Four Hundred & Fifty Eight

[airedale]

Time of the year where I have been doing some straightening out of the stuff in my gun room creating some order. I did not realize how much 458 Winchester Mag stuff I had laying around from a rifle I owned back in the 80s. Between some loaded ammo and loading components I bet I have close to a grand's worth sitting here doing nothing, although some of the components I can and do use for 45-70s.

Nothing like a good excuse to get something to fire this stuff off, so I found a new SSK stainless Encore barrel chamber in 458 Win Mag that will go right on one of my frames, it also has a threaded barrel so I can put a muzzle brake on it.

Hit the loading bench and put up some 350 gr, a couple of batches of 400 gr and some 500 gr.

Wanted the little Leupold 2.5X ultra light but can not find one anywhere so I ordered the Leupold 1X4 variable along with a muzzle brake. Should all be here in a week or so. The lead Sled I picked up last summer is going to get a real workout.

My old 458 was one of the most fun firearms I have ever owned and I am happy I have another one.

Al

[First-light]

Really cool!

 

[wolc123]

My neighbor had a Ruger #1 in .458 Win mag.  I shot it a few times, and I was surprised at how tame the recoil felt, from that heavy rifle.  I’d say that it punched my shoulder roughly half as hard, as my hardest kicking gun, a 16 ga. Ithaca featherlight model 37 deerslayer shotgun.  

How does the weight of your .458 compare to a Ruger # 1 ?

[airedale]

11 hours ago, wolc123 said:

How does the weight of your .458 compare to a Ruger # 1 ?

You are right about weight being a large determining factor of felt recoil, my first 458 was a special African  Ruger model 77 that weighed about 9 lbs. It was not bad to shoot standing off hand, on the bench was a different story and she would belt you pretty hard. The ammunition also plays a huge factor, the bullet weight is key. The 500 gr loads will kick way more than the 350 gr loads.

The Thompson Center Encore rifles I have will vary in weight according to what type of stock I have on, the synthetic stocks are much lighter than the stocks made from wood. Also barrel contour will be a factor in weight.

I will probably try both stock styles but will end up using the walnut with it's heavy weight for most shooting. As far as actual weight I would say with a synthetic stock and the 458's barrel contour around 71/2 lbs, the wood stock will add at least a pound more.

One more thing this threaded barrel allows for the mounting of a muzzle brake that claims to give a huge reduction in felt recoil, we shall see if that is true.

Al

Edited March 11, 2023 by airedale

[wolc123]

I think that my neighbor said his Ruger # 1 was around 12 pounds.  Not sure what ammo he had, but he claimed it was suitable for elephant.  We shot it from a bench and I can vividly recall how tame that the recoil felt, compared to all of my slug guns.  
 

i would think that an old fixed power scope, like this Weaver 1.5 on my Ithaca featherlight, would hold up very well on your .458.

 

That little “featherweight” shotgun is a real shoulder pounder.  I never noticed it while hunting, in the late fall and winter, but I never shoot it from a bench without a good recoil pad.  My shoulder is thankful that I only shot my ML, during the early September antlerless deer season this year.  Touching that Ithaca off, in just a t-shirt, would definitely cause some serious bruising. 

[airedale]

• Some data that measures recoil from various cartridges.
• =========================================
• Over 30 ft-lbs – Massive recoil that can be difficult for even seasoned shooters to shoot accurately.
• Over 25 ft-lbs – In a lightweight rifle, even experienced shooters can struggle to shoot more than 15 rounds without pain or developing a flinch, UNLESS a muzzle brake, suppressor, or heavier rifle is used.
• Over 15 ft-lbs – Begins to be very difficult to spot the bullet impact on target through the scope because of the recoil.
• Under 10 ft-lbs – Even newer shooters can easily spot impacts through the scope during recoil. Ideal for youth shooters.
• Under 4 ft-lbs – Feels more like a vibration than a “push.”

Keep in mind that attaching a muzzle brake reduces the free recoil energy by about 40% and attaching a suppressor reduces free recoil energy by about 32%. As you read through the table, remember you can pick a much heavier-hitting cartridge if you’ll be using a muzzle device. I do NOT recommend muzzle brakes for youth shooters because the loudness scares them more than the recoil–even with hearing protection on.

Without further ado, I give you… the rifle recoil database!

Cartridge	Free Recoil Energy (Ft-lbs)	Recoil Velocity (FPS)	Avg Bullet Weight	Avg Muzzle Velocity
.378 Weatherby Magnum	60.68	19.38	293	3,040
.30-378 Weatherby Magnum	45.78	18.39	205	3,205
.458 Win Mag	55.57	17.95	500	2,135
.416 Ruger	52.72	17.56	388	2,528
.416 Rigby	52.49	17.52	400	2,412
.416 Remington Magnum	50.46	17.18	400	2,401
.338-378 Weatherby Magnum	45.40	16.95	256	2,974
.300 RUM	34.97	16.07	205	3,017
.375 Ruger	41.67	16.06	293	2,713
.300 Weatherby Magnum	33.18	15.65	205	3,002
.300 PRC	32.42	15.47	210	3,021
.338 RUM	37.80	15.46	256	2,872
.338 Lapua Magnum	37.70	15.44	256	2,920
.375 H&H Magnum	38.28	15.39	293	2,650
.340 Weatherby Magnum	36.88	15.28	256	2,866
.30 Nosler	31.58	15.27	205	3,009
.300 Winchester Magnum	29.99	14.88	205	2,903
.325 WSM	28.95	14.80	204	2,817
.28 Nosler	28.27	14.72	167	3,152
.45-70 Govt	30.81	14.68	331	2,065
.33 Nosler	33.91	14.65	258	2,892
7mm Weatherby Magnum	26.07	14.13	168	3,055
7 STW	25.91	14.09	168	3,044
.300 WSM	26.54	14.00	205	2,861
.27 Nosler	25.28	13.93	159	3,157
9.3 x 62mm Mauser	30.72	13.82	277	2,555
7mm PRC	25.2	13.4	175	3,000
6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum	24.72	13.79	138	3,325
.338 Win Mag	29.90	13.75	256	2,705
.270 Weatherby Magnum	23.25	13.36	144	3,154
7mm Rem Mag	23.15	13.32	163	2,937
7 WSM	22.50	13.13	162	3,008
.35 Whelen	27.14	13.02	225	2,805
.26 Nosler	21.45	12.85	128	3,312
.270 WSM	21.24	12.77	149	3,050
.300 Ruger (RCM)	21.60	12.63	195	2,613
.30-06 Springfield	21.34	12.55	205	2,646
7 SAUM	20.53	12.54	162	2,890
6.8 Western	23.6	13	175	2,835
6.5 Weatherby RPM	19.93	12.38	143	3,123
.450 Bushmaster	22.22	12.27	268	2,175
.257 Weatherby Magnum	19.13	12.18	111	3,294
.444 Marlin	22.99	12.16	266	2,278
.280 Ackley Improved	19.29	12.16	163	2,834
.338 Federal	22.84	12.02	239	2,510
.50 BMG	83.17	11.91	724	2,799
.280 Remington	18.35	11.85	160	2,848
.264 Winchester Magnum	17.68	11.66	138	3,002
.270 Winchester	17.64	11.64	149	2,944
.308 Winchester	18.27	11.62	202	2,491
6.5 PRC	16.27	11.19	142	2,972
7mm-08 Remington	14.88	10.68	160	2,672
6.5-284 Norma Match	14.48	10.56	143	2,782
7mm Mauser	13.24	10.07	160	2,565
.25-06 Remington	12.69	9.92	111	2,988
.260 Remington	12.56	9.83	143	2,673
.240 Weatherby Magnum	12.06	9.70	101	3,063
6.5 Creedmoor	11.87	9.56	138	2,695
6mm Creedmoor	10.89	9.22	105	3,022
6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser	10.90	9.16	139	2,532
6mm Remington	10.36	8.99	103	2,919
.22 Creedmoor	9.15	8.60	65	3,500
.30-30 Winchester	9.97	8.58	163	2,320
.243 Winchester	9.22	8.48	103	2,922
.220 Swift	8.54	8.30	55	3,794
.22-250	7.73	7.90	60	3,515
.204 Ruger	6.18	7.37	38	3,963
6mm BR	6.92	7.35	85	3,011
.22 Nosler	6.52	7.25	65	3,342
7.62 x 39mm	7.11	7.24	137	2,303
6.8 Remington SPC	6.79	7.22	110	2,579
6.5 Grendel	6.18	6.89	125	2,283
.224 Valkyrie	5.51	6.67	71	3,095
.223 / 5.56	5.48	6.65	69	3,122
.350 Legend	7.08	6.61	173	2,231
.222 Remington	4.00	5.69	54	3,124
.300 Blackout	4.02	5.45	192	1,530
.22 Hornet	1.37	3.32	50	2,469
.17 Hornet	1.23	3.31	23	3,527
.17 WSM	0.76	2.60	21	2,903
.17 HMR	0.25	1.50	17	2,520
.22 WMR	0.26	1.44	40	1,761
.22lr	0.12	0.96	39	1,239

[Dinsdale]

My first 458 win mag had a narrow stock and was a poor fit,  too light at 8 1/2 lbs. hammer your cheek bone on recoil.

Second weighed about 10lbs  plus a lightish scope (1-5x20). 

I had that re chambered to 458 Lott, advantage being you can still shoot win mag ammo, bit more case volume to put the bullets up to what the win mag was supposed to be but never achieved. 458 win mag had a horrible start with significant powder problems, they expanded in heat and could push the bullet out of the case. Not so good for a design intended to hunt big stuff in the hot sun. But that was corrected with better powders that came along.

Brake will help significantly, but not so favored by anyone standing around (not liked by guides at all). I have removable and use them for some practice, and put a protective thread cap for hunting. But the Lott doesn’t have one and doesn’t need it for me.

I don’t shoot any heavy kickers from a sit down rest, only standing so you can take the recoil much better.

Chart needs rifle weight to give a better idea, how it’s distributed counts too.My favorite rifle is a 375HH that is a bit muzzle heavy on purpose and shoots terrific and why it’s my favorite gun. Helps with muzzle rise and easy to shoot with a t shirt. Custom fit for drop and lop doesn’t hurt either.

500 gr Woodleigh solid from the 458 Lott will go through 6 feet of elephant skull, brain, vertebrae, and out the top of between the shoulders from 20 yds. Only recovered one solid from an insurance shot from between the shoulders animal laying down and in the paunch stopped by the undigested grass.

 

[airedale]

The sighting in process of a heavy hitter from the bench is where I get the most punishment. I do a lot of bench rest shooting with rimfire rifles and with the shooting technique I use they are not held tightly, that same technique with a big boy cartridge jars your brain and the recoil will have the scope coming close to your eye. I had a fellow show me how to use a half bag of lead shot draped over my shoulder which absorbs a lot of the recoil, been using that tip for many years and it has served me well. 

Have a bunch of heavy hitters shooting I plan on doing when the weather gets nice, the new lead sled should make dialing that type of rifle in a bit more pleasant, if it does not work out I will revert to the bag of shot trick.

As for recoil with a hard kicker while hunting and shooting at game the occasional shot I take is negligible and not even on my mind.

Al

[airedale]

I weighed the two Thompson Center Encore rifles with a handy little scale I have, supposed to be for luggage and fishing but it works good for guns too and accurate enough for that job.

The 45-70 rifle with the synthetic stock has a medium weight barrel 24 inches long, it weighs 6.9 lbs as pictured.

The 22-250 rifle with the walnut stock and a 26 inch medium contour barrel weighs 9.6 lbs as pictured.

A big difference in the scope sizes that are mounted on each rifle also which play a role in weight.

The 45-70 is set up as a light weight carry rifle while the 22-250 I view as a long range varmint-target proposition.

The TC Flex Tech stock setup fits me perfect, even though it has an odd ball look when I shoulder that rifle everything is exactly where it is supposed to be. That being said setup with the 45-70 barrel and the stout 350 gr loads I have it sighted in with, recoil is brutal but tolerable. With the 458 Win Mag barrel firing full power 500 gr loads it would have to be most unpleasant to shoot from a rest unless the claims made by the muzzle brake company are close to what they say.

So my scope and rings came in yesterday and I got everything mounted up, I put the 458 barrel with the slightly heavier 1X4 Leupold on to the frame and weighted it up and she came in at 7.4 lbs, still too light for a 458 Win Mag in my opinion. So once the muzzle brake is mounted that will add a few more ounces and the total will probably be just under 8 lbs. If the muzzle brake works as claimed this is the setup I prefer. I can fall back to the walnut stocked frame if it does not work out.

This is the kind of stuff that is interesting and fun for me, in the end it will be right.

Al

 

[airedale]

The final piece of the project came today, the muzzle brake. Installed brings the total weight to 7.85 lbs.

The Howitzer is now ready for an artillery barrage when I get some decent weather.

Al

[Robby]

I made a .69 caliber, 495 grain ball, that is actually pleasant to shoot, off hand. On the bench it will detach your retina's and loosen your fillings! Highly accurate though.

 

Getting old and frail I guess, don't shoot it much.

Robby

Edited March 17, 2023 by Robby
Felt like it.

[airedale]

This week I really put the TC Encore to the test with that 458 barrel. I am amazed at how inherently accurate these big calibers like 45-70 and 458 mag can be out of a good rifle firing quality ammunition. Getting this rifle dialed in without too much problem was due to the recoil reduction of the Caldwell Lead Sled. Firing a light weight 458 mag rifle from the bench with stiff loads is unpleasant and that is putting it mildly. The Lead Sled took care of all that unpleasantness making concentration of taking the shot easy.

The muzzle brake on the barrel prevented me from using any of my bore sighters as the arbor would not reach the inside of the barrel, the muzzle brake is made from aluminum so my magnetic bore sighter would not work either. With a bolt action I would have just rested the rifle, removed the bolt and looked down the bore centering the bullseye and then dialing the scope in on the center of the target, with the Encore I could not use that technique unless I took the barrel off. After wasting a bunch of shots trying to get on the paper, I just held by hand the magnetic bore sighter on the front of the barrel and had my buddy dial the scope into the center of the sighter's grid and that got me on target.

Once on target getting her precisely sighted in was easy and like I said the accuracy was amazing and all largely due to the Caldwell Lead Sled.

Al

[airedale]

Thompson Center is back in business and will soon be available, Greg Ritz the new owner doing a piece on one of my favorite firearms the TC Encore.