Just learned that .223 is legal

[Buckmaster7600]

So you did a forensic examination? 

I guess the fact that the wound Channel created by a slug is much larger then your little .223 bullet never crossed your mind did it  

I don't have to do a "forensic exam" when a deer is running and is shot and all body movement stops "i.e. The death slide" that shows that the central nervous system was disrupted and has absolutely nothing to do with the size of the wound. Notice when he is walking up to it and it starts picking it's head up? It wasn't like the deer died instantly.

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[jjb4900]

am I the only one who pictures a 15 year old kid sitting in front of the computer posting some of this stuff?????

[LJC]

12 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I don't have to do a "forensic exam" when a deer is running and is shot and all body movement stops "i.e. The death slide" that shows that the central nervous system was disrupted and has absolutely nothing to do with the size of the wound. Notice when he is walking up to it and it starts picking it's head up? It wasn't like the deer died instantly.

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If you look doctor buckmaster the shot is low of the spin  not in the spin but slugs break apart and it could of hit part of the spin  with .223 you would have to be right on the money your margin of error is not  near  as big with such a small bullet . 

[Buckmaster7600]

If you look doctor buckmaster the shot is low of the spin  not in the spin but slugs break apart and it could of hit part of the spin  with .223 you would have to be right on the money your margin of error is not  near  as big with such a small bullet . 

Well Doctor moron If the impact is low of the spine it most likely struck rib. If rib is hit high enough the shock of the impact will go into the spinal cord and disrupt central nervous system. With your experience I can't believe you are having such a hard time understanding this.


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[LJC]

7 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

Well Doctor moron If the impact is low of the spine it most likely struck rib. If rib is hit high enough the shock of the impact will go into the spinal cord and disrupt central nervous system. With your experience I can't believe you are having such a hard time understanding this.


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So you think a .223   has as much stopping power as a 12ga slug at close range that was the point of this . 

Good luck with that use your AR then for deer lol  you know it all what can I tell you 

Edited September 19, 2016 by LJC

[LJC]

21 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

Well Doctor moron If the impact is low of the spine it most likely struck rib. If rib is hit high enough the shock of the impact will go into the spinal cord and disrupt central nervous system. With your experience I can't believe you are having such a hard time understanding this.


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Ok sparky  just to make a point This one  definitely  was know spin shot notice the blood tell me a .223 is going to make blood lose that fast on a deer lol  

Edited September 19, 2016 by LJC

[Larry]

I have killed deer with a 22-250 out to 200yds. Those deer were killed on a nuisance permit and all head shots. I used the 22-250 instead of my 444 or 308 because I did not want 100% pass though or having rounds bounce off the ground. I also didn’t lose a deer but I had a good rest and I know how to shoot. I waited for the perfect shot or I didn’t shoot. That being said I chose that gun for a specific job. There are too many better calibers out there to deer hunt with then to use a 223 or a 22-250. They will both kill deer but you have little room for error.

To the guy who said you have to damage the nerves system that’s not what kills deer it’s getting blood pressure to “0”. Whether that’s by cutting off signals from the brain or massive organ damage the goal is the same get the blood pressure to 0.  

[Buckmaster7600]

So you think a .223   has as much stopping power as a 12ga slug at close range that was the point of this . 

Good luck with that use your AR then for deer lol  you know it all what can I tell you 

I know that stopping power doesn't exist. It's not a real thing.

I'm done arguing with you, you are way to intelligent and knowledgeable for me to try to sway your opinion.

I will end with this I have killed a whole bunch of deer with shotguns "I was stationed down south in states that give tags by the arm length and allow baiting. Shotguns kill deer dead but can't compare in lights out "killing power" to any center fire cartridge over 2500fps over .25" diameter.

I was an infantry marine for 8years with 4 combat deployments as well as 3 years as a primary marksmanship instructor. I have literally shot truck loads of .556 ammo. I have witnessed first hand the "killing power" of the 223 on critters.

The deer and hogs I have shot with the 223 all died pretty quickly. Like I said in a earlier post I was never overly impressed with the terminal performance but my ar that I was using then has a 14 1/2" barrel and is leaving a few hundred fps in velocity on the table. I'm sure a normal 20-22" barrel would have been a better more efficient killer.

Instant incapacitation is only achievable one way and that's by the central nervous system of a target being disrupted by direct hit or shock.

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[jjb4900]

16 minutes ago, LJC said:

Ok sparky  just to make a point This one  definitely  was know spin shot notice the blood tell me a .223 is going to make blood lose that fast on a deer lol  

spin shots and blood lose will get them every time...no what I mean?

[LJC]

25 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

I know that stopping power doesn't exist. It's not a real thing.

I'm done arguing with you, you are way to intelligent and knowledgeable for me to try to sway your opinion.

I will end with this I have killed a whole bunch of deer with shotguns "I was stationed down south in states that give tags by the arm length and allow baiting. Shotguns kill deer dead but can't compare in lights out "killing power" to any center fire cartridge over 2500fps over .25" diameter.

I was an infantry marine for 8years with 4 combat deployments as well as 3 years as a primary marksmanship instructor. I have literally shot truck loads of .556 ammo. I have witnessed first hand the "killing power" of the 223 on critters with 4 legs more than I wish to remember with 2.

The deer and hogs I have shot with the 223 all died pretty quickly. Like I said in a earlier post I was never overly impressed with the terminal performance but my ar that I was using then has a 14 1/2" barrel and is leaving a few hundred fps in velocity on the table. I'm sure a normal 20-22" barrel would have been a better more efficient killer.


Instant incapacitation is only achievable one way and that's by the central nervous system of a target being disrupted by direct hit or shock.

Ok calm down aready 

I was talking about close range shots with

A shotgun anyways 




 

 

 

 

[LJC]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

Well Doctor moron If the impact is low of the spine it most likely struck rib. If rib is hit high enough the shock of the impact will go into the spinal cord and disrupt central nervous system. With your experience I can't believe you are having such a hard time understanding this.


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Check this out tell me what you think 

Now go try find a balistic gel test of a .223 at close range that does damage like that . I watched a few and nothing comes close to this at close range 

That's all I'm saying

Don't freak out on me body  

 

 

[LJC]

37 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:

spin shots and blood lose will get them every time...no what I mean?

Yes 

[shawnhu]

Yeah, that was at LJC.

Anyway, a last bit of data: A rifled shotgun slug from a 12 gauge has at 75 yards about the same energy as a 223 at the same distance because the slug bleeds energy at an insane rate due to its huge frontal area. At 100 yards the 223 can actually carry with it more energy than that same slug.

Check this out tell me what you think 

Now go try find a balistic gel test of a .223 at close range that does damage like that . I watched a few and nothing comes close to this at close range 

That's all I'm saying

Don't freak out on me body  

 

 

No one is disputing the energy a slug carries at "close range". You seem to be arguing with yourself. Either that, or you simply missed the point that a .223 has superior external ballistics past 75 yards compared to a 12ga slug.

[LJC]

1 hour ago, shawnhu said:

 

 

No one is disputing the energy a slug carries at "close range". You seem to be arguing with yourself. Either that, or you simply missed the point that a .223 has superior external ballistics past 75 yards compared to a 12ga slug.

 

 

 

Yes your right  kinda of right depends I was talking about less then 75 yards anyway   but the larger slug will still make a bigger whole resulting in a faster kill even past 75 yards it just will . The difference at even 100 yards in ft ib is negligible

At 100  a 12ga 2 1/2 slug has 850/ 900 ft ib 

.223 has 950 ft ib at 100 yards 

A 3 inch slug has over 

1050 ft ib 

The difference is the slug is going to make a  .75 inch diameter hole in your deer and the little .223 is going to make alot smaller .  Hole .223 

Peniteration not going to make difference they both will go in far enough at 100 yards 

Bigger hole = faster death

Edited September 20, 2016 by LJC

[chrisw]

Posts #84 and #87 just made my day... Just saying.

[LJC]

2 hours ago, LJC said:

Ok sparky  just to make a point This one  definitely  was know spine  shot notice the blood tell me a .223 is going to make blood lose that fast on a deer lol  

 

[LJC]

4 hours ago, LJC said:

If you look doctor buckmaster the shot is low of the spine  not in the spine but slugs break apart and it could of hit part of the spine  with .223 you would have to be right on the money your margin of error is not  near  as big with such a small bullet . 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If we want to get something positive out of this thread, can someone please post a tutorial on how to use the quote function?

[jjb4900]

18 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

If we want to get something positive out of this thread, can someone please post a tutorial on how to use the quote function?

no!! this is too much fun.

[Jaeger]

For a very long time now the Description of Legal Hunting Implements for deer hunting has been "any centerfire rifle".

Bothers me that no one actually reads the regs. anymore, we all did it and looked forward to it while growing up in the 70's and 80's.  Actually challenged each other to pick out changes from prior years, but that's another story/topic.  The confusion about both bow/muzz tags, both and either seasons come to mind, been that way for a very long time.

Back to the Topic.  Gentlemen, and ladies, that includes .22 hornet and all the centerfire .20 and .17 cal.s out there.

It's up to you to decide if you're skilled enough to use 'em and if you think it's fair or ethical to try.  If you're good enough, great.  If your doing it as a stunt or to see if it just can be done, not so much.

[shawnhu]

For a very long time now the Description of Legal Hunting Implements for deer hunting has been "any centerfire rifle".

Bothers me that no one actually reads the regs. anymore, we all did it and looked forward to it while growing up in the 70's and 80's.  Actually challenged each other to pick out changes from prior years, but that's another story/topic.  The confusion about both bow/muzz tags, both and either seasons come to mind, been that way for a very long time.

Back to the Topic.  Gentlemen, and ladies, that includes .22 hornet and all the centerfire .20 and .17 cal.s out there.

It's up to you to decide if you're skilled enough to use 'em and if you think it's fair or ethical to try.  If you're good enough, great.  If your doing it as a stunt or to see if it just can be done, not so much.

It's actually not any center fire rifle. It's any center fire rifle .22 and larger.

[Jaeger]

6 minutes ago, shawnhu said:

It's actually not any center fire rifle. It's any center fire rifle .22 and larger.

With all due respect shawnhu, where did you see that written?

I pulled the "any centerfire rifle" quote from the DEC implement description website page.

I am now reading the "Big Game Boundary Descriptions/Legal Implements" page 24 of the printed regs. booklet and it also says, in the black box bottom right "Implement Descriptions for Big Game Hunting".  It reads "Rifle-any centerfire rifle".  

I see no where in either the on line regs. or printed booklet that it reads "any center fire rifle .22 and larger".  If you can point it out to us, I stand corrected and better informed.  

[Larry]

Shawnhu you need to learn something about ballistics and how things work. First most deer killed in NY are killed at less than 100yrds with a gun. Next there is more to killing a deer then how fast and how many energy foot pounds the bullet has. There is mass, momentum, diameter and bullet design and construction that has to be a counted for. A 12ga full bore slug weighs 437.5grs a 22cal bullet weighs 60gr the 12ga weighs over 7 times more than the 22cal bullet. The slug has three times the dia. As the .224 bullet and is made of soft lead and will expand at lower velocity and hold together you can only make the jacket on a.224 bullet so thick before it will starts to act like a fmj. Then there’s the momentum the slug has over ten times the momentum then the 22cal bullet. The shear mass of the 12ga slug makes it much better than a .224 bullet and when you add rifled barrel and a sabot it can make the 12ga better out to 200yds. That’s not saying a 223 won’t kill deer but if I had to choose between the 2 I would go with the 12ga every time.

[shawnhu]

For a very long time now the Description of Legal Hunting Implements for deer hunting has been "any centerfire rifle".

Bothers me that no one actually reads the regs. anymore, we all did it and looked forward to it while growing up in the 70's and 80's.  Actually challenged each other to pick out changes from prior years, but that's another story/topic.  The confusion about both bow/muzz tags, both and either seasons come to mind, been that way for a very long time.

Back to the Topic.  Gentlemen, and ladies, that includes .22 hornet and all the centerfire .20 and .17 cal.s out there.

It's up to you to decide if you're skilled enough to use 'em and if you think it's fair or ethical to try.  If you're good enough, great.  If your doing it as a stunt or to see if it just can be done, not so much.

I tried to find where I've read these regs, but was unable to do so. Everything I've looked up points to any center fire like you've stated. I'm either getting senile or its buried somewhere that I don't care to spend more than 15 minutes looking into.

[shawnhu]

Shawnhu you need to learn something about ballistics and how things work. First most deer killed in NY are killed at less than 100yrds with a gun. Next there is more to killing a deer then how fast and how many energy foot pounds the bullet has. There is mass, momentum, diameter and bullet design and construction that has to be a counted for. A 12ga full bore slug weighs 437.5grs a 22cal bullet weighs 60gr the 12ga weighs over 7 times more than the 22cal bullet. The slug has three times the dia. As the .224 bullet and is made of soft lead and will expand at lower velocity and hold together you can only make the jacket on a.224 bullet so thick before it will starts to act like a fmj. Then there’s the momentum the slug has over ten times the momentum then the 22cal bullet. The shear mass of the 12ga slug makes it much better than a .224 bullet and when you add rifled barrel and a sabot it can make the 12ga better out to 200yds. That’s not saying a 223 won’t kill deer but if I had to choose between the 2 I would go with the 12ga every time.

Larry, before you go attacking me on learning a thing or two, do you know what external ballistics is? How about terminal ballistics? Difference between the two?