Doc

Who knows? ...... Maybe they have done me a favor with their stupidity. Maybe this year I will have those two weeks to get those last minute chores done around the house and get a chance to do a bit of squirrel hunting for a change.

Absolutely! There is no doubt in my mind that that is what they have in mind. They have been pushing putting guns in bow season. To a limited extent they already have. And now they are going to force what they have wanted for years..... an early muzzleloading season. It's just that they have feel a need to come up with some extravagant plan to do it. There is nothing else that makes sense. That is why I call it a war on bowhunters. As far as the muzzleloader hunters are concerned, they should be all for this stuff, because the end result will be a brand new early muzzleloader season, which is the DEC plan from the get-go.

Things do seem to be getting pretty whacky. But I also wonder if the weirdness is getting overblown a bit by the constant bombardment from all the electronic sources that we are all wrapped into. Today a murder that happens on the other side of the globe is being given wall to wall coverage. Not that many years ago, such things would not even be mentioned, even in the newspapers.

I just put out my first cam yesterday afternoon, and that may be the only one I will be putting out. Most of my hunting is done on state land, and I really don't dare put any cameras over there. I did it once and it cost me a $200 camera when it got stolen. I may set some more out down in the driveway or the thicket out front, but that usually results in the same deer being photographed over and over. Besides, I have a new Canon Rebel DSLR that needs to be played with. Maybe something that I can post will come from experimenting with that. But to answer your question .... I do agree that there seems to be a lot less posting of trail-cam pics this year. I'm not sure what that is indicating if anything. All I know is that every picture that Eddie posts is one more excuse gone for not getting a monster buck this year .... Lol.

Anyone who truly is interested in see the deer population reduced should be absolutely livid that the attempt to do so is being squandered on the most ineffective season available with no similar acts happening during the gun season. It is hard to take this as a serious population reduction activity when it is relying only on bowhunters and muzzleloader hunters for handling the task.

Check out any corn fields that are surrounded by a good stretch of woods. Pay particular attention to the corners away from any roads. Look for flattened down corn stalks and bear scat. If you find all that, set your camera there. I ran into exactly that scenario while bow hunting in PA back in the 80's. There was no doubt in my mind that that area would have yielded an opportunity at a shot at a bear. There was even a well defined trail coming out of the woods and into the field that had been beaten down by daily visits from the bear. Sure enough my hunting partner saw a bear following that route into the field while he deer hunted. Unfortunately bear season was not open. Anyway, the thought that I am having is to let the farmer do the baiting for you....lol. Bears seem to love that corn.

Ha-ha.... I see all this BS as adding another 36 pages to this thread. There is a lot of items in the "Comments and Response" section that need to be examined and commented on. First of all is the response that indicates that we all got exactly what we asked for. Specifically: "Then, in the 2010 Deer Hunter Survey, 55% of hunters identified that, where needed, an antlerless-only portion of the bow and muzzleloader seasons was a good idea, while only 28% believed it was a bad idea. The survey found similar support for the concept among bowhunters and gun hunters." Now look, I really feel bad about flat out calling them liars, but let's just say that it truly stretches all bounds of credibility to think for a moment the bolded text above is anything short of a lie. Seriously, is there anyone who really believes that bowhunters ever supported this idea with anything close to a 55% to 28% majority, or any kind of majority at all. Look, I may not be the sharpest tack in the box, but it truly is insulting to even try to push that lie past anyone. Also, all these survey results that are being thrown around here seem to indicate that no one should really be surprised that this antlerless only deal is limited to bowhunters and muzzleloader hunters only instead of the more effective regular gun season. Obviously when all hunters are lumped together, the majority percentages (gun hunters) would of course prefer that the minority gets it stuck to them. Why would the results come out any different. They knew that when they asked the survey questions. This does show that surveys can and are rigged to come out with the results that they wanted in the first place.

Yes, if bow and muzzleloader season have such a huge impact on deer herds, as apparently the DEC believes, you are absolutely correct. Those seasons logically should be buck only regardless of what season it is in order to preserve and grow the herd in that low deer density area. But then you are assuming that there is some level of consistency and logic being applied.

I have both a .22 Hornet and a .223 . There is quite a difference between the two in terms of ballistics and energy. I would have to ask you what are the absolute maximum distances you think you will ever be shooting at a coyote or other similar critter either where you are currently hunting or any other places that you envision hunting. let that be your guide as to caliber selection. With a .223 on coyotes you will never find yourself under-gunned. I will say this.... The only reason I have a .22 hornet is because it was inherited.

It really has not worked out that way in our area. The buck may initiate the chase, but from that point on the doe leads him on a very random path that truly is designed solely for escape, any way she can, and it doesn't follow any planned out path or even go in a straight line designed for a secret pre-determined rendezvous. It seldom is even a straight line. I have even seen them enter an area and run a few complete circles before heading out in some other random direction. Yes, I have spent a bit over 50 years hunting the same couple hundred acres of hill and valley, so there aren't really a whole lot of activities that go on there that I am not very familiar with. I've watched enough of chases to realize that no two does will ever use the same direction through the woods twice even when running through the same part of the woods. If only the chasing really was all that predictable, hunting would be easy.....lol.

I would say that he's old enough.

I've got to say that those pictures and videos bring back memories of some Ontario Canada canoe and pack in moose hunting trips. The terrain looks exactly the same. Thanks for the great memory jogger and the great views of what looks like some great canoe trips. I loved this whole thread!

You have to do a bit of rooting around, but the price is for a three-pack. Still a damned stupid price for a broadhead, but I'm sure they will not have any problems getting bowhunters to pay it. http://www.southshorearcherysupply.com/german-kinetic-broadheads-p-51081.html

Ha-ha .... Ever hear that saying that "Figures don't lie, but liars figure"? Well, I have a feeling that the DEC has raised that philosophy to an art-form. I have watched the post season reports on the years when the harvest doesn't seem to come out to be what they predicted or indicated prior to the beginning of the season. It never ceases to amaze me all the various excuses that they can concoct for these anomalies. Everything except, "Gee people, it looks like we don't really have all the answers after all". Yes, they have a story for every occasion and will never admit that their processes and procedures are anything short of god-like perfection.

One thing you have to be careful of is not to be too loud when you are swearing at those multi-flora rose bushes when they get ahold of you. The thick areas down our way are packed with those nasty man-traps. The harder you pull, the deeper those thorns bury into you. Too much pink-faced, forehead-vein popping, violent, expletives (not deleted), are definitely going to have an alarming effect on the deer that are hunkered down in such places.

I have to say that I have little interest in that wacky, running through the woods, breeding time of year. Any deer that I have ever gotten at that time of year was just a very lucky encounter that involved no skill whatsoever. In fact on those lucky kills, I probably should have bought a lottery ticket that day. How many deer at that time of year have I watched hundreds of yards away zig-zagging and running flat out nowhere near any trails. If the object were to just see deer that would be alright, but me with my trusty bow really needs a little more of a break than that, and a lot more aspects that are a bit more predictable. So guys can spend all the time they want worrying about how to predict that frantic time of the breeding season, and I likely will have the same success as they do, just counting on some random stroke of luck. Try working on the seeking phase of the rut where daytime buck movement increases and they are still in a bit of a routine. That is the time of the year when I can maybe turn that knowledge into success.

My first bow-killed deer was a buck with 7" spikes. Those "antlers" are mounted on a plaque and are the most prized of all my mounts. Everytime I look at that silly-looking little rack or am asked about it, I am brought back to that day and all the events that surrounded that number one. It's not the rack that I prize, it is the memories of the event and all the hunts that led up to that day of accomplishment. I wonder if I should score that one to see if it measures up ..... lol.

There are 4 basic State Forest classifications (defined below): Reforestation Areas Multiple Use Areas Unique Areas State Nature and Historic Preserves On the following page, they go into a brief description of each classification: http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/7811.html I would not be surprised if each classification has a small book of rules and regulations attached. So yes the real answer to the question of what can or cannot be left behind on each classification probably differs depending on each parcel and what its classification may be. And it would not surprise me if there might even be differences with each classification depending on the specific parcel. When you ask these kinds of questions, it is probably useful to ask them about the specific parcel you intend to use. Note their are also special rules and regulations regarding state park lands.

I would be happy to get the moneyed interests out of the management process, and the DEC seems to be moving to put the moneyed interests in charge of management, or at least with an adequate influence to shape policy and decisions. Those are decisions that the DEC should have within their power. However, I do understand the politics of the DEC. After all their boss is appointed by and beholden to the Governor. I only ask that they don't be so damned blatant about it.

I'm not sure about seeing the sky or what is in the trees when it comes to deer hunting ....lol. In fact pop-ups might even help with "focus". But what does concern me is "tunnel vision". I have been nailed so many times by those deer that forsake the trails and come walking in from behind. Bucks are notorious for this. They tend to travel patterns that run perpendicular to trails so they can scent-check as many different trails as possible. At least that is the pattern they maintain in our area during the seeking phase of the rut. Opening up shooting windows in the front as well as the rear kind of makes all your movements look like highly visible, eye-catching, silhouettes. Does that make them useless? .... heck no. But it is just one limitation that I try to keep in mind. I generally build a pile of natural ground blinds out of existing materials. I use them season after season so they are not some new eye-sore on the landscape to disturb the deer. I always have visibility in a 360 degree fashion with a high wall of brush and debris to get behind regardless of where the deer come from. But this year I will also be using pop-ups too when a new spot suddenly turns up. I need that flexibility.

I don't think there is anyone who wants to see deer munching down future forest before they exist. I think that is a worthy goal to actually want to prevent that. So how on earth does the enlistment of opinions from uneducated laymen ensure that that goal is met. That was the basic flaw of the CTFs. And now they want to expand that flaw. How about the DEC starts putting into practice all those college degrees that we pay so much for and start applying their own so-called expertise instead of enlisting an army of uneducated stakeholders who just happen to have financial interests as their "stakes". How about some good changes that make sense, changes that improve deer population estimates and scientific estimates of habitat changes and the real impacts of the herd on that habitat. Perhaps it is time to move the deer management out of the world of opinion and into the world of actual science that these guys and gals have been schooled in.

These how-to articles are really decent things to read. But bear in mind that no one that I ever heard of has all the answers. And if deer hunting anywhere could be boiled down to 5 suggestions, we would all be dragging home some great deer every time out. On the other hand, going over 5 of the deer hunting basics never did hurt anyone even those that think they know all there is to know about hunting deer.....lol.

It all really means that you can rationalize and make any statistic come out the way you want it to by whatever twisted logic that you want to apply to make the results come out whatever you want them to.

Ha-ha-ha .... your buddy is just like most hunters. Most of us have a particular bias, and will make all kinds of silly claims in defense of our favorite caliber. Nothing unusual about that. Caliber, cartridge, make, model, of the best deer load and rifle will fill many pages of replies on a hunting forum. We all like our own choices .... right or wrong.

I would add one more thing to the list and that is this incessant obsession with antlers as being the only measure of success. We have newbie hunters being sent afield all schooled up with unreasonable expectations from Saturday morning TV as to what are the minimum requirements to declare a hunting experience a success. We have devised a scoring system of horn measurement to define failure and frustration and packaged it as the only bonafide way to measure a hunters prowess and enjoyment of the hunt. I can't help but wonder how many of our diminishing numbers are gone because of this kind of nonsense ...... Hunters that now believe that a lack of harvest of a book buck means complete failure as a hunter and complete failure of hunting as a satisfying and worthwhile experience and endeavor. I also have to wonder how much of this constantly growing and ever-strangulating new regulations and restrictions are because of this same manufactured mentality and force-fed idea that the only successful hunt is one that ends with a certain "minimum score".