Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?

[Buckmaster7600]

I’m not saying I’m an expert, but I have enough experience with it to know what the real deal is. Funny, but I thought This was a discussion, not an argument. 

You have enough experience with it to THINK you know what the real deal is. Like I said give it 10 years, you're a good hunter once you figure out how to use the many attributes to your advantage I can almost guarantee you will agree with me on the fact than an xbow is a far superior killing tool than a vert bow.


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[chas0218]

8 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

^^ Bingo.

See none of the members against Xbow use &/or full inclusion have answered this question! So have to assume their input is based on personal opinion, anti-Xbow propaganda, preconceived notions &/or selfish motives! Until you've carried a Xbow into the woods and hunted with it several times, JMO but think it's a little hypocritical to criticize anyone that would want to hunt with a Xbow.

 

Just because people are against them in archery season doesn't mean they haven't shot/used one. Come on, really need to stereotype people? That's no different than saying every black person supports BLM or voted for Obama.

[Five Seasons]

9 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

^^ Bingo.

See none of the members against Xbow use &/or full inclusion have answered this question! So have to assume their input is based on personal opinion, anti-Xbow propaganda, preconceived notions &/or selfish motives! Until you've carried a Xbow into the woods and hunted with it several times, JMO but think it's a little hypocritical to criticize anyone that would want to hunt with a Xbow.

 

if i was against xbow and full inclusion why would i spend $1k to hunt with one? I know the point you think you're making, but I'm not spending hard earned money to do something I don't want to... to prove some point on the internet. Again, while I don't think the crossbow is a cure all to all troubles bow hunting, i don't have to hunt with one to know it's advantages and disadvantages and how they compare to the compound. 

[Core]

I startex xbow hunting this year and I am still against full inclusion.

As for paper plate accuracy at 60 yards with a compound. I go to a range a good number of times each bow season. I started in 2015. There have been, in this time, a grand total of two people I have ever seen use the 50 yard target: me, and some other guy who was extremely good. Of literally 100% of all the other guys I've seen practicing virtually all of them are never going out past the 30 yard target and I once saw another guy (last year) use the 40. And on one arrow he also missed the target entirely (he was off that weekend to elk hunt). Most of the guys I see who are bow hunters at my range have paper plate accuracy at 20 yards. The better ones have paper plate at 30. Most bow hunters can't even dream of hitting a paper plate consistently at 60 yards with their vertical.

Xbow is more lethal. Everybody in this thread knows it. And it's why I am against full inclusion; for selfish reasons I want to keep a month of even less pressure. Xbow is still immensely more difficult than gun. It is certainly more like vertical than gun, but it is a more lethal implement with a lower learning curve and far easier to pickup and be capable with than a vertical.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Core

[chas0218]

11 minutes ago, Core said:

Xbow is more lethal. Everybody in this thread knows it. And it's why I am against full inclusion; for selfish reasons I want to keep a month of even less pressure. Xbow is still immensely more difficult than gun. It is certainly more like vertical than gun, but it is a more lethal implement with a lower learning curve and far easier to pickup and be capable with than a vertical.

The state land around the hill from my house hasn't had a person on it all of bow season now that crossbow opened there has been a few vehicles parked there everyday when I leave and come home from work. Might be coincidence but I doubt it, full inclusion will bring more people to the woods adding pressure.

I can't speak for those that currently hunt state land I haven't hunted it in 3 or 4 years now but there will be more pressure if full inclusion there is no doubt about that. It wouldn't bother me as much as others being I have my own land to hunt now. I think if there were full inclusion there should be some sort of AR for archery season. I would hate to see all the brown it's down hunters enter the woods and just decimate the deer populations. At least during gun season after a couple days of blasting at everything the deer get the idea and find hiding spots.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

45 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

I don't think anything less of him or anyone else for using a crossbow because they physically can't use a vertical bow.

But you do if they use one and are not physically challenged?  You must really have a poor opinion of folks that hunt with a gun then? 

 

What I don't get about those opposed to this is "what's the big deal and how does it affect you? Is you hunt going to be terrible and impacted becasue you father walks into the woods with a crossbow? If someone wants to use an weapon that is "easier" does that make you efforts to take one with a "more difficult" weapon any less of an accomplishment? I hear the lamenting over how it will be the"nasty slob gun hunters will trounce all over bow season, treat it like gun season and ruin the bow season".  As I run around on some out of state forums in places that allow it, I don't hear all this doomsday playing out. 

[chas0218]

32 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

But you do if they use one and are not physically challenged?  You must really have a poor opinion of folks that hunt with a gun then? 

 

What I don't get about those opposed to this is "what's the big deal and how does it affect you? Is you hunt going to be terrible and impacted becasue you father walks into the woods with a crossbow? If someone wants to use an weapon that is "easier" does that make you efforts to take one with a "more difficult" weapon any less of an accomplishment? I hear the lamenting over how it will be the"nasty slob gun hunters will trounce all over bow season, treat it like gun season and ruin the bow season".  As I run around on some out of state forums in places that allow it, I don't hear all this doomsday playing out. 

No I just don't think it isn't right to use one for all of archery season just because someone wants an easier way to shoot deer. This is how I look at it. I know since PA had full inclusion their harvest rates have gone up meaning more deer harvested during archery and less opportunity for those hunting with a gun. I have talked to several that hunt PA and they say the deer numbers are down since the full inclusion. These are guys that only hunt with crossbow and never picked up a vertical bow. They also said since AR the population numbers have come up but nothing compared to what it used to be. Now Crossbows aren't the only thing to blame as the last couple winters were hard on the deer. But since 2009 many hunters have seen a decrease in deer numbers and the number of harvest don't lie. Crossbow harvests account for over 90% of PA archery harvests. At least up until they differentiated between crossbow harvests and bow.

They maybe louder than a vertical bow but quieter than a firearm and just as effective. Point and Shoot. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by chas0218

[Culvercreek hunt club]

18 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

No I just don't think it isn't right to use one for all of archery season just because someone wants an easier way to shoot deer. This is how I look at it. I know since PA had full inclusion their harvest rates have gone up meaning more deer harvested during archery and less opportunity for those hunting with a gun. I have talked to several that hunt PA and they say the deer numbers are down since the full inclusion. These are guys that only hunt with crossbow and never picked up a vertical bow. They also said since AR the population numbers have come up but nothing compared to what it used to be. Now Crossbows aren't the only thing to blame as the last couple winters were hard on the deer. But since 2009 many hunters have seen a decrease in deer numbers and the number of harvest don't lie. Crossbow harvests account for over 90% of PA archery harvests.

They maybe louder than a vertical bow but quieter than a firearm and just as effective. Point and Shoot. 

A survey in 2013 in PA also showed that 94% of respondents that said they were crossbow hunting also used a recurve and/or compound.  Also look at eh historical take in PA.  The harvest numbers in the 90's and early 2000's were far and away larger than they are now or since the crossbow inclusion. So it sure seems that there are far more forces in play here than the full inclusion of crossbows. 

http://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/Hunting/HarvestDataandMaps/Pages/PennsylvaniaWhite-tailedDeerBlackBearWildTurkeyHarvestReport.aspx

 

[Five Seasons]

5 hours ago, eagle rider said:

100% complete and full inclusion.  If it can make folks harvest safer and more effectively with archery tackle, its stupid to not include it.  It definitely isn't anymore lethal than a compound bow, just more accurate.  KE is the same.  There is no down side to it at all.  This was the way it was in the 60's with the compound shooters as well.  The traditional archery lobby held them back for years.  It took most other states making it good to fly before NYS did.  As far as safety records go, there is no uptick at all in the reports that indicate xbows are more of a risk than compounds or traditional archery tackle.  

lol. a more accurate weapon is more lethal by definition.

also wondering why we don't just start with rifle on 10/1 if we're going for the most effective weapons? why not airguns during archery too?

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, Belo said:

lol. a more accurate weapon is more lethal by definition.

also wondering why we don't just start with rifle on 10/1 if we're going for the most effective weapons? why not airguns during archery too?

 

I wouldn't mind taking one with an airgun. 

 

and for the record your first part is wrong

Edited November 9, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

lol. a more accurate weapon is more lethal by definition.

also wondering why we don't just start with rifle on 10/1 if we're going for the most effective weapons? why not airguns during archery too?

 

Depends on what you compare to the crossbow right? A compound with a 45lbs. draw has no where the potential to kill a deer than the average off the shelf crossbow.

[Buckmaster7600]

I wouldn't mind taking one with an airgun. 
 
and for the record your first part is wrong

Wouldn't it be cool if we had a 2 week season with everything, trad, compound, Xbow, air gun, handgun,muzzleloader, rifle.


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[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I wouldn't mind taking one with an airgun. 

 

and for the record your first part is wrong

Do we really need to get into the precision vs accuracy debate. How about this something that is more accurate and precise would be more lethal by definition. You're splitting hairs and most don't know the difference between precision and accuracy.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Do we really need to get into the precision vs accuracy debate. How about this something that is more accurate and precise would be more lethal by definition. You're splitting hairs and most don't know the difference between precision and accuracy.

you are wrong. 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

The state land around the hill from my house hasn't had a person on it all of bow season now that crossbow opened there has been a few vehicles parked there everyday when I leave and come home from work. Might be coincidence but I doubt it, full inclusion will bring more people to the woods adding pressure.

 

as funny as it is for me to say this, it'll be forever difficult to tell the impact the crossbow has on public land. I personally have spent more time in the woods since saturday then the whole rest of the season combined. It just makes more sense to use vacation and hunt harder during the rut.

[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

you are wrong. 

Which part? and please elaborate. Pretty sure I'm not.

Edited November 9, 2017 by chas0218

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

something that is more accurate and precise would be more lethal by definition. .

 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I hear the lamenting over how it will be the"nasty slob gun hunters will trounce all over bow season, treat it like gun season and ruin the bow season".  As I run around on some out of state forums in places that allow it, I don't hear all this doomsday playing out. 

if you watched the live from the woods thread last weekend it was interesting to see the number of hunters who encountered trespassers and/or added pressure when crossbow opened. I'm not necessarily against crossbows because of added pressure, but for some, it does affect them. 90% of crossbow hunters are good, ethical hunters. There are of course a more common stereotype of gun hunter who is now converting to crossbow that worries some, and that worry is not without merit. 

[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

 

You're still going to need to elaborate. We are talking compounds and crossbows so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

if you watched the live from the woods thread last weekend it was interesting to see the number of hunters who encountered trespassers and/or added pressure when crossbow opened. I'm not necessarily against crossbows because of added pressure, but for some, it does affect them. 90% of crossbow hunters are good, ethical hunters. There are of course a more common stereotype of gun hunter who is now converting to crossbow that worries some, and that worry is not without merit. 

Could it be that more folks are hitting the woods just becasue it is the peak chasing time of the year right now?

[Five Seasons]

11 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I wouldn't mind taking one with an airgun. 

ding ding ding

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

You're still going to need to elaborate. We are talking compounds and crossbows so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

you are going to tell me that an low poundage compound like a target bow  would be as lethal that a 70-80# hunting compound? you can shoot the hair off a fly but if you can't get into the vitals you aren't going to me more lethal

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

ding ding ding

you wouldn't?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

You're still going to need to elaborate. We are talking compounds and crossbows so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

no different than a rifle. is a bench rest 22 lr as lethal as a -06  back woods beater at 100 yards?

[Five Seasons]

12 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

So how would a hunter using a compound out of a Redneck blind, totally concealed have anything to worry about? I sometimes practice off of an elevated platform, and can put arrows inside of a pie plate at 60 yards when I practice consistently.  Same thing really. It’s not that hard with today’s compounds. Anyone can do it if they practice. I most Likely wouldn’t though. I also wouldn’t do that with my crossbow. I’m not using it any differently than my compound, it’s still just an arrow. It’s still vulnerable to the same issues like easy deflection, etc. Last year, I shot my buck at 40 with my compound, this year at 20 with my crossbow.

The scope on it is your typical crossbow scope. Not much magnification, but harder to get on target than a compound.

I dunno, It is what it is, and now that I have been hunting with it, I definately don’t agree that it’s any type of super weapon with much of an advantage over a compound besides being accurate with it faster than with a vertical bow. I also don’t see that as a bad thing. More clean kills by more people is good for the sport as far as I’m concerned. Even the big buck states like Illinois get it. NY will too soon enough. 

as we've said elentybillion times. a compound can be just as accurate as a crossbow. but yes lets use the redneck blind example. First of all they're not cheap, or easy to get into your favorite spot, but typically found near open fields. So lets say i have this blind setup. With a good rest and scope I'm confident out to 50 or even 60, possibly more on a good stationary deer. I can feel comfortable off my bipod at these distances after a weekend of crossbow practice. Agree?

Now take the compound hunter. Yes he can also shoot at these ranges, but most likely after lots and lots of practice. The average swinging dick and forum member here doesn't have the time or ability for this so we're pretty much limited to 30-40 tops. Considering the average ny hunter, your redneck blind setup is just more lethal for the average hunter equipped with a crossbow. 

and i suppose it does bug the compound or recurve hunter to see a pic of some guy with a nice buck he shot at 50 yards out of his blind. I know i'm not alone in this feeling, and I know not every hunter feels this way either. I'm just being brutally honest on why I have always preferred to see archery left alone. the playing field is not equal and it doesn't feel like archery to me. all these pics of crossbows pointing out of ground blinds... idk man. just doesn't feel right. nothing scientific or factual there. I'm sure as time passes it'll feel normal.