Too Many Yote's!!

[Curmudgeon]

You can use neutral words like "pressure" or "hunting" or even "harvesting" if you are neutral.  "Persecution" is a negative term with an obvious bias.  Doesn't matter if you attach it to wolves or hunters.

 

"Pressure" and "harvesting" are not neutral. They are euphemisms for "killing". Killing is what we are talking about. Killing is what we do. "Killing" has its own negative bias which is why DEC refers to deer kills as "harvests". It is more palatable to the general public. "Persecuted" is less negative that "killed" because you can "persecute" something without "killing" it.

 

Feel free to insert "killed" for "persecuted" wherever you wish in my previous posts both for wolves and humans.

[Mr VJP]

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw

[bowtech2]

Curmudgeon?

Bow tech, please pm me

I did pm you.

[jjb4900]

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw

I thought it was "never put lipstick on a pig, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig".......

[thunnus]

Hey guys let's go easy on curmudgeon: his ideas may not be orthodox and almost unpalatable but they are certainly difficult to dispute.

We have had a pair of very large yotes, stalk a neighbor - but he won't admit it- and make a run at me, early bow season in the dark before dawn.

The alpha barely flinched, the beta button hooked

[HOUNDS77]

NOT ENOUGH! Killing too many. Over the weekend with the hounds

 

 

 

[Pygmy]

NOT ENOUGH! Killing too many. Over the weekend with the hounds

 

 

 

Killing those five is going to increase reproduction..

 

They're barely even DEAD yet and they're sniffing each other's butts...

[HOUNDS77]

Actually, the more you take out the bigger litters they will have.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thats fine..Let them breed. When you take out enough dogs and mature dogs at that, you end up with dumber young of the year to grow. Those are the easiest to kill anytime of the year.

 

Great hunt by the way!!

Edited February 3, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[nyantler]

Hunting coyotes for sport and fun is way different than hunting them thinking you're doing anything noble to help the whitetail deer... one is definitely persecution in its intent and the other is merely having fun hunting. If for years you have been killing big numbers of coyotes off the same piece of land, that ought to tell you something about the effectiveness as an eradication method.

 

 

[nyantler]

Thats fine..Let them breed. When you take out enough dogs and mature dogs at that, you end up with dumber young of the year to grow. Those are the easiest to kill anytime of the year.

 

Great hunt by the way!!

 

Even a bunch of dumb coyotes still have to eat... and yes it was a great hunt.

[Mr VJP]

Hunting coyotes for sport and fun is way different than hunting them thinking you're doing anything noble to help the whitetail deer... one is definitely persecution in its intent and the other is merely having fun hunting. If for years you have been killing big numbers of coyotes off the same piece of land, that ought to tell you something about the effectiveness as an eradication method.

 

We started hunting them about a decade ago in my area when we first started seeing them.  If for no other reason than we knew they were there and didn't like being awakened at 3AM by their howling.  I guess our hunting was effective, as we hardly ever see any around anymore except on the opener of deer season when they get pushed around by hunters in other areas.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Hunting coyotes for sport and fun is way different than hunting them thinking you're doing anything noble to help the whitetail deer... one is definitely persecution in its intent and the other is merely having fun hunting. If for years you have been killing big numbers of coyotes off the same piece of land, that ought to tell you something about the effectiveness as an eradication method.

I know i did something noble for my deer herd and myself. I had twice as many yotes three years ago than i do today and i have three times the deer today than i had three years ago. People can call it what they like.Hunting,sport,killing.what have you, I know the research says they breed up their numbers and we still get a bunch of dogs every year but by no means are their numbers anywhere what they were when the war started.

[Doc]

One thing is for sure in NYS. The coyote is effectively at the top of their food chain. In other words, aside from disease and starvation, the only population control comes from man. I think that sometimes Mother Nature needs a bit of a hand in decreasing numbers, regardless of the species, but especially with species that have no other natural controls.

 

Smaller numbers means bigger litters? ... Perhaps, but that just means that hunters and trappers have to work a little harder and knock off more of the newcomers.

[Mr VJP]

I think it would also be better if there wasn't any closed season on them.

 

[nyantler]

We started hunting them about a decade ago in my area when we first started seeing them.  If for no other reason than we knew they were there and didn't like being awakened at 3AM by their howling.  I guess our hunting was effective, as we hardly ever see any around anymore except on the opener of deer season when they get pushed around by hunters in other areas.

We have seen the same results on our property (1000 acres) and we haven't really hunted them at all. Seemed overrun with them a few years ago, but haven't seen or heard of them much at all in the last two years. We have killed two coyotes over the last 6 years during the deer season. So, based on anecdotal evidence... both our approaches have been effective.

[nyantler]

One thing is for sure in NYS. The coyote is effectively at the top of their food chain. In other words, aside from disease and starvation, the only population control comes from man. I think that sometimes Mother Nature needs a bit of a hand in decreasing numbers, regardless of the species, but especially with species that have no other natural controls.

 

Smaller numbers means bigger litters? ... Perhaps, but that just means that hunters and trappers have to work a little harder and knock off more of the newcomers.

 

I agree and I have no problem with coyote hunting... in fact, it's fun.. and very necessary to keep populations at a manageable level. I think some hunters have different opinions of what those levels should be though. And... honestly, I don't really know what those levels should be either.. I just know that the whole "coyotes are decimating the deer herds" is nothing more than highly perpetuated myth and they pose no real threat to 99% of NY's deer herd.

[Doc]

I just know that the whole "coyotes are decimating the deer herds" is nothing more than highly perpetuated myth and they pose no real threat to 99% of NY's deer herd.

Well, I can't say that I have seen a lot of evidence that coyotes in our area are having any serious impact on deer populations. Of course what I know about that issue anywhere else is very little. My familiarity with how coyotes impact anyone else's area is absolutely non existent. However, I could buy into the "coyotes are ruining our herd" claims if they were ever accompanied my some kind of documentation (photos, etc.). I do think it is way too easy to blame coyotes for every instance of thinning deer density. I think it is important to be sure the right thing is being blamed for deer population changes. Coyotes do make for an easy guess, but unless those guesses are backed up with evidence, the real reasons for downward changes in local deer density may be going ignored.

[HOUNDS77]

I think it would also be better if there wasn't any closed season on them.

 

This has been tried unsuccessfully. 

[nyantler]

Well, I can't say that I have seen a lot of evidence that coyotes in our area are having any serious impact on deer populations. Of course what I know about that issue anywhere else is very little. My familiarity with how coyotes impact anyone else's area is absolutely non existent. However, I could buy into the "coyotes are ruining our herd" claims if they were ever accompanied my some kind of documentation (photos, etc.). I do think it is way too easy to blame coyotes for every instance of thinning deer density. I think it is important to be sure the right thing is being blamed for deer population changes. Coyotes do make for an easy guess, but unless those guesses are backed up with evidence, the real reasons for downward changes in local deer density may be going ignored.

 

Right...I am sure that coyotes have a place in the deer management equation... but no more than other predators impact overall wildlife numbers... they are a part of mother natures plan. To single them out over the greatest predator (man) as having the greatest impact on deer numbers wouldn't make a lot of sense. Sometimes hunters fail to give themselves enough credit for why deer management in NY can be a challenge.

[Curmudgeon]

Hey - members of the He-Man Coyote Haters Club -

 

The conventional wisdom is taking a hit. Where are you guys?

[nyantler]

Hey - members of the He-Man Coyote Haters Club -

 

The conventional wisdom is taking a hit. Where are you guys?

 

Funny... but I used to be an avid member years ago.. I jumped on the coyote haters bandwagon just like everyone else hoping to eliminate the "huge" threat they might pose on our deer herd... then I did some research trying to find out info on how I could reduce the numbers maybe on our property and their real impact on whitetails in NY... once I learned the facts and educated myself I realized that I had nothing to worry about from coyotes.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Funny... but I used to be an avid member years ago.. I jumped on the coyote haters bandwagon just like everyone else hoping to eliminate the "huge" threat they might pose on our deer herd... then I did some research trying to find out info on how I could reduce the numbers maybe on our property and their real impact on whitetails in NY... once I learned the facts and educated myself I realized that I had nothing to worry about from coyotes.

I was never on any wagon until their numbers over powered our deer numbers. Their harassing of my livestock and their getting in and killing others were the straw that broke. Gutting deer and have them around you. Having them sneaking in on your turkey set ups.

 I believe they decimated the wildlife where they live around here and have spread out further to make a living. Not real sure. All i know is a couple 3 years of shoot on sight and heavy dog hunting has brought their numbers down.  Big Time.  Thats why i dont hold alot of faith in the...You kill more and more will come theory. After 3 years that has just not happened.

[ncountry]

   http://www.outdoornews.com/August-2013/Effects-of-coyotes-on-deer-getting-new-look/

 

Interesting article.

[Mr VJP]

This has been tried unsuccessfully. 

 

How is it that having no closed season on yotes can be considered unsuccessful?  Are we saying allowing the hunting of yotes year round increases their numbers, or nobody wanted to hunt them in the summer?