Checked plot..

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You guys that think any kind of food plots are baiting..Well its pretty simple if it comes up out of mother earth then it is now natural reguardless of how it gets there...Dump it out of a bag....not so natural!!

[Steve7]

4SW... couldn't agree more.

[nyantler]

Planting something that wouldn't have been planted if you didn't hunt.. for the purpose of attracting game or holding game is far from natural and certainly not the same as a 50 year old apple orchard that was on the property when you bought it... I'm not saying that either is baiting.. just that they are absolutely not the same when talking about hunting over them.

That would be like saying that hunting a high fence area where deer have been placed for hunting is the same as hunting deer in open range... just because they are both deer

[burmjohn]

Planting something that wouldn't have been planted if you didn't hunt.. for the purpose of attracting game or holding game is far from natural and certainly not the same as a 50 year old apple orchard that was on the property when you bought it... I'm not saying that either is baiting.. just that they are absolutely not the same when talking about hunting over them.

That would be like saying that hunting a high fence area where deer have been placed for hunting is the same as hunting deer in open range... just because they are both deer

So just because someone was fortunate enough to have an apple orchard on their property they would be held to a different light then those who choose to plant food plots? Its exactly the same thing. Those apple orchards take time, fertilizer and knowledge to maintain as a plot does as well as similar benefits to the wildlife.

[nyantler]

So just because someone was fortunate enough to have an apple orchard on their property they would be held to a different light then those who choose to plant food plots? Its exactly the same thing. Those apple orchards take time, fertilizer and knowledge to maintain as a plot does as well as similar benefits to the wildlife.

Nobody would be held to anything...I'm not even talking about baiting ... all I'm saying is a crop planted with the intent to attract game is not the same as an old apple orchard that was planted to sell apples to make a living 50 years ago.. the orchard would have been planted in spite of hunting and the food plot was planted to attract game for hunting.. that's way different motivation for each. Just like oak trees that have been around for 100 years is natural.. hibrid deer clover is not... I know the food plotters like to think they are the same, but the intent with which each was planted is different. I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other just that they are not the same thing.

Edited October 8, 2011 by nyantler

[burmjohn]

But they are the same exact thing, thats the point. They feed the wild life, provide cover, food, breading grounds, etc.

[dave6x6]

burnjohn, thank God you are still sane.

Steve, clearly you have some bug up your hole over food plots and it's clearly clouding your judgement..

[Four Season Whitetail's]

High fence ,low fence its still a whitetail deer. A fence does not change the animal it only changes how far that animal can go.If a food plot is planted in early spring and its a three to five year plot are you trying to tell me it does not help the deer and every other critter that eats from it all year long.Just because my ass sits on the plot a few times during deer season is far from bringing in bags of corn and beets to sit over and kill a deer when it comes to get a snack.Not real hard to figure out!!.

[nyantler]

But they are the same exact thing, thats the point. They feed the wild life, provide cover, food, breading grounds, etc.

Except one was planted for hunting and the other was not...thats the difference. A 50 yr old apple orchard has apples that fall from the tree to the ground...a man piles apples up that he brought from home.. one is considered baiting the other is not...they both are apples on the ground, but they are not the same thing as it pertains to hunting. the difference is one is manufactured the other is natural.

[dave6x6]

Except one was planted for hunting and the other was not...thats the difference. A 50 yr old apple orchard has apples that fall from the tree to the ground...a man piles apples up that he brought from home.. one is considered baiting the other is not...they both are apples on the ground, but they are not the same thing as it pertains to hunting. the difference is one is manufactured the other is natural.

Joe, What about the thousands of hunters who hunt the commercial apple orchards and wineries in the fingerlakes. Is the fact that they slam some awesome bucks every yr. somehow tainted in your eyes?

[burmjohn]

Except one was planted for hunting and the other was not...thats the difference. A 50 yr old apple orchard has apples that fall from the tree to the ground...a man piles apples up that he brought from home.. one is considered baiting the other is not...they both are apples on the ground, but they are not the same thing as it pertains to hunting. the difference is one is manufactured the other is natural.

Do you think every apple orchard was planted for the sole purpose of harvesting apples for human consumption?

Regardless, your comparison between an orchard and a man piling up a bunch of apples has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

[wdswtr]

Hey I have planted many an apple tree and varoius other fruit bearing trees an nut producing trees and none of it was for human consumption. So I can say my foodplots I planted and oak trees and berry bushes and apple trees etc are indeed the same. LOL

[Doc]

I'm not sure I really want to get into this, but I guess I will anyway.....lol.

To my way of thinking, baiting and food plotting have one thing in common. They both have the capability (and often the purpose) of artificially conditioning an otherwise "wild" animal to present itself for the convenience of our hunting, and to make our hunting easier. Baiting does that in a more efficient fashion that puts the prey animal in an exact position, and the plots do the same thing except the positioning aspect is no where near as good. Of course, the same thing can be said for any agricultural field, it's just that again, the positioning thing is even less precise than the plots or the baiting.

My preference is that I don't really get involved in trying to treat deer like farm animals in any fashion, and that I hunt deer that are pretty much establishing their own patterns which I have to discover and take advantage of. That's just an additional part of hunting that I want to be challenged with. Like I said, that's my preference. Others practice whatever they want their hunting to represent for them. It's a personal preference kind of thing. No real right or wrong to any of it, just preference.

The only right and wrong about any of it is that plotting is legal and baiting is not. And as stated earlier, I believe the DEC has some valid reasons for making the distinctions that they do.

[nyantler]

Hey I have planted many an apple tree and varoius other fruit bearing trees an nut producing trees and none of it was for human consumption. So I can say my foodplots I planted and oak trees and berry bushes and apple trees etc are indeed the same. LOL

Boy you fellas just don't like paying attention do you? An apple orchard planted for the purpose of attracting deer is the same as any other FOOD PLOT planted for hunting... ANYTHING planted to attract deer for the purpose of hunting would be the same as they pertain to hunting, which could and is thought of as a form baiting in some hunters eyes... it was planted for no other reason than the planter is a hunter trying to attract wildlife.. After the fact.. food plotters like to use the "it's great for all wildlife" angle to justify their initial reason for even considering food plots, which is to attract wildlife to hunt. Not every orchard or oak stand were planted with that intent.. therefore will not be viewed the same way as plots planted for the purpose of attracting animals to hunt.

I have nothing against food plots or others hunting over them.. that's your choice... I don't really even consider it baiting.. I'm with Doc... I look at it more like farming deer...you new QDM guys have carried food plots way away from the original deer management plan that I spoke on 15 years ago.. which was just about planting brouse type plants to assist deer through the tougher winter areas.. now we have come to fellas planting food plots in huge agricultural areas where deer couldn't starve if they wanted to.. stop defending your want to attract and hold deer as some noble gesture to enhance wildlife conservation... I'm betting that nobody here would have considered planting food plots if they weren't a hunter. So yes.. a manufactured food source for the purpose of attracting deer is much different than finding and hunting over a natural food source.

Feeders are a manufactured food source for hunting over as well.. yet they are illegal.. I'd be curious to see how many food plotters would change to feeders if they suddenly became legal...

[nyantler]

Joe, What about the thousands of hunters who hunt the commercial apple orchards and wineries in the fingerlakes. Is the fact that they slam some awesome bucks every yr. somehow tainted in your eyes?

You somehow think I care how others hunt... what, where, when , why or how others hunt doesn't concern me in the least... my opinions aren't based on what others do... my opinions are based on how things affect MY hunting experience... I don't care if guys hunt treestands, food plots, or tie deer to trees and shoot them... I choose not to... that has nothing to do with you or anybody elses way of hunting.

[wdswtr]

I was paying attention NYantler I was poking fun at you to lighten the atmosphere, hence the reaon I put LOL at the end.

[nyantler]

sorry . i didn't catch that.. no need to lighten things up though.. its just a debate with differences of opinion..

[dave6x6]

As i've stated before, at least food plotters can say one thing. The only guarantee you have when you put in a plot is that wildlife will benifit from it. What can you non plotters say you do?? Most hunters don't do anything more than your average green piece member. Thank goodness they at least buy tags. Maybe $5 will go towards wildlife and habitat improvements. Thanks for the effort guys. Then there are you guys who all last week were lamenting about how the hunting #'s are low and kids are not interested in taking up the sport. Well how would you like to be 16 and dads got you convinced that hunting is awesome so were going together this year. When the son asks what to expect dad says "well son, were going to get up at 4am and head to our stands and sit there til 11 and maybe we'll see a squrrel which will be really cool and then will go back after lunch and sit for 4 or 5 hrs totally motionless so we dont spook the chipmunks. Then we'll do it again Sunday. Doesn't that sound great. If we get cold then we'll get down and still hunt really slow and maybe if we are lucky we will actually see a deer. Well a fawn and button buck. What teenager in their right mind would ever want to try that again next yr.? I have clients who have hunted that way for years. They have worked their whole life and bought a nice piece of property and because the nieghbors shoot everything that moves, he calls me and says i'm sick of hunting a barren waistland, is there anything you can do to help my hunting experience to be more enjoyable? I don't need to grow monster buck, he says, but it would be nice to bring my son or friends out here and have a chance to shoot something. Maybe a food plot would keep the deer content on my property during more of the yr, so Joe lead-slinger doesn't shoot them the minute they drop their spots. And then when they do and mention it to someone like Steve, they get the whole baloney, stickup his arss attitude about food plots. It's no wonder the DEC can't get anything right in this state when every little issue is followed by public meetings filled with blow hard hunters who are either jealous of what some other hunters accomplish by doing things different then them or they are totally unwilling to give up their ways even if it is for the good of the hunter and wildlife. God forbid you try to move the archery season. God forbid you allow cross bows. God forbid you implement antler restrictions in some zones. nyantler i know you have been doing things for the wildlife and hunters for a long time but some of you others who like to mock someone and call them full of crap when they mention plots benifitting the wildlife, Id like to know what the heck are you doing? Anything?? Maybe you should be thanking them for the rest of the freeloading members of the hunting community. You know who you are.

[Doc]

Well, before you throw something out of joint patting yourself on the back with your self proclaimed hero-status, let me point out that deer and other animals have done just fine prior to food plots. And as some have pointed out, most of this food plotting has more to do with personal gain in attracting deer for personal hunting purposes than any sort of benevolent concerns for the welfare of wildlife. So it's probably time to climb down off your high horse and understand that food plotters are not the salvation of all things wild.

Also, don't be trying to make it sound like food plotters are the only ones that are paying their way. We all foot the bill for the real wildlife managers of the whole state. And just because you choose to draw deer to your own piece of property for the benefit of your own hunting, don't be over-stating the importance that your efforts have on the overall state wildlife picture. The rest of us are picking up the tab on that item.

So if you want to put in food plots, fine.....but don't be belittleing the contributions of those that don't.

[nyantler]

Well, before you throw something out of joint patting yourself on the back with your self proclaimed hero-status, let me point out that deer and other animals have done just fine prior to food plots. And as some have pointed out, most of this food plotting has more to do with personal gain in attracting deer for personal hunting purposes than any sort of benevolent concerns for the welfare of wildlife. So it's probably time to climb down off your high horse and understand that food plotters are not the salvation of all things wild.

Also, don't be trying to make it sound like food plotters are the only ones that are paying their way. We all foot the bill for the real wildlife managers of the whole state. And just because you choose to draw deer to your own piece of property for the benefit of your own hunting, don't be over-stating the importance that your efforts have on the overall state wildlife picture. The rest of us are picking up the tab on that item.

So if you want to put in food plots, fine.....but don't be belittleing the contributions of those that don't.

Spot on..!! +1 I think there is nothing wrong with food plotting.. just call them what they are.. a deer attractant.

Edited October 10, 2011 by nyantler

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Bullshit.Bullshit Bullshit.Dave hit most of the nail.The only part i dont agree with dave is that EVERYBODY should plant something. Yes it would be nice but to each their own. You guys say they are a deer attractant which is true i agree and it attractacts and feeds every critter in the woods that eat greens and bed's in greens and peck in greens ALL YEAR LONG.How hard is it for you to figure out.A freakin bucket of corn is gunna attract a deer in a certin amout of time or its going to rot...BAITING FOR A HUNT!!! My corn food plots have deer in them today and the spring gobblers will be in them in may.I would agree that if someone scratches out a twenty yard circle under their ladder stand and plants a annual forage,you could scream baiting BUT my 5 different food plots 4 pereniall and 1 annual do a hell of alot more than attract deer just in the months of oct and nov.The only difference between a farmer and a food plotter is the FARMER harvests his but the food plotter lets the WILDLIFE harvest their's!!

[burmjohn]

Where I am there is not one single farm with in miles, overgrown woods everywhere. This is my second year on this property, its the first property I can actually call my own. We keep about 40 acres of area as off limits as a animal sanctuary and eventually will have a 5+ acre field in there down the road. We have two 1 Acre plots, there is one stand on the plot which is not hunted over. There is no point of bow hunting the plots as the shots from the stand would be a minimum of 40+ yards. The food plots unlike feeders are hit 99% of the time at night because they are open area's where deer will not roam out onto during the day, especially during the higher pressure hunting season.

Feeders ARE NOT the same as food plots. Food plots benefit ALL wild life thought out the year, they provide everything from bedding, to breading grounds, and of course the tonnage of food. They are the same exact thing as an apple orchard, oak tree's, or whatever out there native to the land or not. I'm still new to all this, and next year plan to add turnips and other things that will provide food into the winter. We plan on trying thin out the woods in our area as well to allow the tree's to mature, allow other plans to grow. Down the road once I get a tractor I'd like to start a small apple orchard that my family, my baby daughter, as well as the wild life can enjoy. We had some broccoli rabe that we picked this year, which came out amazing with sausage last weekend. Next year I plan on doing some corn, again for me, my family as well as the wild life.

So yeah, a "deer attractant" they may be in some of your misinformed eyes, but don't forget the 50 other things they are as well.

[nyantler]

Bullshit.Bullshit Bullshit.Dave hit most of the nail.The only part i dont agree with dave is that EVERYBODY should plant something. Yes it would be nice but to each their own. You guys say they are a deer attractant which is true i agree and it attractacts and feeds every critter in the woods that eat greens and bed's in greens and peck in greens ALL YEAR LONG.How hard is it for you to figure out.A freakin bucket of corn is gunna attract a deer in a certin amout of time or its going to rot...BAITING FOR A HUNT!!! My corn food plots have deer in them today and the spring gobblers will be in them in may.I would agree that if someone scratches out a twenty yard circle under their ladder stand and plants a annual forage,you could scream baiting BUT my 5 different food plots 4 pereniall and 1 annual do a hell of alot more than attract deer just in the months of oct and nov.The only difference between a farmer and a food plotter is the FARMER harvests his but the food plotter lets the WILDLIFE harvest their's!!

All that is all great stuff.. but thats not the reason you planted them.. that is just the bi-product of your initial want to attract deer... if you weren't a deer hunter you would never have planted them... and if you say you would have.. I'm saying you're being less than honest...

[burmjohn]

All that is all great stuff.. but thats not the reason you planted them.. that is just the bi-product of your initial want to attract deer... if you weren't a deer hunter you would never have planted them... and if you say you would have.. I'm saying you're being less than honest...

Actually the old man is the one that actually planted them, he is not a deer hunter, he would eventually like to see if it can help get some birds on the property as well as help the rest of the wild life. Started off with something small, because that's what we could afford at the time, and to see how it goes.

Regardless, its not to attract deer, its to feed the deer and wild life. Thats what a food plot does The deer are all over the place where we before we had any plots.

[nyantler]

I think some of us will have to agree to disagree on this one!