New York Crossbow Hunters..

[WNYBuckHunter]

Grow, I said that that part of your statement is 100% without a doubt, false, and it is. Like I said, DEC has already clearly stated that crossbows are archery equipment, and that statement can be verified in the 5 year deer management plan. Read it for yourself.

The rest of your statement, well, I dont quite understand it. The DEC does mandate a separate class and permit for the use of a bow. If you just misspelled and actually mean a crossbow, then again, the current regs are temporary, as DEC has made clear more than once. I agree that the current regs are a bit on the silly side, but DEC did what they had to to get them included into the regular season for now.

As far as how compounds were introduced exactly, I dont know the details, as I wasnt around at the time. Regardless, it doesnt really matter what happened with them, we are talking crossbows and what the situation is with them currently.

[BigTomsCalls]

No, the reason why its not included in the bow class right now is because it is only legal to use in the firearms seasons right now. Once it is included in archery season, the instructors will be teaching the required curriculum about it, or they wont be teaching the class at all. Just my guess, but its the only logical thing that will happen. The instructors dont rule the roost, DEC does, and any instructor that believes they are irreplaceable is sadly mistaken.

Just stating what I know!!! Lets take a look at this.

There's a huge waiting list of people out there that want to spend countless hours and money to become " Volunteer" bow hunter instructors. I think not!!!

In some places it's hard to fine a archery hunter course because there are not enough instructores Fact!!!

If and when the state includes xbows in the archery only season it will be because they will issue some form of bogus permit just like they did last year by just signing on to the DEC web site saying you read the rules and printing it out.

If you think that the volunteer instructors in this state don't carry any weight you got your head stuck in the sand. In fact if the state bypasses the bow hunter instructors by doing that they stand a chance of losing a good majority of them!! FACT!!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Just stating what I know!!! Lets take a look at this.

There's a huge waiting list of people out there that want to spend countless hours and money to become " Volunteer" bow hunter instructors. I think not!!!

There are other instructors out there and Im sure others that are willing to do the work. Anyone that thinks they are irreplacable in any position is just kidding themselves. EVERYONE is replaceable, especially volunteers.

In some places it's hard to fine a archery hunter course because there are not enough instructors Fact!!!

Most of the reason behind that is because everyone waits till the last minute and classes fill up quickly. Not the instructor's or DEC's fault.

If and when the state includes xbows in the archery only season it will be because they will issue some form of bogus permit just like they did last year by just signing on to the DEC web site saying you read the rules and printing it out.

What else do you see through your crystal ball? The ONLY way to figure out what the DEC is most likely going to do with crossbows once they have the permanent regs in place, is to look at how they handle other weapons that are currently legal and included in their permanent seasons. Its not a good idea to base the final regs upon what the DEC did temporarily, which is how the regs are set in place now.

If you think that the volunteer instructors in this state don't carry any weight you got your head stuck in the sand. In fact if the state bypasses the bow hunter instructors by doing that they stand a chance of losing a good majority of them!! FACT!!!

The DEC doesnt work for the instructors, it works for the people of NY. The instructors that want to keep telling themselves that they are not replaceable are deluded.

Show me why they would include the crossbow in the archery class right now if its not legal to hunt with it in archery season? Why wouldnt it be included in the gun class for now? Its because it would make no sense to have in the archery class at this point, not because some instructors on a power trip said they would quit.

[NFA-ADK]

What name calling? You made a list of things and I responded. It's called a discussion, and usually when someone makes claims (such as all kinds of safety concerns) they do so because something has caused them to be concerned with it.

My opinion is, that people that claim crossbows are unsafe and they are this and that with no facts or proof to back it up, are just making things up and spreading misinformation. I call them out on it whenever I encounter it.

BTW, I already said I didn't realize you had killed a deer with a bow yet, from the way you were talking, it sounded as if you had. Best of luck to you in getting your first one!

I never said anything about cross bows being unsafe, if you understood what I was talking about, It has to do with new hunters being unsafe with them. You need to read more carefully.

In so far as name calling apparently you forget what you posted...

"Ok there skippy, if you want to play, Im game." Your quote...

No my name is not skippy... Sorry you have to stup so low and I will not come down to your level.

And for your information I do not need to kill any deer with my bow ever to prove to anyone that I have improved my skills. That is only for the hunter that say I killed X amount of deer or to prove to some hunting buddy your hunting knowledge and wisdom farce...

Killing deer does not make you a good hunter.

Again I am done with this post. Thanks for the good luck wish but I use the bow for scouting mainly and I have discovered I like shooting a bow... If I wanted to kill a deer with it I would have gone out to Sag Harbor and whacked one over the head with a bat, I mean shot it with my bow.

[BigTomsCalls]

Of cousre they are replacable and they know that but at what cost to the state!! You don't have to agree with what I have said and you don't have to believe what I said but you can believe one thing there are people out there that will go to any lenghts to keep the xbow out of that regular archery season!!

To say that any intructor is on a power trip is wrong they are just a few of the many who believe that the xbow is not a bow.

So for now I'm done with you. You know it all and you know what you can do with your crystal ball!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

LMAO, too funny. Instead of answer my question, you call me a know it all and say youre done.

I do agree that there are people out there that will try to keep crossbows out. I just dont think they will be successful.

[BigTomsCalls]

LMFAO Your question were answered your just to closed minded to read them in my posts.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I never said anything about cross bows being unsafe, if you understood what I was talking about, It has to do with new hunters being unsafe with them. You need to read more carefully.

Come on, you singled crossbow users out as being unsafe, its perfectly clear.

In so far as name calling apparently you forget what you posted...

"Ok there skippy, if you want to play, Im game." Your quote...

No my name is not skippy... Sorry you have to stup so low and I will not come down to your level.

Wow, thats all it takes to offend you? I wasnt saying Skippy in any type of derogatory manner. If I was trying to insult you I would have called you an a-hole lol. Like Ive said before to others, lighten up.

And for your information I do not need to kill any deer with my bow ever to prove to anyone that I have improved my skills. That is only for the hunter that say I killed X amount of deer or to prove to some hunting buddy your hunting knowledge and wisdom farce...

Killing deer does not make you a good hunter.

Now when did I call you a bad hunter? And when did I say killing deer makes you a good hunter? Again, I think you need to lighten up a bit.

Again I am done with this post. Thanks for the good luck wish but I use the bow for scouting mainly and I have discovered I like shooting a bow... If I wanted to kill a deer with it I would have gone out to Sag Harbor and whacked one over the head with a bat, I mean shot it with my bow.

Youre Welcome.

[growalot]

WNYBH...No I didn't miss spell..you really need to read that a bit slower..because I think you are maybe.... not sure...reading this with a assumption I'm saying they aren't bows...What I said was in the .. 3 factual outlined statements....in which the state even "temporarily " included them.... one would have to see they are treating them as something other than archery equipment...to which I later stated they are archery equipment.

Now let me ask you...do you honestly think that the DEC is going to make it mandatory to have to take a archery course to use a xbow in archery season...after they already allowed it during gun season with out a course? how do you think they'll handle the uproar from that?

If the manner of introduction of the compound into archery season is irrelevant.... than why is one so quick to jump on that band wagon as it being a reason xbows should be allowed in bow season....Now if memory serve.....hhhmm

[WNYBuckHunter]

I gottcha now, you are calling them bows. I just wasnt sure is all.

Yes, I think that they are going to be included in the archery class. The only thing I am not 100% sure on, is if they will grandfather them in and those that have the current "certificate" dont need the class, or if they will offer a short add on style class for people that use them or have the current certificate. Either way, Im sure that any NEW crossbow users will have to take the archery class, just like vertical bow users so they can hunt during archery season.

Honestly, Id like to see maybe a 2 hour class for those that already have their archery license and filled out the crossbow "certificate". For those with no current bow hunting license, tough noogies, take the bow class like the rest of us did if you want to use one.

I hope that made sense.

I dont believe I ever jumped on that bandwagon and dont believe crossbows need any of that justification. If I ever said that, please point it out and I will tell you I was drinking that day lol.

[growalot]

Honestly, Id like to see maybe a 2 hour class for those that already have their archery license and filled out the crossbow "certificate". For those with no current bow hunting license, tough noogies, take the bow class like the rest of us did if you want to use one.

I'm glad we can agree on at least some of this....Pheeww we made it through that one with little to no bruises...

[WNYBuckHunter]

hahahaha, see what happens when we play nice

[skyhunter]

I find it amussing how the anti crossbower brings up saftey concerns as well as the reckless long distance shot.

1st) where is this alarming safety data from the states that have legalized crossbows and had them for years. . Post up or shut.

2nd) the concern for the long distance and irresponsible shooting. Funny, I see that every time I turn on a hunting channel and watch the compound shooters constantly miss deer and from all ranges; long and short. I also see it all the time on rifle hunts as well. Maybe these guys shouldn't be hunting or talking those shots either.

It all boils down to assuming that anyone carrying a crossbow can't know what their doing and is a threat to everyone else.

Question? do you ever see questionable shot choices coming from so called "experienced" hunters carrying other weapons,

answer: yes, every time I turn on the TV.

Edited February 15, 2012 by skyhunter

[SplitG2]

wow, I just looked at the first video! Can't believe some people out there....got a guy shooting xbow and what appears two guys shooting a vertical bow in front of them but to the right! Safety thrown to the wind! Not the equipemnent that scares me but the individual using the weapons!

[growalot]

Wondering if any one else took note of that as those bolts were zipping in

[bubba]

I'm sure when it becomes included in archery season, that they will move the curriculum over to the bow class. That's the only thing that makes sense. I have never heard any crossbow supporter say they had any problem with including them in the safety course. That's a new one.

If you got this from my post, I did not get the message out the way I wanted. I mean thise against them are now saying they are archery equipment and need ot be taugh tin archery. When the issue started those against them were all calling them xguns so no need to have them in archery.

[bubba]

No, the reason why its not included in the bow class right now is because it is only legal to use in the firearms seasons right now.

Once it is included in archery season, the instructors will be teaching the required curriculum about it, or they wont be teaching the class at all. Just my guess, but its the only logical thing that will happen. The instructors dont rule the roost, DEC does, and any instructor that believes they are irreplaceable is sadly mistaken.

according to my regional coordinator, it will be taught in regular gun classes only

[sits in trees]

The reason the xbow is not tought in the archery class is most of the archery instructer said they would not teach the class if the state made them teach anything about the xbow.

this is nonsense, where do you get your facts?

[bubba]

ok directly from my regional coordinator. Anyone who fills out the certificate now is certified with a cross bow. In the future, and not even yet, it is included in the hunter ed class. when you get your hunter ed certificate after the date is is actually put in place, it will be understood that you are certified in crossbow as it will be mandated to be taught in classes after that date. Our question was, how will you prove it? will a person have to carry their certificate to prove the date they took a class to prove they are certified? It was thrown together in a hurry, and lots of bugs to iron out. That being said, it will be taught in hunter ed the same as ml is and has been since the inception of the special season for them,. There was talk at that time for a special class same as archery. That was when I got into hunter ed, because that was my plan to teach ml only. The bottom line is there were not enough instructors to keep up with the demand when ml started, and there will not be when they start crossbows in special seasons, and I am pretty sure sell another stamp for it and tag. Everyone will want one the same as everyone wanted a muzzleloader. It is what it is and will continue to be so. And BTW some self centered instructor saying they are not willing to do it, will have no effect on state policies. All the instructors I know and work with, are ready to go with it. We were promised they will double our salary for doing so. We have been given a 15 minute dvd to study and talk form the dvd. My plan is to show the dvd

Edited February 15, 2012 by bubba

[sits in trees]

you know it's just time everyone stops pissin about what the heck the weapon should be classified as and wether or not NYS instructors are going to form some kind of xbow boycott because they are such purist's to the sport( which is total BS ) it should just be a hunters right if he so chooses to fill his deer tag during bow season with an xbow, then he should damn well be allowed to do so, especially on his own land.

what are you vert bow folks so scared about, is it that people who ordinarily wouldnt get a deer during bow season with a vert bow might fill their tag with a crossbow, and my God possibly meaning less deer for you??? this is what this always comes down to isnt it!

has nothing to do with when to have the season or how to classify the crossbow, nooooo, it has everything to having other hunters maybe, just maybe gaining a slight edge and bagging some of yer deer!

[wuggzwest]

Count me in on here and on Facebook. I shoot long,recurve, compound and most recently crossbow (barnett ghost 400)! Good stuff

[BigTomsCalls]

this is nonsense, where do you get your facts?

From a relative with over 20 years teaching the archey class. If the state does indeed plan on having xbow tought in hunter ed than either my statements have merit or the state does not really consider the xbow to be archey equipment.

[bubba]

it has been that way from the start no rogue instructor changed the states ideas. time for your meds?

[BigTomsCalls]

it has been that way from the start no rogue instructor changed the states ideas. time for your meds?

OH I see it's been such a long time!! Why didn't they teach it last years hunter ed classes then? You need meds!!

[bubba]

it was not taught yet as it has not been set up yet. Please try to be more original and not steal everyone's lines. I have been an instructor for over 25 years. I am sure I am much more informed than you when it comes to this subject and probably most other subjects too. As I stated above if english is comprehensible to you, instructors have been given a dvd which tells what to be instructed. We are not allowed to do so until the state (who is in charge not your buddy) tells us to. See in the real world the state runs the program not some loud mouth instructor who thinks he runs it. I hope this answers your question since this is the third time I explained it. If not time for your meds then.