court support yeah right

[Culvercreek hunt club]

All of us need to find 3 to drag to the polls with us.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

The most important thing to a politician is getting re-elected. That transcends even their ideology and principles. That's what makes the election this fall so important. Our state legislators have made an assumption that the gun lobby is too weak to be a credible threat to their employment ...... Hence the support and votes for the Safe Act and the direct in-your-face challenge to the gun owners. What do you think would be the attitude toward gun legislation in the future if all of a sudden they saw a significant number of their pro-Safe Act buddies come up missing after the election. We could send a message that would last for decades. Of course the other side of the coin exists too ..... What do you think the attitude toward gun legislation would be if all these politicians that voted for the act go absolutely unpunished. That will mean that the gun lobby is neutered and an open season on the 2nd Amendment can be declared..... guaranteed.

 

We can do all the civil disobedience that we want, and the politicians who create these anti-gun laws will continue to do so without risk. The only risk is taken by the gun owner with that slam-dunk confession to a felony sitting in his closet.

Yup and most people that have those kind of guns are also hunters...That is untill that felony hits home and now he is a past hunter with no guns at all and a record. That will help his life and the sports future!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

There are so many ways around it right now. I wouldn't register  and let the court cases play out.

[Doc]

I am very glad that I don't have to make that decision. I am basically a law abiding sort for the most part, and when people start flashing that big "felony" word around, that does tend to get my attention. I don't think I would fare well in prison or with a criminal record, or with the confiscation of all of my guns. Even if the possibility of conviction is slight, I probably would comply and as they say, "live to fight again another day". I choose my battles carefully ..... lol.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am very glad that I don't have to make that decision. I am basically a law abiding sort for the most part, and when people start flashing that big "felony" word around, that does tend to get my attention. I don't think I would fare well in prison or with a criminal record, or with the confiscation of all of my guns. Even if the possibility of conviction is slight, I probably would comply and as they say, "live to fight again another day". I choose my battles carefully ..... lol.

 Question. Why register with other options out there?

[Doc]

 Question. Why register with other options out there?

There are other options? I wasn't aware of that. I thought this was a done deal of register now or become a felon.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

There are options to reconfigure so it avoids the characteristics that are outlined. It also is possible to just separate the components, in the case of an AR so they do not reside in one location as a complete firearm. Components (aside from high capacity mags) are not included in the law.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yep, just take the upper off of the lower, using the two take down pins and theres no need to register anything.

[bubba]

as long as you never plan to use it or assemble it ever again.  Renders it kind of useless in my thoughts

[Doc]

There are options to reconfigure so it avoids the characteristics that are outlined. It also is possible to just separate the components, in the case of an AR so they do not reside in one location as a complete firearm. Components (aside from high capacity mags) are not included in the law.

I see that as a viable solution while you try to sell it to somebody that lives in a normal state where the government is a bit more reasonable. But frankly unless I was willing to get rid of it, I have no use for a gun that I am afraid to actually use. But you're right, there are obviously alternatives to registration.

[WNYBuckHunter]

as long as you never plan to use it or assemble it ever again.  Renders it kind of useless in my thoughts

 

They cant charge you with planning to reassemble it. Sure, its useless until the safe act is overturned in some way or SHTF, and the safe act means nothing anyway. Takes you all of a minute to make it usable.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

as long as you never plan to use it or assemble it ever again.  Renders it kind of useless in my thoughts

Ok. let's say Joe has one. The law requires it be registered. what is the best option if Joe doesn't register it? He certainly isn't going to parade it at the range or toss it on his seat to go predator hunting with it. So it sits home. As long as it is sitting home anyway, why not pull it apart and have no chance at a felony? Like WNY said if you wanted it in a situation it would be together in a matter of a few minutes. For me that wouldn't be my go to first response firearm anyway but I can understand why someone would want it. If I had on(and I don't) it would be in the safe anyways,.

[Doc]

Can both halves be on the same premises as long as they are disassembled?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Can both halves be on the same premises as long as they are disassembled?

I haven't seen anything except speculation on that point. .

[WNYBuckHunter]

Can both halves be on the same premises as long as they are disassembled?

 

Theres no law against components at this point. Thats all the two halves are until you assemble them.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Theres no law against components at this point. Thats all the two halves are until you assemble them.

I am not disagreeing with you but without clear direction to enforcement, I wouldn't bet that a charge couldn't be filed on that. Both halves sitting next to each other in the safe might get you a trip to court. Probably would win with the poorly worded law but it would still cost you. If they wanted to use the "all the components = a gun" argument, there are probably gun shops that are in possession of AR's with more than one feature right now. lol  

[WNYBuckHunter]

I think a couple of the lawyers over on NYF have addressed it before. Ill see if I cant find it when I have some time to dig. IIRC, they said theres nothing that can be done according to how the law is written. You could take it a step further though, and remove the pistol grip from the lower as well. Its just one screw. They can write you a ticket for damn near anything though, you just have to fight it in court.

[Mr VJP]

Don't bet on it. A Judge in NY ain't gonna see it that way when all of the components are brought into court and shown to have been in your possession all at once.

As far as voting the anti-gun bums out of office, do you think Cuomo hasn't already promised them all cushy administration jobs in return for their SAFE Act votes, in the event they are voted out?

These guys were way ahead of all NY gun owners when they pounced on us with this law. Too bad NY gun owners didn't see it coming, in spite of all the warnings. The law makers who voted for this law were know anti-gun politicians years ago, but nobody cared to see to it they never got into office in the first place.

New York State can rightly be re-named the State of Denial, because that's what it's voters do best.

[Doc]

Don't bet on it. A Judge in NY ain't gonna see it that way when all of the components are brought into court and shown to have been in your possession all at once.

As far as voting the anti-gun bums out of office, do you think Cuomo hasn't already promised them all cushy administration jobs in return for their SAFE Act votes, in the event they are voted out?

These guys were way ahead of all NY gun owners when they pounced on us with this law. Too bad NY gun owners didn't see it coming, in spite of all the warnings. The law makers who voted for this law were know anti-gun politicians years ago, but nobody cared to see to it they never got into office in the first place.

New York State can rightly be re-named the State of Denial, because that's what it's voters do best.

So, it sounds like you are saying that it is stupid to try to do anything. The vote doesn't work. The people don't care. So why bother doing anything....right? Hey, who knows, maybe you're right.

[Mr VJP]

Close Doc. What I'm saying is it's too late. People should've listened when the alarms started going off years ago. At this point it will be politically impossible to reverse the damage that's been done. When your vote counted, people didn't care. They laughed at the folks who warned them, and snickered at the suggestion their rights were in danger.

Now you have two choices, comply like the sheep in NY always do, or move to another state that still allows Liberty and firearms freedom. If there was any hope, do you think firearms manufacturers with hundreds of millions invested in NY would be packing up and leaving the state? If anybody knows the situation well, it's them.

Sorry to put a damper on folk's hopes, but you guys need to start living with the reality you let your rights be taken because you refused to believe they would be. Trying to work within the system to get them back is fantasy, because the deck is stacked.

[Mr VJP]

"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active.  The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." -- John Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election, 1790. (Speeches. Dublin, 1808.) as quoted in the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, NY, 1953, p167 and also in Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, Boston, 1968, p479

 

"But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.  It behooves you, therefore, to be watchful in your States as well as in the Federal Government." -- Andrew Jackson, Farewell Address, March 4, 1837

 

“But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.”

- John Adams

[Doc]

Close Doc. What I'm saying is it's too late. People should've listened when the alarms started going off years ago. At this point it will be politically impossible to reverse the damage that's been done. When your vote counted, people didn't care. They laughed at the folks who warned them, and snickered at the suggestion their rights were in danger.

Now you have two choices, comply like the sheep in NY always do, or move to another state that still allows Liberty and firearms freedom. If there was any hope, do you think firearms manufacturers with hundreds of millions invested in NY would be packing up and leaving the state? If anybody knows the situation well, it's them.

Sorry to put a damper on folk's hopes, but you guys need to start living with the reality you let your rights be taken because you refused to believe they would be. Trying to work within the system to get them back is fantasy, because the deck is stacked.

No, actually you are doing quite a bit more damage than simply "putting a damper on folk's hopes". You are actively working along side the anti gun forces in trying to discourage any organized voter drives, registration drives, and the efforts of all gun advocacy organizations to actually make a difference. You are basically telling people not to bother voting because it will do no good.  While you are attempting to make yourself feel good with your "I told you so" attitude, you are doing a real good a job of making it all a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Mr VJP]

Wrong again Doc.  I encourage all gun owners to do everything they can to try and vote the evil out of office.  I want them to do everything they can to try and make a difference.  Because when they exhaust every resource at their disposal and find it was all in vain anyway, they will then finally realize what they are dealing with in this state and this country.  Don't you think gun owners in California and NJ have been trying?

 

Once you let them take your rights, you can NEVER get them back using THEIR system.

 

I lived in NJ when all of this happened decades ago under Gov. Florio.  I moved to NY to get away from NJ's "assault weapons" law.  I warned NYers not to allow it to happen here and people scoffed at the idea.  I encouraged all I knew to join the NRA and every other gun rights group I could think of, only to be attacked for the idea.  Some on here even attacked the NRA as extremist and not worthy of their membership.  I have a very low tolerance for stupidity, so I just sat back and watched it happen while I started making plans to escape from NY.  That was an interesting movie by the way, and if you watch it today, it has some very prophetic lines for NY residents today.

 

I will be moving again soon because I need to find a state that has proactive voters that believe in gun rights, not one that has reactive voters that are willing to let them be taken in the first place.

 

If you think I'm the problem here Doc, you really do not understand the problem.

 

 

[philoshop]

I've been hard at work motivating people to use their voting powers to dislodge the current regime. Two young nieces who had never used a firearm before I gave them some lessons and range time last month, one niece's boyfriend who already knew and understood what I had to say, one friend who tends to lean toward the liberal side, two strangers who were standing in front of the empty ammo shelves in the local wal-mart, and numerous friends who are gun enthusiasts but not necessarily politically aware.

The two nieces have never voted before but are pretty excited about it now, thanks in part to the boyfriend.

My Democrat buddy is, well, a lifelong Democrat and also a hunter and gun owner. I think I've at least planted some seed of doubt.

The two guys in wal-mart were completely unaware of what's happening in NY until I explained it to them. In both cases I got a pen and some paper from the cashier to point them toward the stickies on this site re: the SAFE act. Neither was a typical 'wal-martian', just people who didn't know.

The gun-enthusiast friends are a mixed bag. Some are completely aware of the potential ramifications of SAFE, but many see it as not really affecting them because they don't own banned guns. I explain the ammo background checks, restrictions on private party sales, 5 yr re-registration for handgun permits (and the way the legislation was left open to possible revocation based on 'needs' testing and psychiatric evaluation), medical privacy issues, etc, and most are picking their jaws off the floor. Again, I point them toward the stickies here.

In all cases I stress the need for voter participation to help stop the assault on our our 2A rights.

The ballot box is the only broad-spectrum tool we have right now.

The issue of civil disobedience is a very personal choice for me, and I would never try to encourage anyone to follow that path without first having a firm grasp of the possible consequences. Not something I would bring up in casual conversation.

 

Thanks Doc for the stickies here. It's making my job easier having it all in one place. Maybe there will be some new members here too.

Mark

[WNYBuckHunter]

I am not disagreeing with you but without clear direction to enforcement, I wouldn't bet that a charge couldn't be filed on that. Both halves sitting next to each other in the safe might get you a trip to court. Probably would win with the poorly worded law but it would still cost you. If they wanted to use the "all the components = a gun" argument, there are probably gun shops that are in possession of AR's with more than one feature right now. lol  

 

I just saw this posted on FB...

 

http://bearingarms.com/update-lancaster-ny-rifle-seizures-not-ny-safe-act-related/?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm

 

"He stated that the two carbines confiscated from the impounded vehicle were confiscated in order to perform a ballistics test, to see if either firearm can be matched to the slug that struck the building. If the 9mm bullet recovered from the building is matched to the Beretta Storm carbine, then the owner of that rifle is likely to find himself battling a felony reckless endangerment charge.

Captain Laurienz said that the owner of the AR-15 equipped with the AR MR2 device will likely have his rifle returned to him once it has been ruled out as the weapon that fired the shot."

 

I know its not exactly what we were talking about, but it looks like the MR2 does make the AR15 safe act compliant, even with the pistol grip, etc. Thats a good tidbit to know. Just replace your magazine catch and youre good to go! No need to put some hideous stock on it, have your barrel recrowned to get rid of the muzzle device, or even separate your upper and lower.