Do you reload?

[shawnhu]

The brass I used to produce the last group measured 2.033" and weighed 174.0gr with spent primer.

228.5 gr with water.

This is R-P Brass, unsized.

Unfortunately, I ran the Herter's(early pressure signs) through the die when I got home after the range.

MV is 3181 FPS from a 85gr Sierra GK HPBT.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

The brass I used to produce the last group measured 2.033" and weighed 174.0gr with spent primer.

228.5 gr with water.

This is R-P Brass, unsized.

Unfortunately, I ran the Herter's(early pressure signs) through the die when I got home after the range.

MV is 3181 FPS from a 85gr Sierra GK HPBT.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

What is the Cartridge Over All Length? I need that to determine available case capacity of the loaded cartridge.

 

This is .243 right?

Edited March 11, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

What is the Cartridge Over All Length? I need that to determine available case capacity of the loaded cartridge.

This is .243 right?

Yes, .243 Win.

COAL is 2.590", 0.01 off lands.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[shawnhu]

According to this chart, my 20" barrel should have these nodes when the bullet leaves these barrel times.

If I did my load development correctly, I'm at a charge of IMR 4350 with 43.6 grs. Hopefully, that puts me in one of those nodes.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

I redid my pressure/ladder test, and there wasn't any noticeable pressure until my last shot at 44.4 gr of Varget over a 70gr pill.

Last time I tried to shoot this string, I immediately got pressure at 42.8 gr.

The difference was in the brass.

Then I went and shot these two groups.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Quickload predicted 3155fps @ 56863psi for 43.6gr IMR 4350 for 24" barrel, pretty close to your actual results 

 

 3087fps for 22" barrel.

 

If you are getting 3180fps in a 22" barrel that indicates pressure in the 63K range.

[shawnhu]

Quickload predicted 3155fps @ 56863psi for 43.6gr IMR 4350 for 24" barrel, pretty close to your actual results

3087fps for 22" barrel.

If you are getting 3180fps in a 22" barrel that indicates pressure in the 63K range.

I have a 20" barrel.

Would that put me in the 70k+ range? Seems dangerous.

What's my barrel time look like for a 20"?

Edited March 11, 2016 by shawnhu

[wildcat junkie]

I have a 20" barrel.

Would that put me in the 70k+ range? Seems dangerous.

What's my barrel time look like for a 20"?

Quickload suggests about 67K. You are gettung into the danger zone. This is probably why the softer Herters brass exhibited pressure signs. Your load seems to be "on the edge" & the harder RP brass wasn't yet pushed to the point of deformation while the Herters brass gave in.

 

I ran a prediction W/20" barrel & here are some other powders that will yield better predicted Mv @ 63K max pressure.

 

Cartridge          : .243 Win.

Bullet             : .243, 85, Sierra HPBT 1530

Useable Case Capaci: 49.067 grain H2O = 3.186 cm³

Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.590 inch = 65.79 mm

Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

 

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested

loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand

that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet

and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.

USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

 

140 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

 

Powder type          Filling Ratio       Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time

                                      %                Grains    Gramm   fps       %            psi          psi       ms

---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------

Norma MRP                          106.0     50.0     3.24    3233       98.3       63000   14689   0.965  Near Max

Alliant Reloder-17                   95.5     45.3     2.94    3211     100.0       63000   13368   0.960  Near Max

IMR 7828 SSC                      106.1     49.3     3.19    3201      95.4        63000   14294   0.953  Near Max

Vihtavuori N560                    107.0     49.5     3.20    3190       94.6       61389   14620   0.973  Near Max

Hodgdon H414                        94.7     45.3    2.93    3167        98.3       63000   13546   0.968  Near Max

Winchester 760                       94.7     45.3    2.93    3167        98.3       63000   13546   0.968  Near Max

Ramshot Hunter                    100.1     46.8    3.03    3166        98.9       63000   13494   0.967  Near Max

Alliant Reloder-22                  107.0     48.9    3.17    3165        96.5       60746   14206   0.982  Near Max

Accurate MAGPRO                107.0     51.5    3.33    3163        92.8       61009   14499   0.983  Near Max

Alliant Reloder-19                  104.6     47.3    3.07    3161        96.8       63000   13677   0.962   Near Max

 

Given that RL-17 usually runs 2-3gr behind predicted Mv/pressure, a 100% load density charge would probably equal the Mv predicted above & that might be a good option if you decide to try another powder. I am not the only one observing this scenario & it is common practice to load RL-17 a few grains over the QL suggestions.

 

Then of course Norma MRP shows promise too and it would be difficult to over charge MRP.

Edited March 11, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

Quickload suggests about 67K. You are gettung into the danger zone. This is probably why the softer Herters brass exhibited pressure signs. Your load seems to be "on the edge" & the harder RP brass wasn't yet pushed to the point of deformation while the Herters brass gave in.

I ran a prediction W/20" barrel & here are some other powders that will yield better predicted Mv @ 63K max pressure.

Cartridge : .243 Win.

Bullet : .243, 85, Sierra HPBT 1530

Useable Case Capaci: 49.067 grain H2O = 3.186 cm³

Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.590 inch = 65.79 mm

Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested

loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand

that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet

and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.

USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

140 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time

% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms

--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Norma MRP 106.0 50.0 3.24 3233 98.3 63000 14689 0.965 Near Max

Alliant Reloder-17 95.5 45.3 2.94 3211 100.0 63000 13368 0.960 Near Max

IMR 7828 SSC 106.1 49.3 3.19 3201 95.4 63000 14294 0.953 Near Max

Vihtavuori N560 107.0 49.5 3.20 3190 94.6 61389 14620 0.973 Near Max

Hodgdon H414 94.7 45.3 2.93 3167 98.3 63000 13546 0.968 Near Max

Winchester 760 94.7 45.3 2.93 3167 98.3 63000 13546 0.968 Near Max

Ramshot Hunter 100.1 46.8 3.03 3166 98.9 63000 13494 0.967 Near Max

Alliant Reloder-22 107.0 48.9 3.17 3165 96.5 60746 14206 0.982 Near Max

Accurate MAGPRO 107.0 51.5 3.33 3163 92.8 61009 14499 0.983 Near Max

Alliant Reloder-19 104.6 47.3 3.07 3161 96.8 63000 13677 0.962 Near Max

Given that RL-17 usually runs 2-3gr behind predicted Mv/pressure, a 100% load density charge would probably equal the Mv predicted above & that might be a good option if you decide to try another powder. I am not the only one observing this scenario & it is common practice to load RL-17 a few grains over the QL suggestions.

Then of course Norma MRP shows promise too and it would be difficult to over charge MRP.

Boy, I generally don't recall seeing these powders listed as available from my local shop. Can't believe 4064 isn't on the list.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

Boy, I generally don't recall seeing these powders listed as available from my local shop. Can't believe 4064 isn't on the list.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

4064 was on the list, just way down.

 

RL-17 is gaining popularity so most Gun Shops are beginning to stock it. Problem is, it is getting so popular, that stock runs out quickly.

 

RL-17 was designed for the "Short Magnums" but it also works extremely well in edium case capacity cartridges W/medium (for caliber) weight bullets. IMO, you should try to locate some & give it a try.

 

I use it for 8X57IS W/200gr bullets, 7mm-08 W/140gr bullets & 30/40 Krag W/160gr bullets. I get Mvs of 2730, 2912 & 2500fps respectively. In the Krag, I am going to boost the charge to achieve about 2650fps which will match the 308 Marlin Express that is loaded for lever actions @ similar chamber pressure to the Krag. I will be using the Hornady FTX buklet designed for that cartridge as it has a heavier jacket than the bullet I currently use. I used the 160gr FTX designed for the 30/30 last year, but even @ 120yds, I was exceeding the design envelope of that particular bullet & it fragmented on bone. It did drop the buck in its tracks, but a heavy shoulder bone hit might not have resulted in the same effect.

Edited March 11, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

4064 was on the list, just way down.

RL-17 is gaining popularity so most Gun Shops are beginning to stock it. Problem is, it is getting so popular, that stock runs out quickly.

RL-17 was designed for the "Short Magnums" but it also works extremely well in edium case capacity cartridges W/medium (for caliber) weight bullets. IMO, you should try to locate some & give it a try.

I use it for 8X57IS W/200gr bullets, 7mm-08 W/140gr bullets & 30/40 Krag W/160gr bullets. I get Mvs of 2730, 2912 & 2500fps respectively. In the Krag, I am going to boost the charge to achieve about 2650fps which will match the 308 Marlin Express that is loaded for lever actions @ similar chamber pressure to the Krag. I will be using the Hornady FTX buklet designed for that cartridge as it has a heavier jacket than the bullet I currently use. I used the 160gr FTX designed for the 30/30 last year, but even @ 120yds, I was exceeding the design envelope of that particular bullet & it fragmented on bone. It did drop the buck in its tracks, but a heavy shoulder bone hit might no have resulted in the same effect.

I'll ask about the RL17 and 19 when in at the shop.

Did the IMR4350 load indicate barrel time?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[shawnhu]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/252317058910?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11060.m43.l1123%2F7%3Feuid%3D6668ba4890c54e288efb7655a7b3f6a4%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewItem%2526item%253D252317058910%2526ssPageName%253DADME%253AB%253ABOC%253AUS%253A1123%26srcrot%3De11060.m43.l1123%26rvr_id%3D0&_mwBanner=1

Not a bad price.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Edited March 11, 2016 by shawnhu

[Borngeechee]

I have the lyman 49th edition reloading manual. Is there another book, not necessarily a manual on reloading that you would suggest?

Geechee born and Geechee bred

[shawnhu]

I have the lyman 49th edition reloading manual. Is there another book, not necessarily a manual on reloading that you would suggest?

Geechee born and Geechee bred

My opinion differs from popular consensus, but I read from all the sources I intend to shoot, for example, I shoot Sierra, Nosler, Hornady so I read their data, as well as IMR and H data.

As for best practices and techniques, I don't really limit myself. I always try to speak with experienced shooters and reloaders first. They are, IMO, the best source to unbiased and real world situations. I have spoken to at least 2 veteran reloaders on his site alone. I've also spoken to all three bullet manufacturers as well as powder vendors.

Then there's the many documents that's written on the Internet. Some of them being Ladder, OCW, OBT, as well as others. It's a world of knowledge, and you can put as little, or as much as you want in it. Set a goal, and put in the time to achieve it.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

I have the lyman 49th edition reloading manual. Is there another book, not necessarily a manual on reloading that you would suggest?

Geechee born and Geechee bred

Generally speaking, the most relevant reloading manuals are published by either the bullet or the powder manufacturers. Which way you choose to go is up to you. You need a manual that has specific data for both the bullet & powder you are using for your particular cartridge.

 

Since I started out using Nosler Bullets, I bought a Nosler manual (#4) & purchased a 2nd later edition of the Nosler manual (5th edition) that had additional bullets & data for newly released cartridges. The Nosler manuals have good advise on safety practices, but if they don't have data for the particular bullet you are using, they would be of little use for you.

Edited March 12, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[Borngeechee]

My opinion differs from popular consensus, but I read from all the sources I intend to shoot, for example, I shoot Sierra, Nosler, Hornady so I read their data, as well as IMR and H data.

As for best practices and techniques, I don't really limit myself. I always try to speak with experienced shooters and reloaders first. They are, IMO, the best source to unbiased and real world situations. I have spoken to at least 2 veteran reloaders on his site alone. I've also spoken to all three bullet manufacturers as well as powder vendors.

Then there's the many documents that's written on the Internet. Some of them being Ladder, OCW, OBT, as well as others. It's a world of knowledge, and you can put as little, or as much as you want in it. Set a goal, and put in the time to achieve it.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Generally speaking, the most relevant reloading manuals are published by either the bullet or the powder manufacturers. Which way you choose to go is up to you. You need a manual that has specific data for both the bullet & powder you are using for your particular cartridge.

Since I started out using Nosler Bullets, I bought a Nosler manual (#4) & purchased a 2nd later edition of the Nosler manual (5th edition) that had additional bullets & data for newly released cartridges. The Nosler manuals have good advise on safety practices, but if they don't have data for the particular bullet you are using, they would be of little use for you.

You guys definitely make sense. Looks like a have a couple of manuals to order. No such thing as too much info

Geechee born and Geechee bred

[shawnhu]

You guys definitely make sense. Looks like a have a couple of manuals to order. No such thing as too much info

Geechee born and Geechee bred

Or order that QuickLOAD.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

You guys definitely make sense. Looks like a have a couple of manuals to order. No such thing as too much info

Geechee born and Geechee bred

 

 

Or order that QuickLOAD.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Get a Chronograph, preferably one that that reads out Standard deviation.

[shawnhu]

Get a Chronograph, preferably one that that reads out Standard deviation.

But don't get the shooting chrony's. Their UI is very primitive. You also get a lot of errors. Each error is a wasted round, or even worse, a wasted string of shots in a ladder test.

I'd look at getting one that is bluetooth and connects to your phone, or something like he magneto speed.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

But don't get the shooting chrony's. Their UI is very primitive. You also get a lot of errors. Each error is a wasted round, or even worse, a wasted string of shots in a ladder test.

I'd look at getting one that is bluetooth and connects to your phone, or something like he magneto speed.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

I have a Pact. It doesn't "integrate" W/anything but it gives me the data I need.

[airedale]

When it comes to reloading I do not think you can ever have too much information. The Lyman 49 manual you have is a very good one, I started out with a Lyman 43 myself and have several other Lyman editions including the 49 that you have. The reason I favor Lyman manuals is they are not a bullet or powder  manufacturer themselves, so when they develop their load data they are not so to say restricted to using their own brand. They use a good cross section of all the manufacturers bullets so one has a bit more to choose from. I think if a person was going to have just one manual the Lyman would be a good choice.

 

Now that being said the reloading hobby has a way of taking hold of you and can kind of become obsessive in the search for perfection. And of course the way one gains more info about about a wider selection of bullets and powder is to obtain more manuals. For me personally over the long period of time I have been at this I have ended getting manuals from most of the major players and have picked up gems of useful information from them all.

 

Today you have these computer program that WJ and Shawn are using that reveal just about all there is to know. So the sky is the limit and if one has a bad case the reloading bug you certainly have plenty of options.

 

Al

Edited March 12, 2016 by airedale

[shawnhu]

My factory rifle was quite a bit of a disappointment in the accuracy department when I first shot it with factory ammo.

After a long journey of reading, buying, learning, then rinse and repeat, it's finally coming together. I've been able to get this same bullet to do similar groups on three separate occasions, even under different recipes. Feels good when it comes together, but frustrating when it doesn't. That's reloading!

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[dbHunterNY]

anyone notice how temperature stabile powders are?  for example are there powders that you don't want to work up loads with during the summer to shoot them during late November when it's freezing?

[dbHunterNY]

Quickload would definitely do me in being an engineer.  it'd turn it into an addiction probably where I'd never be satisfied.

[shawnhu]

anyone notice how temperature stabile powders are? for example are there powders that you don't want to work up loads with during the summer to shoot them during late November when it's freezing?

I've been told that the fps change from sub freezing to near 100* F doesn't shift much. This is from someone that shoots competition at 1500 yards with 338 LM. I think he said under 30 fps difference.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

anyone notice how temperature stabile powders are?  for example are there powders that you don't want to work up loads with during the summer to shoot them during late November when it's freezing?

Some powders are are temperature stable than others.