Doc

I have to say that I have little interest in that wacky, running through the woods, breeding time of year. Any deer that I have ever gotten at that time of year was just a very lucky encounter that involved no skill whatsoever. In fact on those lucky kills, I probably should have bought a lottery ticket that day. How many deer at that time of year have I watched hundreds of yards away zig-zagging and running flat out nowhere near any trails. If the object were to just see deer that would be alright, but me with my trusty bow really needs a little more of a break than that, and a lot more aspects that are a bit more predictable. So guys can spend all the time they want worrying about how to predict that frantic time of the breeding season, and I likely will have the same success as they do, just counting on some random stroke of luck. Try working on the seeking phase of the rut where daytime buck movement increases and they are still in a bit of a routine. That is the time of the year when I can maybe turn that knowledge into success.

My first bow-killed deer was a buck with 7" spikes. Those "antlers" are mounted on a plaque and are the most prized of all my mounts. Everytime I look at that silly-looking little rack or am asked about it, I am brought back to that day and all the events that surrounded that number one. It's not the rack that I prize, it is the memories of the event and all the hunts that led up to that day of accomplishment. I wonder if I should score that one to see if it measures up ..... lol.

There are 4 basic State Forest classifications (defined below): Reforestation Areas Multiple Use Areas Unique Areas State Nature and Historic Preserves On the following page, they go into a brief description of each classification: http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/7811.html I would not be surprised if each classification has a small book of rules and regulations attached. So yes the real answer to the question of what can or cannot be left behind on each classification probably differs depending on each parcel and what its classification may be. And it would not surprise me if there might even be differences with each classification depending on the specific parcel. When you ask these kinds of questions, it is probably useful to ask them about the specific parcel you intend to use. Note their are also special rules and regulations regarding state park lands.

I would be happy to get the moneyed interests out of the management process, and the DEC seems to be moving to put the moneyed interests in charge of management, or at least with an adequate influence to shape policy and decisions. Those are decisions that the DEC should have within their power. However, I do understand the politics of the DEC. After all their boss is appointed by and beholden to the Governor. I only ask that they don't be so damned blatant about it.

I'm not sure about seeing the sky or what is in the trees when it comes to deer hunting ....lol. In fact pop-ups might even help with "focus". But what does concern me is "tunnel vision". I have been nailed so many times by those deer that forsake the trails and come walking in from behind. Bucks are notorious for this. They tend to travel patterns that run perpendicular to trails so they can scent-check as many different trails as possible. At least that is the pattern they maintain in our area during the seeking phase of the rut. Opening up shooting windows in the front as well as the rear kind of makes all your movements look like highly visible, eye-catching, silhouettes. Does that make them useless? .... heck no. But it is just one limitation that I try to keep in mind. I generally build a pile of natural ground blinds out of existing materials. I use them season after season so they are not some new eye-sore on the landscape to disturb the deer. I always have visibility in a 360 degree fashion with a high wall of brush and debris to get behind regardless of where the deer come from. But this year I will also be using pop-ups too when a new spot suddenly turns up. I need that flexibility.

I don't think there is anyone who wants to see deer munching down future forest before they exist. I think that is a worthy goal to actually want to prevent that. So how on earth does the enlistment of opinions from uneducated laymen ensure that that goal is met. That was the basic flaw of the CTFs. And now they want to expand that flaw. How about the DEC starts putting into practice all those college degrees that we pay so much for and start applying their own so-called expertise instead of enlisting an army of uneducated stakeholders who just happen to have financial interests as their "stakes". How about some good changes that make sense, changes that improve deer population estimates and scientific estimates of habitat changes and the real impacts of the herd on that habitat. Perhaps it is time to move the deer management out of the world of opinion and into the world of actual science that these guys and gals have been schooled in.

These how-to articles are really decent things to read. But bear in mind that no one that I ever heard of has all the answers. And if deer hunting anywhere could be boiled down to 5 suggestions, we would all be dragging home some great deer every time out. On the other hand, going over 5 of the deer hunting basics never did hurt anyone even those that think they know all there is to know about hunting deer.....lol.

It all really means that you can rationalize and make any statistic come out the way you want it to by whatever twisted logic that you want to apply to make the results come out whatever you want them to.

Ha-ha-ha .... your buddy is just like most hunters. Most of us have a particular bias, and will make all kinds of silly claims in defense of our favorite caliber. Nothing unusual about that. Caliber, cartridge, make, model, of the best deer load and rifle will fill many pages of replies on a hunting forum. We all like our own choices .... right or wrong.

I would add one more thing to the list and that is this incessant obsession with antlers as being the only measure of success. We have newbie hunters being sent afield all schooled up with unreasonable expectations from Saturday morning TV as to what are the minimum requirements to declare a hunting experience a success. We have devised a scoring system of horn measurement to define failure and frustration and packaged it as the only bonafide way to measure a hunters prowess and enjoyment of the hunt. I can't help but wonder how many of our diminishing numbers are gone because of this kind of nonsense ...... Hunters that now believe that a lack of harvest of a book buck means complete failure as a hunter and complete failure of hunting as a satisfying and worthwhile experience and endeavor. I also have to wonder how much of this constantly growing and ever-strangulating new regulations and restrictions are because of this same manufactured mentality and force-fed idea that the only successful hunt is one that ends with a certain "minimum score".

This question kind of struck me funny, because generally one gun is enough of a pain to struggle with. The first picture that popped into mind was some poor sap soaked in sweat and panting like a dog with two guns draped over his shoulders and a bear-hug on 3 more, trudging through the woods to his stand....lol. Actually, I have seen something equally silly looking. It was a bowhunter carrying a humongous ladder stand, a monster back pack, and his bow. From about 50 yards away, I could hear his breathing (more like wheezing), and I could see that his clothes were beginning to soak through ...... and he hadn't even began his climb up the hill. I could only admire his determination. I guess I would have almost the same reaction if I saw some guy wandering around the woods lugging more than one gun. The original question was interesting, but I doubt it will ever have any relevance to anything I will ever be doing.

I'm not an expert on writing laws, but I would have thought that simply stating "the highway and the applicable right-of-way" would have been quite explicit and removed all of the "etcetera" verbiage. It would then be the responsibility of any hunter who wanted to hunt that close to the road to contact the authorities and establish where they are legal to shoot from before hunting or shooting from there. It would also be the responsibility of any LEO to do the same before enforcing that law.

Do you have any idea what month the picture was taken.

Could be any of the above guesses, or even a scabbed over wound from banging into something.

Yeah, I love the use of the term "etcetera" in the wording of laws.

Yup ..... That is pretty low for a bear.

Not knowing what time of year this was done, and whether or not bucks still had their antlers, I would expect that it was a buck rub. But I offer up the possibility that it may be a bear just as an alternative theory.

Perhaps this is a declaration of the DEC intent not to have as much concern for hunter satisfaction as in times past. It may be a statement of divorce of sorts. It began with the CTFs and is being expanded in a more clear and public way. From strictly a hunter's standpoint, I have to say that it sucks. However, we are getting to be a smaller and less significant and less influential percentage of the general population. This is likely just a DEC acknowledgement of that fact. Perhaps it is just one more nail in the coffin for hunting. I don't know.

The DEC began abrogating their responsibilities to the Citizens Task Force, and loved the way that spreading responsibility around worked for them. I guess that now they have decided to expand that philosophy. So now when things are screwed up, well .... You asked for it. Nobody wanted to pay attention to the CTF fiasco before, well now we have CTF+ and ignoring it is no longer an option.

The problem is that none of the answers that you get on this site have any legal authority behind them. Game cops and judges are not going to be impressed with a remark about how you "heard it on the huntingny.com forum .... lol. If you are expecting any of these scenarios to actually happen, you should be e-mailing the regional DEC headquarters. I say "e-mailing", because I think there is some value in receiving a written response rather than a phone response.

Ok, here is what they say on the DEC internet site. Question: How far off the highway must I be before I can discharge my firearm, crossbow or longbow? Answer: The Environmental Conservation Law prohibits you from discharging the firearm, crossbow or longbow in such a manner that the arrow, bolt, bullet or load of shot passes over any portion of the highway, which may include maintained portions including the shoulder, drainage ditches, etc. I am interpreting that to mean that when fired, your muzzle cannot be within that definition of the highway since doing so would cause the shot to pass over that portion of the highway that they have defined. What is really purposely confusing is the word "may". I don't understand why they put that in there. So, they are not defining it as "the highway and all legal right-of-way property". They are defining it only as "maintained portions including the shoulder, drainage ditches, etc." ....... And who the hell knows what is being implied with the etc. slapped on the end?... lol.

It all just shows you how dedicated, focused, and creative these anti-hunting whackos are. They will use every trick in the book and are constantly coming at us with everything they've got. We on the other hand simply argue amongst ourselves, fail to support our own advocacy organizations, and continue to under-estimate the effectiveness of these kinds of tactics.

That is some awful good shooting, and with a broadhead too. Very impressive.

The point is that if you have a serious population problem, you don't try to solve it using the least effective season available. A couple of doe days during gun season would do a whole lot more than the two weeks of antlerless bow season. To choose the lesser efficient season, raises huge questions about the seriousness of the population problem, or the credibility of what is truly the goal.

Ruger American in .270 caliber