking!  

[Doewhacker]

Really its just a question!  Its obvious that not just you but many think its ok to treat some animals different than others.  If somene has no problem baiting a bear and shooting him with a crispy creme in his mouth they should have no problem dropping that 10pt with an apple sucker in his chops. Same as running a bear up a tree with a dog and taking him out or have that dog run that 10pt around in circles for you to catch up and pop him!

 Numbers of animals really has no matter with their taking!  

 

Deer and Bear are very different animals, its not even remotely the same and the management goals are very different aswell. Perhaps you should read the Bear plan the DEC put out.

 

Think what you want though. I answered your question twice, do I need to repeat it for you?

[Meat Manager]

I think we do treat each species differently in terms of regs and protections, and rightly so in my opinion. And population numbers and control are always first on the DECs list of goals.

If they need to take more bears they will one way or another. Limits to these touchy methods should be applied but I'd rather see hunters have the harvest than sharpshooters.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited February 12, 2014 by Meat Manager

[mike rossi]

NY does have a chase season for bears by the way. You can pursue bears with hounds during a designated season during the summer, but you are not allowed to kill them. Its in the regs, look it up. Its been in effect for many years actually.

Edited February 12, 2014 by mike rossi

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Deer and Bear are very different animals, its not even remotely the same and the management goals are very different aswell. Perhaps you should read the Bear plan the DEC put out.

 

Think what you want though. I answered your question twice, do I need to repeat it for you?

No I can see the color grey very well.   Cant wait till those sharpshooters start picking off those freaking wood rats,in the middle of the night, over a corn pile, with a spotlight. You know the ones that keep eating all the rich peoples flowers and shrubs and cause all those car wrecks!  Its all about management there!

[mike rossi]

No I can see the color grey very well.   Cant wait till those sharpshooters start picking off those freaking wood rats,in the middle of the night, over a corn pile, with a spotlight. You know the ones that keep eating all the rich peoples flowers and shrubs and cause all those car wrecks!  Its all about management there!

 

Dude,

 

The eastern wood rat  also called the Allegany wood rat, are an endangered species... Seriously..

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Dude,

 

The eastern wood rat  also called the Allegany wood rat, are an endangered species... Seriously..

Really!! Man we are lucky to have your knowledge around here...Thank's Dude!  Any other rats of the woods you would like to share with us? Black,Grey,Tree  Help us here!

[Doewhacker]

Really!! Man we are lucky to have your knowledge around here...Thank's Dude!  Any other rats of the woods you would like to share with us? Black,Grey,Tree  Help us here!

 

You over use the !

 

Any way lets stay on topic of Bear management tools.