Picking a Fight

[Curmudgeon]

Springers don't point, and woodcock are favored by owners of pointing breeds because  hold good for a pointing dog and they are excellent table fare, better than pheasant, and much better than chicken. And they actually can rocket along, you don't always get the lay up shots at them. (As an after thought, I also want to say that pheasant are actually one of the faster birds once they do get going). Also, I suspect birds which are migratory give hunters a sense of urgency too, because they don't stay around the entire season, I think that subliminally motivates some hunters.

 

Yes, a springer would flush those birds vertical right in front until they cleared cover. Then they would stall like they were thinking about where to go - being between the dog and me. Then they would head out in a level straight line.

 

Edited February 16, 2015 by Curmudgeon

[mike rossi]

Yes, a springer would flush those birds vertical right in front until they cleared cover. Then they would stall like they were thinking about where to go - being between the dog and me. Then they would head out in a level straight line.

 

 

Yup. They often will spring almost straight up from the cover, momentarily stall, and then fly in a straight vector for a distance and then curve before they land. Seems the longer they fly straight the faster they travel... That is the characteristic woodcock flush, but they often behave in different ways when flushed, They will sometimes walk or run on the ground too, all game birds do as a matter of fact,  even bobwhite. It isn't just ringnecks that run on the ground, although  they are better equipped to sprint through heavy cover for a long distance.

[scolopaxmatt]

Having done most of my bird hunting over springers, I found woodcock to be almost unsporting. Except for Mike's explanation about having accustomed himself to faster birds, I'm having trouble understanding why woodcock would be someone's first choice.

 

The simple answer is that they taste the best of all the upland birds.  If you don't hunt over dogs the game is nowhere near "unsporting". 

 

It then becomes a slow, deliberate examination of suitable habitat that climaxes in the erratic twittering and twisting of that beautiful brown bird.  This also calls for real restraint.  You've got to let the bird get out a bit so you don't chew it up with a load of 8's. 

 

The bird is also downright fascinating.  He's a weird looking little fellow with an upside down brain and eyes like black holes.

 

But, as I'm sure you've guessed, I'm not exactly able to remain objective on this particular point.

[mike rossi]

The simple answer is that they taste the best of all the upland birds.  If you don't hunt over dogs the game is nowhere near "unsporting". 

 

It then becomes a slow, deliberate examination of suitable habitat that climaxes in the erratic twittering and twisting of that beautiful brown bird.  This also calls for real restraint.  You've got to let the bird get out a bit so you don't chew it up with a load of 8's. 

 

The bird is also downright fascinating.  He's a weird looking little fellow with an upside down brain and eyes like black holes.

 

But, as I'm sure you've guessed, I'm not exactly able to remain objective on this particular point.

 

Wait a second, are you saying that hunting woodcock with dogs makes it unsporting? Thats a new one.... 

[scolopaxmatt]

Wait a second, are you saying that hunting woodcock with dogs makes it unsporting? Thats a new one.... 

 

Not at all.  Curmudgeon said doing so is ALMOST unsporting.  I tend to agree.  The birds sit so tight it takes the fun and spontanaity out of it.

 

That being said, if I could afford a nice Llewellin setter I'd most certainly have one.

[ants]

Years ago, when I was way into upland hunting, a friend raised  a small number of Hungarian Partridge (pretty sure thats what they were) and stocked them along with Ring necks, in his fields. Every now and then the dogs  would flush one. They must be the fastest game birds on earth. We never killed a single one. Not only were they lightening fast but they always seemed to hang at the edges of fields, close to the tree line. The dog would turn on, there would be a flash of the bird, and he would be in the woods and gone before you realized what happened.

[mike rossi]

Not at all.  Curmudgeon said doing so is ALMOST unsporting.  I tend to agree.  The birds sit so tight it takes the fun and spontanaity out of it.

 

That being said, if I could afford a nice Llewellin setter I'd most certainly have one.

 

I dont know if I agree with that. They are pretty tricky but  you describe it like it is calling pull to shoot clays, then again some people (anti hunters) characterize dove hunting with clay shooting which is pretty ridiculous... 

 

Why dont you go to the dog pound and get a bird dog? Or buy one for a hundred bucks. Maybe you are referring to the expense of caring, feeding, and training, or are you caught up in that expensive bloodline folklore? I would agree with your choice of an english setter though... 

[mike rossi]

Years ago, when I was way into upland hunting, a friend raised  a small number of Hungarian Partridge (pretty sure thats what they were) and stocked them along with Ring necks, in his fields. Every now and then the dogs  would flush one. They must be the fastest game birds on earth. We never killed a single one. Not only were they lightening fast but they always seemed to hang at the edges of fields, close to the tree line. The dog would turn on, there would be a flash of the bird, and he would be in the woods and gone before you realized what happened.

 

I have had experience with them in the wild state. They are non native, like pheasant and chukar, but there are hunt-able wild populations in some states. They often are in coveys which explode at once and confuse gunners, like bobwhites and other quails. It is a real covey flush, unlike the flock flushes of sharp-tailed grouse and prairie chicken, They are also found in pairs more often than singles. They prefer short cover most of the time and usually dont allow either dog or hunter to get close to them. They flush in a burst and seem to fly fast, not sure if they actually do, but they are indeed one of the most challenging upland birds. 

[scolopaxmatt]

I dont know if I agree with that. They are pretty tricky but  you describe it like it is calling pull to shoot clays, then again some people (anti hunters) characterize dove hunting with clay shooting which is pretty ridiculous... 

 

Why dont you go to the dog pound and get a bird dog? Or buy one for a hundred bucks. Maybe you are referring to the expense of caring, feeding, and training, or are you caught up in that expensive bloodline folklore? I would agree with your choice of an english setter though... 

 

Having never hunted doves I can't speak to that first part, but I sure would like to be able to hunt them here in my own backyard.  I'll agree they can be tricky, just not as tricky as a lightening fast grouse or a hot footed pheasant. 

 

If we're talking pheasant, there's a bird that demands a good dog.  I get lucky a few times each season and take a few home but a canine would even out the odds. 

 

When the time comes, the pound is definitely the route I'll take.  I figure if I can find a mutt with some hunting blood in him, get my hands on him early enough, I stand a fair chance of having an adequate hunting partner.  At the moment I already have a hound mouth the feed and further additions to the pack have been vetoed so to speak.  I've tried to turn my greyhound into a bird dog, but he simply won't have it.  A great companion, but not much prey drive. 

 

The bloodline business is a bit out of hand.  I don't want a field trial dog anyways.  For my particular style of hunting I want a boot brushing hunting pal more than a wide ranging bird murdering machine.  If someone were to gift a purebred washout my way, well that's a different story. 

[wildcat junkie]

I found a partialy trained 1 1/2 year old Springer @ the Humane Society when I was 16 & my current Brittany was a freebie rescue from a co-worker's daughter. Max was totally green @ 15 months & I had to invest in an e-collar. That is him in the PIX that I posted above.

[mike rossi]

Pretty tough to retrieve woodcock without a dog. 

[scolopaxmatt]

A freebie!  Now that's the way to go.  A trip to our local human society (SPCA) finds mostly pit bull mixes in the boxes.  Max appears to be enjoying semi retirement.  

[scolopaxmatt]

Pretty tough to retrieve woodcock without a dog. 

 

No way.  As long as you keep your eyes open after the shot and mark them down it's not too bad.  And don't give up too soon.  Haven't left one for dead yet.

 

I've heard of dogs not liking to retrieve woodcock, anyone seen that or know anything about it?

[Doewhacker]

The bloodline business is a bit out of hand. I don't want a field trial dog anyways. For my particular style of hunting I want a boot brushing hunting pal more than a wide ranging bird murdering machine. If someone were to gift a purebred washout my way, well that's a different story.

Blood lines are important but you have to know what to look for. Testing (hunting and show ring to an extent) helps prove the breeders work, with out it you get bad traits that you might see in certain popular breeds now.

If you keep an eye out when you are ready you just might find a rescue purebred. I don't recommend taking in a "washout" as you will inherit someone else's problem.

If I was a nice guy I might offer to take you out with my dogs next fall, but I wouldn't want you to get spoiled hunting over my fancy purebred expensive bird dogs ???? and no you can't have a puppy for free lol.

If you and I are both still active on this website next fall I'll look you up for some Timberdoodle huntin.

[Doewhacker]

No way. As long as you keep your eyes open after the shot and mark them down it's not too bad. And don't give up too soon. Haven't left one for dead yet.

I've heard of dogs not liking to retrieve woodcock, anyone seen that or know anything about it?

I haven't seen that but I have force broke my dogs so they don't blink a retrieve.

[Doewhacker]

A freebie! Now that's the way to go. A trip to our local human society (SPCA) finds mostly pit bull mixes in the boxes. Max appears to be enjoying semi retirement.

If you really want a rescue shoot me your contact info and the next time a German short hair comes up I'll let you know. I'm in a club and see at least a couple GSP's go up every year. Not my choice for a dog but LOTS of folks love them. To high strung for me.

[Pygmy]

No way.  As long as you keep your eyes open after the shot and mark them down it's not too bad.  And don't give up too soon.  Haven't left one for dead yet.

 

I've heard of dogs not liking to retrieve woodcock, anyone seen that or know anything about it?

 

 

I agree....I don't ever remember losing a downed woodcock, with or without a dog.

 

As far as dogs retreiving them, I have had 3 springers and none of them hesitated to retrieve a woodcock, or any other bird, for that matter..

[Pygmy]

No way.  As long as you keep your eyes open after the shot and mark them down it's not too bad.  And don't give up too soon.  Haven't left one for dead yet.

 

I've heard of dogs not liking to retrieve woodcock, anyone seen that or know anything about it?

 

[scolopaxmatt]

Blood lines are important but you have to know what to look for. Testing (hunting and show ring to an extent) helps prove the breeders work, with out it you get bad traits that you might see in certain popular breeds now.

If you keep an eye out when you are ready you just might find a rescue purebred. I don't recommend taking in a "washout" as you will inherit someone else's problem.

If I was a nice guy I might offer to take you out with my dogs next fall, but I wouldn't want you to get spoiled hunting over my fancy purebred expensive bird dogs ???? and no you can't have a puppy for free lol.

If you and I are both still active on this website next fall I'll look you up for some Timberdoodle huntin.

 

 

I'd take that invitation.  As for the free puppy, I'd unfortunately have to turn it down.  A friend that breeds and trains drahthaars offered me a finished dog that came back to her from Montana last spring.  Considering the work her own dog does, it damn near broke my heart to say no to that one.  If I hadn't been sure it would eat the cat and the greyhound both, I might have said yes.

 

What breed do you hunt over? 

[scolopaxmatt]

If you really want a rescue shoot me your contact info and the next time a German short hair comes up I'll let you know. I'm in a club and see at least a couple GSP's go up every year. Not my choice for a dog but LOTS of folks love them. To high strung for me.

 

Thanks for the offer.  I tend to agree with you on the GSP being high strung.  There's a breeder real close that raises some but I haven't gone for a look.

 

The right breed is a tough one.  

[Doewhacker]

Ha I bet I know your friend. Is her name Jenny? I'm leaving her last name off on purpose.

That dog, Birco, is a fantastic dog. Wirehaires are a pain in the butt though, whiney, suffer separation anxiety and you never really do know if they might snap and eat you cat.

I have Wirehaired Pointing Griffon's and one German wirehaired pointer who is a pain in the butt lol.

[scolopaxmatt]

That is her!  Ha!

 

I like the looks of griffons.  They're like big airedales.

[Doewhacker]

Hehe us dog people stick together, I know the GSP guy to.

[Doewhacker]

Here are my two Griffs with our haul right before X-Mas

[scolopaxmatt]

I think Birco ended up in Vermont somewhere earning his keep on a preserve.  As far as he's concerned, he's got the life.