NY Senate Committee Hearing

[jpcon]

You may not shoot after dark but it will open the door for any one else who wants to. its too tempting.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Its not the same thing, a shotgun isnt that bulky and 17+ inches in width. You guys keep trying to twist what I said, thats all. Typical.

Oh, and you stand out in the middle of a field while youre hunting? You must not be very successful.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You may not shoot after dark but it will open the door for any one else who wants to. its too tempting.

Wow, you didnt put 2 and 2 together did you?

The temptation will be there whether you are shooting a crossbow or a traditional bow if you are prone to being tempted in that way to begin with. Again, please tell me why a crossbow would up the temptation.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have been watching this debate and even participating since I joined not so long ago....seems like months though...LOL.

Here is the line that I just can't get out of my head. If they passed a law allowing full crossbow use during deer season, how would that affect you guys that are opposing it. They are not forcing you to use one. Your woods would not be lit up with gun fire. It probably would increase traffic and that may interfer with normal petters depending on the tract of lands you hunt.

I would choose not to use on since I do enjoyt hunting with my bow so much but the part of me that hates others imposing on me really doesn't see the harm. If I fill my archery and DMP tags with a bow or a crossbow....any difference? I think when that 3 blade slides through...bambi isn't worried about what it came from.

The two side are NEVER going to agree on this..put me in office for a week...I'll settle it.

Bow season with no crossbows except the last week. Corssbows legal during regular season even in srchery only areas. Corssbows legal in late bow/muzzleloader season.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Why not take the confusion out of it? All archery equipment can be used from the beginning to the end of any deer season. Archery equipment consists of any bow or crossbow that meets the given standards. Then, in order to crossbow hunt, you make people take a safety course and buy a stamp for them. That way, they become a money generator for the state.

[Chevy]

Culver, the concern is that because the crossgun is so similar to a rifle/shotgun there will be a large influx of gun hunters into the archery season. Probably doubling the amount of pressure on the deer. These folks are welcome in archery season but they must use archery equipment which takes some time and practice to learn and master.

[jpcon]

Hey mouth if you read correctly it says "below you" which means elevated from a tree stand or perch from above on the edge of a field or hedgerow.as far as success goes i hunt states in the north east with unlimited tags and kill more deer in one year than you probably did your entire life i hunt and harvest from early sep. to late feb. you probably hunt 6 weekends out of the year. pics to follow.

[jpcon]

States that have just past the cross bow laws have seen a increase in deer drives with large gang preasure durring archery season this is no good a bunch of wounded deer with bolts hanging out of thier hinds.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hey mouth if you read correctly it says "below you" which means elevated from a tree stand or perch from above on the edge of a feild or hedgerow.as far as success goes i hunt states in the north east with unlimited tags and kill more deer in one year than you probably did your entire life i hunt and harvest from early sep. to late feb. you probably hunt 6 weekends out of the year. pics to follow.

Wow, youve already resorted to name calling? Theres a shock. Ive already established that you cant put 2 and 2 together, so I shouldnt be expecting you to understand something that isnt spelled out for you. I personally dont put my stand on the very edge of a field, I make sure there are at least a couple of trees between myself and the wide open field so that I can use them as cover. Get my drift now?

You have no idea how much I hunt, so maybe you want to shut your trap before you stick your foot in it any further. 

[Chevy]

Yep, those are the slob hunters we deal with during gun season.

[WNYBuckHunter]

States that have just past the cross bow laws have seen a increase in deer drives with large gang preasure durring archery season this is no good a bunch of wounded deer with bolts hanging out of thier hinds.

Proof?

I wont hold my breath waiting for it...

[jpcon]

read deer and deer hunting mag and simply spend some more time out from under your rock in other states talking pros and cons to other field expierianced hunters and law enforcment

[WNYBuckHunter]

Thats your proof? Deer & Deer Hunting magazine? No links to DNR or DEC sites showing actual stats or articles in publications? You want me or anyone else to take you seriously with zero proof to back up your accusations and statements? Really?

And now I live under a rock? Wow. Youre speaking volumes now...

[Chevy]

Hopefully crossguns will never be legal during archery season in NY allowing me to collect the proof you demand.  I am telling you what WILL happen if they become legal and it concerns me that you don't care. How do I know what will happen, just hang around the gun clubs and rifle ranges and listen to the guys clammering for the opportunity to cross over into archery season with a crossgun. I ask them if they want me to show them how to use a compound so they could participate now but they decline stating "its too much work." 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Chevy, you are basing your opinion on what you think MIGHT happen. There is no basis for the argument that is based on proof of the same thing happening elsewhere.

I could be wrong of course if you are a time traveler or have a magic crystal ball that can see into the future. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

NOt to put words in WNY mouth but to draw conclusions based on what you believe is going to happen would put you right in with the groups like the gun control folks. I am not trying to sound pissy but conclusions need to be drawn based on facts not supposition.

One thing is clear to me here. This controversy is an all or nothing prospect to those involved on both sides. With all the "enemies" out there to us I would think we should be banded together and focusing on them.

I also hunt North Zone and until 3 years ago when I started muzzleloading i hunted with my bow that last week before the gun opener. I still can't see when a Regulation such as that for the crossbow in the Southern Zone would not work.

[Chevy]

Sure I do. Just check with the Ohio DNR. Here are their deer take number for 2007:

vertical bows 36,347 deer taken. crossgun 42,292 deer taken.

That PROVES that if grossguns we legal in archery season in NY there would be twice as much pressure and the harvest would double.

[SteveB]

NOt to put words in WNY mouth but to draw conclusions based on what you believe is going to happen would put you right in with the groups like the gun control folks. I am not trying to sound pissy but conclusions need to be drawn based on facts not supposition.

Funny how all the anti's are SURE  of what would happen but refuse to back it up with any statistics or proof from any of the areas where crossBOWS have been legal. Duck, run and refuse everytime after being called on it. Obviously it is because they have so few facts, wild azz supposition is all they have.

[SteveB]

Sure I do. Just check with the Ohio DNR. Here are their deer take number for 2007:

vertical bows 36,347 deer taken. crossgun 42,292 deer taken.

That PROVES that if grossguns we legal in archery season in NY there would be twice as much pressure and the harvest would double.

Proves nothing of the sort. It shows that half or so of the bowhunters still use vertical bows - their choice. The herd has been going for a long time in Ohio - last few years, they have increased greatly the number of tags available. They have also added to the gun season because bowhunters - with and without crossBOWS are not getting the job done. If anything what you posted supports the fact that the crossBOW has little effect on the harvest from increased pressure.

How about the proof that the crossBOW is the poacher's weapon of choice - still looking for that??

[Culvercreek hunt club]

CHevy....again...assuming the Ohio DNR knows what it is doing......the harvest was what they wanted. If they only wanted 50,000 taken the tag issued or the method of issuing would be adjusted. In NY if they saw a rise they would not have to issue the DMPs at the rate they are or the Double tags would be restricted to low pressure areas.

Don't make it sound like the herd would be hunted to the verge of extinction.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

you are alson not taking into account the harvest with crossbows by those who "use" to hunt with Bows. I would like to see the numbers of harvest before the crossbow was legalized there

[Culvercreek hunt club]

[table]    [tr]  [td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]  Table 1. Ohio's 2009-10 white-tailed deer harvest by season and percent change from previous year.[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Season/hunt[/td]  [td][/size]

Antlered

[/td]  [td][/size]

Antlerless

[/td]  [td][/size]

Total

[/td]  [td][/size]

% Change

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td][/size]  Early Gun1[/td]  [td]

39,221

[/td]  [td]

74,854

[/td]  [td]

114,075

[/td]  [td]

-2.9

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Bonus Gun[/td]  [td]

5,582

[/td]  [td]

14,473

[/td]  [td]

20,055

[/td]  [td]

19.8

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Total Gun[/td]  [td][/size]

44,803

[/td]  [td][/size]

89,327

[/td]  [td][/size]

134,130

[/td]  [td][/size]

-0.1

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td][/size]  Crossbow[/td]  [td]

21,565

[/td]  [td]

27,500

[/td]  [td]

49,065

[/td]  [td]

5.6

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Vertical Bow[/td]  [td]

16,829

[/td]  [td]

25,652

[/td]  [td]

42,481

[/td]  [td]

7.9

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Total Archery[/td]  [td][/size]

38,394

[/td]  [td][/size]

53,152

[/td]  [td][/size]

91,546

[/td]  [td][/size]

6.6

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td][/size]  Salt Fork2[/td]  [td]

90

[/td]  [td]

183

[/td]  [td]

273

[/td]  [td]

-13.3

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Wildcat Hollow2[/td]  [td]

55

[/td]  [td]

119

[/td]  [td]

174

[/td]  [td]

8.1

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Shawnee2[/td]  [td]

19

[/td]  [td]

25

[/td]  [td]

44

[/td]  [td]

-51.1

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Statewide Muzzleloader3[/td]  [td]

5,846

[/td]  [td]

19,160

[/td]  [td]

25,006

[/td]  [td]

19.3

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Total Muzzleloader[/td]  [td][/size]

6,010

[/td]  [td][/size]

19,487

[/td]  [td][/size]

25,497

[/td]  [td][/size]

18.4

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td][/size]  Statewide Youth[/td]  [td]

4,464

[/td]  [td]

4,805

[/td]  [td]

9,269

[/td]  [td]

-4.4

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  NASA/Plumbrook[/td]  [td]

89

[/td]  [td]

236

[/td]  [td]

325

[/td]  [td]

-3.8

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Ravenna Hunt[/td]  [td]

69

[/td]  [td]

192

[/td]  [td]

261

[/td]  [td]

-27.7

[/td][/tr]  [tr]  [td]  Season Total[/td]  [td][/size]

93,905

[/td]  [td][/size]

167,355

[/td]  [td][/size]

261,260

[/td]  [td][/size]

3.7

[/td][/tr][/table]Looks to me they are staying consistent and where they want to be

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If we run with you logic and look at the 2009 numbers. Archery take with bow is up since 2007...soooooooaddition of crossbow should make the actual traditional bowhunting better

[Chevy]

That chart is hard to ear but it looks like 49k taken with crossgun and 42k taken with bow.  Again, that tells me if we allowed crossguns in archery season the deer take would double and so would the hunting pressure with gun hunters crossing over to kill those 49k deer.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

i guess I should have just posted the link...sorry....you are right in reading it. but in the 2 years since the numbers you posted both are up around 7 grand. and DNR is happy with the take according to their report.

In comparison NY takes about the same number of deer as Ohio. I would believe due to our longer gun season

2009 Deer Harvest Comparison

              2009 Total    2008 Total    Percent Change      Total Take    222,798    222,979    -0.1%      Adult Male    102,057    105,747    -3.5%      Antlerless    120,741    117,232    +3.0%      Adult Female    84,330    79,953    +5.5%      DMPs Issued    527,371    558,172    -5.5%      DMP Take    89,458    86,417    +3.5%      DMAP Take    9,789    10,010    -2.2%      Muzzleloader    18,773    17,838    +5.2%      Bowhunting    34,546    32,366    +6.7%

If the number were to go up they would issue less DMPs