Going to be all High Fence.

[Doc]

I have nothing against it either, but I feel the same way NFA-ADK feels. It's just not for me. Would you hunt a zoo if they let you? Maybe the Adirondack Animal Park? They have exotics! Wait, don't answer that!..I forgot where I was for a second!

 

I like the planning and scouting, I like just heading off into the woods looking for deer and deer sign. I enjoy putting in the work for my hunting. I even like the fact that deer can move from my hunting areas. Well, I don't actually like it, but I accept it as part of hunting. I like being able to go to our camp, or a state forest ( that allows it ) and set up a tent and camp for a weekend of hunting. :"The Chase" is part of hunting. I also enjoy 'still' hunting. Slowly walking through the woods, three steps stop and look, two steps stop and look......

 

What, how, and where people hunt is up to them. As long as they do it legal, I really don't care. I prefer to work for my deer/turkey/small game...If I eat tag soup, that's OK with me. Just means I have to think and work harder the next year. But, if they ever take the freedom to hunt where I want, when I want, and with whom I want away... Yes, I would quit hunting.

I have to believe that there is no difference between 1000 acres fenced and 1000 acres not fenced in terms of challenges and difficulties and an even playing field for the animals involved. In fact the same thing may be true of a 500 acre parcel. I suspect that what most people are having difficulty with is the fact that more and more land is being locked up in this way (the old access problem). Or perhaps it is the idea of the guide services that usually go along with fenced operations (I don't want people doing that part of the hunt for me either). Or maybe it is the food source manipulation, or the stocking aspects of some high fence operations. But on a large enough parcel, I think the fence itself vs. fair-chase is really an over-blown controversy.

[Pygmy]

SOS....

So many people are so concerned about what the OTHER guy is doing, that they can't enjoy the sport themselves...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well i wonder if this will ever have anything to do with it?  Hmmm  Thought it may never happen they say!

 

Possible risk for humans from deer with CWD

Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:09 a.m. CDT

A deer searches for food during the cold winter.

UNDATED (WSAU-Wheeler News)   A recent health study could have more Wisconsin deer hunters testing their animals for chronic wasting disease this year. For the first time, scientists say there's a possible health link between humans and the venison they eat from deer infected with the fatal brain disease. Earlier this year, Case Western Reserve researchers said they found signs of CWD infection in a small percentage of mice that ate meat from diseased deer -- and it has the potential to infect the human central nervous system and "peripheral lymphoid tissues." A peer review on that finding is due out soon.

Chronic wasting disease was first discovered in Wisconsin in 2002 -- putting a seismic scare into the state's billion-dollar-a-year deer hunt. Since then, no human got sick from it -- but the state has long urged hunters to test deer from the infected zones before eating the venison. Few do. Only 5,400 deer were tested last year. 6-percent of them turned up positive.

 

[moog5050]

FSW - did I understand you to say that you are charging $3000 for guiding people to hunt in the ADK?  And to top it off, you have an imposed 130" min?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

FSW - did I understand you to say that you are charging $3000 for guiding people to hunt in the ADK?  And to top it off, you have an imposed 130" min?

Not sure where you came up with this little piece of info?  Are there any deer in the ADK's let alone any 130 inch trophy bucks?

[DirtTime]

SOS....

So many people are so concerned about what the OTHER guy is doing, that they can't enjoy the sport themselves...

Exactly!

 

Not sure where you came up with this little piece of info?  Are there any deer in the ADK's let alone any 130 inch trophy bucks?

Dude, I hope with all my heart and soul you were being sarcastic with this one.

You are setting up to make a vested profit to your operation. Instead of being worried about the possible situation, and actually giving a rats ass about deer hunting in NYS in general and the true repercussions and impact this might have, you are setting up to get paid. The passion you seem to have about a serious issue leading to you making money is kind of sad. This post shows you don't really seem to care about hunting as sacred and passed down from generation to generation. You almost come across as wanting this travesty to happen. It's a pretty thin line you have created. So where do you stand? Are you hoping they get this figured out or are you all about the money? 

[moog5050]

Not sure where you came up with this little piece of info? Are there any deer in the ADK's let alone any 130 inch trophy bucks?

Thought that's what you were saying earlier in the thread. Maybe I misunderstood or the comment was tongue in cheek. Are you guiding in NY next year? If u are guiding anywhere in this state free range with a 130" min, I wish you and your clients good luck. They are around but certainly not in sufficient numbers to support a business model. Might be tough for repeat business.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thought that's what you were saying earlier in the thread. Maybe I misunderstood or the comment was tongue in cheek. Are you guiding in NY next year? If u are guiding anywhere in this state free range with a 130" min, I wish you and your clients good luck. They are around but certainly not in sufficient numbers to support a business model. Might be tough for repeat business.

We have plenty. 900 acres of our farm bordered by 109,000 acres of pretty lightly hunted land keeps our farm busy with nice bucks. Tried to get pics of a 120ish buck tonight in the beans while i was rolling alfalfa. Cell phone could not zoom in close enough. Very nice boy for sure!

[DirtTime]

Do you own or have a legal right to allow a guide service on the 109,000 acres? 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Exactly!

 

Dude, I hope with all my heart and soul you were being sarcastic with this one.

You are setting up to make a vested profit to your operation. Instead of being worried about the possible situation, and actually giving a rats ass about deer hunting in NYS in general and the true repercussions and impact this might have, you are setting up to get paid. The passion you seem to have about a serious issue leading to you making money is kind of sad. This post shows you don't really seem to care about hunting as sacred and passed down from generation to generation. You almost come across as wanting this travesty to happen. It's a pretty thin line you have created. So where do you stand? Are you hoping they get this figured out or are you all about the money? 

Dude, This post shows just what you dont know about me. We owned a camp on the edge of the dak's for about 20 years and never seen let alone took a 130 inch buck in those big woods.

 

As far as setting up to make money in my operation...Again shows how clueless your post sounds. I have been making money for almost 20 years now in my business so setting up for a vested profit was many moons ago. I have almost 50 years of hunting under my belt so i dont need someone else to tell me what they think that i may feel about hunting. I do not own hunting camps and property in 3 deer hunting hotspots of the state for bird watching.

 

As far as CWD goes.... There is not a thing i can do about something that is not in my control. Is my life going to change with it or without it?  Not a bit.  Many on here have said i was full of shit saying that high fence was going to play a big part in huntings future and for that i am more than happy to rub their faces in the facts that are now showing of what i knew along time ago.  I am not happy about it but there is nothing i can do about it. I prepared myself for the future and for the naysayers that knew it all and did not believe will now have some thinking to do about their future. Mine, I have that under control.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Do you own or have a legal right to allow a guide service on the 109,000 acres? 

Did i say somewhere that i would guide on the 109,000 acres?

[moog5050]

We have plenty. 900 acres of our farm bordered by 109,000 acres of pretty lightly hunted land keeps our farm busy with nice bucks. Tried to get pics of a 120ish buck tonight in the beans while i was rolling alfalfa. Cell phone could not zoom in close enough. Very nice boy for sure!

 

SOOOOO, are you really guiding this year?  I would be curious to see how many 130"ers your clients take this year.  Please keep us updated.  Seriously, I am curious if you could be successful with such a minimum in NY, in the ADK or elsewhere.

[moog5050]

Did i say somewhere that i would guide on the 109,000 acres?

 

 

It could be implied from post 29, but its not stated clearly.  Not sure why you mention the adk in that post if you only plan to hunt your private land.  Regardless, unless you are hunting those 1 acre pens you mentioned, I think a 130" minimum on free range deer for purposes of guiding would be a huge accomplishment if successful in NY, even on your private land.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

It could be implied from post 29, but its not stated clearly.  Not sure why you mention the adk in that post if you only plan to hunt your private land.  Regardless, unless you are hunting those 1 acre pens you mentioned, I think a 130" minimum on free range deer for purposes of guiding would be a huge accomplishment if successful in NY, even on your private land.

Have plenty on the wall and have hooked up a few buddies to their first P&Y. Not really that tough to hook up with 120 to 130's  After that thing get a little tougher in my area. How many do you think have good success in other states for 3 grand?  1 or 2 out of 10-12 hunters. Thats some pretty good coin right there. Plus you know how us sloppy deer farmers let our disease riddled deer get out of the fences all the time..I must have 250 inch bloodlines running all over my properties.

 

Can you please show me where anything was said or even implied about ADK's in this post #29

 

Starting this fall. Why not? Just shy of 1000 acres of land in a solid block with great agriculture planted fields bordering 109,000 acres of pretty lightly hunted land and some great blood in the genetic pool. Its a win-win 130 inch minimum on bucks, which should be pretty simple and almost unlimited doe tags to be used.. It can be done in Ny like it is in Ohio,Kansas and other to deer states if ya know what your doing and do it right.  You going to be the first?

[moog5050]

"1000 acres of land in a solid block with great agriculture planted fields bordering 109,000 acres of pretty lightly hunted land"

 

That could easily be read to indicate you intend to guide there.  Regardless, and even accepting that you have a wall full of 130s over the last 50 years, DO YOU INTEND TO GUIDE?  Simple question.  You stated you were going to do so, but don't confirm it when asked.  If it was a joke, no need to confirm.  But if you do actually plan to guide with a 130" minimum, please keep us apprised of how many successful clients you have at year's end.

 

I am honestly curious since you say its pretty simple, and that would be a huge accomplishment in NY in my opinion.

Edited July 24, 2015 by moog5050

[moog5050]

Maybe the 109,000 acres is not the adk.  I don't know.  Again, the question is really whether you intend to guide in NY with a 130" minimum and, if so, I would like to know the success after the season. 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

"1000 acres of land in a solid block with great agriculture planted fields bordering 109,000 acres of pretty lightly hunted land"

 

That could easily be read to indicate you intend to guide there.  Regardless, and even accepting that you have a wall full of 130s over the last 50 years, DO YOU INTEND TO GUIDE?  Simple question.  You stated you were going to do so, but don't confirm it when asked.  If it was a joke, no need to confirm.  But if you do actually plan to guide with a 130" minimum, please keep us apprised of how many successful clients you have at year's end.

 

I am honestly curious since you say its pretty simple, and that would be a huge accomplishment in NY in my opinion.

Well i will be sure to throw up some pic's. Along with the 120-130' that are already posted on this site in the harvest thread of bucks taken with both bow and rifle.  Really its not as hard as you make it sound. Is it great..For sure. An Accomplishment?  Not really when you will accept nothing less. Thats where i stand in my hunting. Nothing Less!

 

I see and hunt at least 3 bucks a year that score 120 or better. They dont always get harvested but their home turf is located and they are seen and hunted. Like the 130 plus last year on Letchworth that i saw many times from stand up until the last 3 days before shotgun. Then he shows up at daylight with half of one side of his beam snapped off.  He will be just as big or bigger this year im sure!

[moog5050]

Gotcha - your not guiding.  Good luck with the hunting.  Killing and seeing a 120-130 is great, but guiding with a 130" min in NY is a whole different story.  Yes - I think it would be hard to be a successful guide in NY with the bar set that high.  We also hunt and see bucks 130" or better every year.  That doesn't mean I could be a successful guide with a 130" minimum - unless you define success as getting a few non-repeat clients.  You have been at it much longer than me with much more land to hunt so who knows.

 

Anyways, I hope you get that 130 in Letchworth. 

 

 

[dbHunterNY]

Here's what I think, not that FourSeasons cares....

 

NY is a long ways away from being Ohio, Kansas, and other destination states.  I know first hand that the mentality is simply different when it comes to harvest goals and antlers.  Even out of state hunters with lower expectations (whom I know at least a dozen that have gone to Ohio alone) pass deer they'd never pass here regardless of where in the state of NY.

 

It's possible that younger deer in NY reach that minimum 130", but I'd bet a vast majority are the dominant buck in the area with at least some age even if 3.5 years old.  A buck like that will most likely have a home range of 600+ acres.  Unless, his neighbors with a blocked management area or co-op I could see maybe 3-4 bucks tops visiting your farm.  This is assuming he's got great or managed habitat that has a large quantity and separation of bedding cover so that multiple deer groups can live on his property without butting heads.  After they take a buck or 4, I wouldn't expect there are many 130" bucks at the border just waiting to claim his turf.  that puts him at $12-15k a year without overhead costs.  Given his situation I'm not sure he'd be interested and rather save the hunting for friends and family.

 

(Haven't finished the post but I just noticed his last one.)

 

[moog5050]

DB - you articulated with greater explanation why I think a guide service in NY with a 130" minimum cannot be successful.  In short, we simply don't have enough 130" plus deer to support it as an ongoing venture.  I would be happy to be proven wrong.  Maybe some day.

 

BTW - if NY did have that many 130'ers roaming around like the other states mentioned, high fence hunting would be even less desirable to most.

Edited July 24, 2015 by moog5050

[BizCT]

Moog - You are missing FSW's crucial comment of:

 

"Plus you know how us sloppy deer farmers let our disease riddled deer get out of the fences all the time. I must have 250 inch bloodlines running all over my properties."

 

He is implying that some of his penned deer "escaped", but will still be on his hunting property.

 

Regardless, 130" minimum will not equate to many successful clients in New York. For $3K on a rifle hunt, I would expect high odds at getting a shot at something decent. Also, I would assume that $3K includes nice accommodations, 3 good meals a day, etc.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Four Season Whitetail's]

DB - you articulated with greater explanation why I think a guide service in NY with a 130" minimum cannot be successful.  In short, we simply don't have enough 130" plus deer to support it as an ongoing venture.  I would be happy to be proven wrong.  Maybe some day.

 

BTW - if NY did have that many 130'ers roaming around like the other states mentioned, high fence hunting would be even less desirable to most.

I really hope you do not believe your own way of thinking. About every state that tops the record books with P&Y and B&C bucks are also tops in numbers of animals taken behind fence.You will have a hard time finding any antlered bucks in the states of Oh,Ill,Kansas,Iowa by the time Dec 1st rolls around.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Moog - You are missing FSW's crucial comment of:

 

"Plus you know how us sloppy deer farmers let our disease riddled deer get out of the fences all the time. I must have 250 inch bloodlines running all over my properties."

 

He is implying that some of his penned deer "escaped", but will still be on his hunting property.

 

Regardless, 130" minimum will not equate to many successful clients in New York. For $3K on a rifle hunt, I would expect high odds at getting a shot at something decent. Also, I would assume that $3K includes nice accommodations, 3 good meals a day, etc.

Ahhh .Ding,Ding,Ding...Now lets not forget about the part where i let the 130-140 inch bucks out of the pens only to have them run across a field to the first and only set of woods. We all know who will be sitting in a ladder stand along the edge of that woodlot when the buck comes zipping across..The $3000 dollar paying hunter of course. If he scores great..If he misses..No big deal, He had his chance,i still get paid and another great pedigreed buck runs in my hunting area. Win-Win all the way around!

[wdswtr]

I really hope you do not believe your own way of thinking. About every state that tops the record books with P&Y and B&C bucks are also tops in numbers of animals taken behind fence.You will have a hard time finding any antlered bucks in the states of Oh,Ill,Kansas,Iowa by the time Dec 1st rolls around.

 

You should consider having your well water tested for hallucinogens.

[wdswtr]

Ahhh .Ding,Ding,Ding...Now lets not forget about the part where i let the 130-140 inch bucks out of the pens only to have them run across a field to the first and only set of woods. We all know who will be sitting in a ladder stand along the edge of that woodlot when the buck comes zipping across..The $3000 dollar paying hunter of course. If he scores great..If he misses..No big deal, He had his chance,i still get paid and another great pedigreed buck runs in my hunting area. Win-Win all the way around!

 

And how long will this so called pedigreed buck survive without being hand fed?