Crowd gathers in New Orleans to watch statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee being removed

[EspressoBuzz]

Growalot, the men you speak of may well have been washed over by the wave created by their politicians but the heads of state are the ones who voted for secession because of the desire to maintain slavery. I have an alternate reading suggestion for you one that will surely bring down hate and anger on me but here goes. Read the sermons given by pastors of the time before and during the Civil War and see how (southern) Christianity perpetuated the myth that the negro was incapable of living outside of the confines of slavery and how it was gods work.

Allusions to european slavery which was perpetuated against people of all colors and not just black people was not the same as in America. When the south lost the war many who fled the country because of the war went to Brasil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederados) a country which held onto slavery for another two decades.

I ran a digital Imaging company in the late 90's and early 2000's which scanned photos, documents and historical papers for many museums and historical societies. I have read personal papers from men & women on both sides of the conflict. Slavery may well not have been the reason the lowest rank may have been fighting for in their minds but it was the reason in their commanders minds.

None of us has ever been held in slavery but for us as a people to not imagine it 10 times worst than any idea we have in mind is to belittle the pain, horror and death it caused not just to the Negro but to the country as a whole.

[growalot]

There is no reason for me to bring hate and anger down on you..hmmm assumptions.

I have never belittled what slavery was,any more then I would the holocaust. That said I will not if not all day goes surrounding both. really..I don't even know what that last sentence is One more time...That said, I will not ignore all things surrounding both. Now you touched on several things I said:

1) what leaders said.....I did say power mongering,corruption

2)  sermons...Well now I really don't need to repeat my position on organized religion, and it's destructive powers

3) Running to Brazil...I never denied it was about money and power..but let's not forget human depravity in general..that's why woman/child slavery and the sex trade thrive today around the world today.

Now let's delve into the emancipation proclamation that DID NOT free all slaves. In fact IT DID NOT OUT LAW SLAVERY,fact. It only freed slaves in states that had the nerve to go against the federal government and seceed. It only went  after those  slave owners in the secession states, lands and holdings. It Do NOT make the slaves citizens nor give them rights other then not to be owned. There were many states holding slaves legally more many years after. All facts that are in black and white,as it were. We can not remember just parts of history. We need to view all events to make the picture whole. Ask yourself this of the Northern politicians were as against slavery as the Southern states were for it. Why did the above occur? They won they had the power.... so think on that.

Oh a note to the European slaves..not sure what a difference it makes in shade skin color,they didn't have black lives matter back then. Though I believe and will say I may be slightly off on this..thinking not,but here goes. The reason the trade in slaves was primarily African in nature was. The various Waring tribes were profiting from selling their captors. I do not believe the southern Americans were going there randomly herding black humans like wild horses and shipping them off. It was Africans bartering Africans. If they weren't doing so with Americans,you can sure bet they would and did with other countrys.

Edited May 21, 2017 by growalot

[Rattler]

If nothing else, it does give me hope that one day, all memorials to the elected leftists we see destroying freedom and liberty for ALL the people today, will be torn down so their legacies will also be banished from the history books.

[growalot]

BTW.. IT'S SECESSION,SECEDE and I had to type these out letter space letter...then go back and delete the spaces before the kindle would except it..Wth

[EspressoBuzz]

I didn't mean you bringing hate down because i brought religion into it i meant in general people get nasty when their beliefs are challenged. I think most people who have taken a good look at the civil war and it's reasons would agree that it wasn't going to be settled without a war. Once war was started all weapons came to bear and the emancipation was another weapon of war but specific to that war.

Once again, these monuments to the losing side of the civil war are not being destroyed nor is their legacy being banished from the history books. Many are going to museums, and private home museums. In museums their story can be more fully delved into and the history preserved.

[Rattler]

The Confederate states didn't start the war.  They simply left the Union to be independent.  The Union started the aggression in the civil war.  The President could not accept the southern states leaving the Union.  I believe if the war had not been fought, the south would've eventually realized they could not make it work and would've come back voluntarily under whatever terms were stipulated.  

I always felt it was wrong for the north to institute the slash and burn policy that was used as they marched through the south during the war.  That was not necessary and seem to be punitive.

BTW, the south doesn't believe they lost the civil war, because for them, it's still going on.

P.S.  I know people will say the south started to shooting at Ft Sumpter, but the history books are written by the winners.  The South wanted all Union soldiers out of their country and the Union would not leave.  There was Union aggression in the south that went unanswered prior to the Ft Sumpter attack.

When the southern states seceded from the Union, there were still a few forts on southern soil that were manned by United States soldiers.  Rather than surrender the forts, President Lincoln attempted to resupply the soldiers by sea.  The Confederacy learned of Lincoln’s plans and demanded that the forts surrender under threat of force.  When the U.S. soldiers refused, South Carolinians launched a bombardment of Fort Sumter in the Charleston harbor.  After a 34-hour battle, the soldiers inside the fort surrendered to the Confederates.  Legions of men from north and south joined with their leaders to protect their interests.  The primary interest of the north was to maintain the United States as a single, undivided country. 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Have any of you seen the CSA: The Confederate States of America?  Pretty interesting show. 

The problem i see with many of these conversations and even actions (like removing the monuments and assessing motives of the past) is we are viewing them through today's glasses. Society, morals, values and priorities change. I don't see a monument to Lee as a statement that the ideals he fought for should be in today's society. He was a amazing General but held a deeper love for Virginia that he did the Union. That was not uncommon in the earlier days of our country. It was prevalent in the Revolutionary war era and has seemed to fall off as the clock ticked.  I just seem to view them as historical. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[growalot]

See that's what makes all these diaries that were found saved and published so interesting to read...

[The_Field_Ager]

Alabama Boldly Protects Confederate Statues After New Orleans “Cleansing”

http://truthfeed.com/alabama-boldly-protects-confederate-statues-after-new-orleans-cleansing/75297/

[EspressoBuzz]

'We Can't Walk Away From This Truth'

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/we-cant-walk-away-from-this-truth/527721/

Those who say removing these monuments is erasing history or changing history should take note that selective parts of history have been both erased and changed by erecting those statues/monuments.

A long read but very informative.

[greg54]

Confederate Soldiers Memorial, Arlington National Cemetery......will this be next? What about the graves..482 Conderate Soldiers buried...should they be exhumed and removed if a certain group doesn't like it? 

[EspressoBuzz]

Did you even read the article or is it you know everything and didn't bother?

[Rattler]

The point I see being made by Greg54's post is that all of this is done incrementally.  They will never stop the encroachment and demands for surrender.  Anyone who looks at the history of zealots in America can see quite clearly they are never satisfied until their ultimate goal is achieved.  Each minor success simply encourages them to be bolder in their actions.

Every gun owner or hunter with even a rudimentary understanding of gun control in this country, should know this.

[The_Field_Ager]

This is relevant:

 

 

[The_Field_Ager]

With Confederate flags gone, Civil War museum will close

http://www.ajc.com/news/local/with-confederate-flags-gone-civil-war-museum-will-close/ogScTPPdqliC0z4opJ3GTI/

[The_Field_Ager]