How does this picture make you feel?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Ill try to explain why many hunters have a problem with penned deer "hunts", and you can take it however you want to. Whitetail deer are a native species, and in the wild they do not typically grow massive sized racks like you find in a penned environment. The genetic manipulation of the species is a huge, huge turn off to many people, and not just hunters. Alot of these deer growing 200" racks as 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 year old animals almost start to lose many of the characteristics of their wild relatives. Also, you can go out to public land, or nearby land and hunt them in most places in the US. Many people have an issue with calling it hunting when you are killing hand raised farm animals, with little to no fear of humans. Now exotic, non native species that are killed in a penned environment are not as big of a deal to many, because realistically, that might be the only place someone ever has a chance to see those animals in real life, let alone have the opportunity to harvest one. Im not saying its not a contradiction, Im just trying to explain the difference that I have noticed from many people on the subject.

 

Sorry for going off topic, back to the stack of yotes....

I have no problem with that thinking but there are thousands that think just a little different than you and the rest and are not real thrilled with the taking of a 90lbs spike that offers no hunt at all. The dumbest animal in the woods and i  can show you animals behind that would offer 3 times the hunt. Easy!!

After your theory and thoughts you still came back to the point that any other animal except bambi can be killed within any pen any size with no issues.  Always has been with..Hunters..but let the anti speak and neither will be ok. Hence you have no strength in the hunting ranks because some dont agree with what others do.  That is why the anti's get more power every year!

Edited April 19, 2014 by Four Season Whitetails

[dbHunterNY]

I don't get it where those coyotes in a fence??  what are we talking about?

[Doc]

I don't get it where those coyotes in a fence??  what are we talking about?

Ha-ha .... these threads drift and evolve all over the place, especially after the page count reaches 3 or 4. It usually turns out ok, because after that many pages, the original topic has pretty much burned out anyway, and the thread has morphed into several other topics that are also interesting.

 

It probably is true that it would be more productive to start new threads when the originals start wandering to the extent that this one has. But anyway, it is kind of comical just how far away these threads can travel .... lol.

[mike rossi]

Well actually, I have found that "big-bad-wolf syndrome" to be part of the most effective pro-hunting argument that can be used. When anti-hunters begin their savage barbarianism comments about hunters, the most effective way to put it all in perspective for them is to point out that hardly any of the critters die peacefully and quietly in their bed from old age. It is true that in almost all cases, the death from a hunter's bullet is a whole lot more humane that Mother Nature's alternatives. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out. Yes, it is a departure from the cold hard facts and stats of population control that we usually rely on, and yes it is playing the emotionalism card. But while others are throwing people into a coma with their facts and figures and statistics, within a few words, I have shut some of these guys up and sent them away with a new emotional viewpoint to chew on.

 

Emotionalism is very powerful tool that has been used against us for decades. Sometimes it is good to throw some of it back at them....lol.

 

I know that is way off topic, and not really the point you were aiming at, but your reply did seem to be a great intro to a successful style of fighting antis that I have been using for a whole lot of years and figured might be of use to others.

Doc,

 

Anti hunters have become much more sophisticated than in the past, they lie less and call the facts more often nowdays. They can no longer be characterized as 'emotional'. Any lie or myth, promulgated by either side can work for some time, but eventually the truth catches up. Besides, as you acknowledge, it is also emotionalism when hunters depict how predators tear up fawns  or pull them from the uterus while being born, etc... Its just what I call the hero syndrome... We must accept the facts and develop our arguments around them. When the facts do not support our arguments we must concede or look like clowns... Besides, it would be pretty selfish to allow hunting policy to exist in conflict with what is sound management. Yes, there are many hunters who are selfish, many of them head the federations et al, but we need them like a hole in the head.

 

The point that so many are missing is that the way deer have been managed for 100 years is being challenged... There is mounting evidence that harvesting bucks and too many predators is not the way to continue. With the passion you have about the crossbow issue I think this should be very apparent by now.

 

It seems like Belo's intent here was to discuss how to photograph harvested animals, he should have been more explicit with his title, avoiding the wide course this thread took. Perhaps this is another subject for elsewhere....

[Doc]

Doc,

 

Anti hunters have become much more sophisticated than in the past, they lie less and call the facts more often nowdays. They can no longer be characterized as 'emotional'. Any lie or myth, promulgated by either side can work for some time, but eventually the truth catches up. Besides, as you acknowledge, it is also emotionalism when hunters depict how predators tear up fawns  or pull them from the uterus while being born, etc... Its just what I call the hero syndrome... We must accept the facts and develop our arguments around them. When the facts do not support our arguments we must concede or look like clowns... Besides, it would be pretty selfish to allow hunting policy to exist in conflict with what is sound management. Yes, there are many hunters who are selfish, many of them head the federations et al, but we need them like a hole in the head.

 

The point that so many are missing is that the way deer have been managed for 100 years is being challenged... There is mounting evidence that harvesting bucks and too many predators is not the way to continue. With the passion you have about the crossbow issue I think this should be very apparent by now.

 

It seems like Belo's intent here was to discuss how to photograph harvested animals, he should have been more explicit with his title, avoiding the wide course this thread took. Perhaps this is another subject for elsewhere....

Nope, the rank and file, average anti-hunter that I have run into still relies on emotion for their opinion. The little old neighbor lady and the average city dweller have never really taken the time to become sophisticated or learn any real facts about what they are talking. They still come out with that, "How can you kill such a pretty innocent animal?" crap and you know it. And so I have no problem giving it back to them since that is the only thing that they understand. And by the way, none of that has to violate the truth. Mother nature is a cruel game manager. I still say that while you are boring them into a coma with facts and figures, I can have them at least understanding some of the real facts of life according to Mother Nature. They listen to that kind of crap. Treating them to a lecture of science only results in them getting that blank stare with their eyelids half-closed. And when you have finished and they finally regain consciousness the first thing they will blurt out is, "But, how can you kill such a pretty innocent animal?"

 

As far as Belo's thread title, I think it was spot on. That picture does evoke feelings of one sort or another in most of us. I personally found the replies interesting.

[nyantler]

For most of us the photo is not really that big a deal. We see or have seen images like that throughout our years of hunting. I'm sure the pic was taken and shown about as a means of showing some of the coyote hunting prowess by the hunter. The fact that it was taken from wherever it was originally posted and shown around other forums is not necessarily the fault of the picture taker. The need for others to pass the picture around to show it's poor taste is probably more the problem. Had it not made it to this forum.. 100's of people would not have had to witness the photo... multiply that by however many times it has been posted to make a point about poor taste and you can see how it is those that are trying to make the point that are actually fueling the fire for those that would take offense to the photo.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I like this one

 

[Five Seasons]

i actually think that's tastefully done. hunter posed. all animals hung and ready for prep. not just "tossed in a pickup". I'm sure they were at one point, but that's not where they chose to take the pic.

 

btw,

 

that's crazy!

[mike rossi]

I like this one

 

I saw this before. Out on the great plains this is feasible and a number of guys get this many - not because of high populations alone, but legal and physical access, the weather is the hardest part out there. If you think NY is cold, lol...

 

But in some cases some of these guys are FUR BUYERS... Keep that in mind....

[WNYBuckHunter]

I saw this before. Out on the great plains this is feasible and a number of guys get this many - not because of high populations alone, but legal and physical access, the weather is the hardest part out there. If you think NY is cold, lol...

 

But in some cases some of these guys are FUR BUYERS... Keep that in mind....

 

Yep, pic is actually from Canada. Pretty sure they are all tanned already. Pretty cool way to do the pic.

[Doc]

Yep, pic is actually from Canada. Pretty sure they are all tanned already. Pretty cool way to do the pic.

Can you imagine how much money is hanging there?