Doc

There is something that is happening across the state that I think not everyone stops to think about. Since the 40s and 50s, agriculture has contracted onto the more productive and larger and flatter properties. A lot of the more marginal land has not been farmed for decades. The small family farms are nearly gone, and a ton of land has been abandoned as farm land returns to mature woods and an out-of-reach over-story develops. At first these abandoned farm lands were great for the deer population explosion, as the transitional lands provided some of the hottest browse and cover that you could ever want. I began hunting right at the perfect point of that evolution of the lands into ideal deer hunting lands. Nice open fields with brush-lots scattered around offered perfect food and cover. Well it's been a bunch of years since all of that great hunting and the perfect habitat, and fields are disappearing and turning to mature woods. For me the number is about 55 years of actual deer hunting, so I have seen lots of changes. So when I look back decades and recall the deer activity, I have to note that things have definitely tightened up considerably. Sometimes it kind of freaks me out a bit when I stop in the middle of a group of young trees on top of my hill and recall how that used to be a large wide open field where you could look from one end to the other .... lol. Another important change is that I have found that I have had to revise tactics completely from those that I used back in the glory days to a style of hunting suitable for the spread-out, more random patterns of mature woods. So there is an evolution of habitat that changes what we should be expecting to see and our hunting techniques have to reflect that. There's still a pile of deer around but throughout my hunting life, there has been a gradual unstable downward trend, and had I not been flexible in my tactics, things would appear to be pretty bleak out there. So the perception of good and bad seasons have to be set in the right perspective along with the background of those making those assessments.

I was simply describing the way that I handle abiding by legal quitting time when all of a sudden I am confronted with a, "seems a little fishy there boss" comment, and apparently I am lying because for some reason I must be talking about getting out of a tree stand which I have said I never use anymore .... lol. And by the way it was not anecdotal evidence of anything, just a simple statement of fact that I start packing up before quitting time and leave my stand at sunset done with the hunt. I thought the whole reaction to what I said was a bit strange, uncalled for and contrived and still do. As far as appreciation of insight and differing points of view, don't mistake my defense of my honesty and integrity as belittling anyone's points of view on legitimate topics.

You know, this is a valuable time of the year. The deer are still in their super survival mode, and we have a written record of deer escape tactics documented in the snow. It's a great time to be out there learning and taking notes for the next gun season. Ha-ha .... This comment is completely off topic, and has nothing to do with "reasons for a bad gun season", but maybe if more people used this time of year for some intensive scouting, there wouldn't be quite so many bad seasons to find reasons for.

Don't bury your head in the sand. Anti-hunters organizations are making headway. It took a bear mauling to get New Jersey to undo the bear season ban that antis pushed for and eventually passed. And it looks like California will never undo their Mountain lion hunting ban. And each one of the "at risk" headlines represents a long and costly fight that hunting advocacy groups have to spend their money on in a fight to maintain the hunting rights that we do have, and not always a successful fight. I also believe that a lot of the reason for hunter numbers being in decline is the cultural challenges that these groups have successfully mounted. So the most dangerous thing that we can do is to belittle the gains that these people have made and continue to make. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. But for gosh sake don't turn your back on them with false confidence.

Ha-ha..... $400 - $600 is chicken feed compared to what guys are willing to spend to get a deer these days. Heck that's the price of a cheap bow these days. There really is no limit as to what hunters will spend to get the best buck money can buy.

I have to say that the pressure during gun season is nothing compared to years ago.......especially after opening weekend. Things get real quiet. And yet the damage is done. The deer are totally spooked and into super survival mode, And there are just enough guys around to keep reminding them of those two ugly opening days ..... lol. One change that I have noticed since we went to Saturday openers is that now we do have two big opening days (Saturday & Sunday) compared to only one biggie when we had only the Monday opener. The time when I have seen the greatest increase in pressure in recent years is the one time when you want it the least .... Bow season.

Ha-ha.... There is no fight here, I'm just not going to sit here and let someone call me a liar without pushing back a little.

And I would like to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny but it probably will never happen. This past election showed me a lot about hunters and gun owners in terms of their political dedication and resolve. Nobody is advocating placating anyone, but it is useful to recognize that hunters don't exist in a vacuum and before we go charging across the landscape acting like we are some kind of majority force here, a little consideration of how the public perceives us and our activities might be a prudent way to conduct ourselves.

The fact is that I had no idea you were talking about tree stands until you said so. Further, I have to wonder why you were so fast to jump on the "gotcha" tactics. You seemed to go off half-cocked on what you thought was the highlight of your day. Well, you got caught up in your eagerness to call me a liar and made a fool of yourself. I would say I'm sorry that that happened, but none of it was of my doing. Seems like even after I laid out the whole conversation right in front of you, you still think there was something there that I should admit was wrong. Either you can't read, or you won't read, or you are just pissed off that you didn't catch me in a lie, but you are starting to get ridiculous now and I am getting pretty weary of all of your nonsense. I will simply repeat that next time you try to call someone a liar, check your facts and don't make dumb assumptions. That is the most useful thing that I can end this conversation with.

A few minutes with Google answers this question. http://www.guns.com/2014/10/30/anti-hunting-groups-target-maine-bear-laws/ https://firstforhunters.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/l-671-puts-nebraskas-hunting-heritage-at-risk/ http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/articles/3706-bill-to-end-nebraska-mountain-lion-season-advances#sthash.DepNsyAI.dpbs http://bigcatrescue.org/20-yrs-after-californias-prop-117-the-fight-isnt-over/ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0616_030616_tvbearhunting_2.html

Since you seem intent on calling me a liar, let me refresh your mind on how this conversation went instead of you talking about circles and such: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doc: Not only do I quit at the appropriate time, but even before that time I begin to pack up my gear so that when sunset comes I'm out of my stand and heading home. Phade: How do you get out of your stand. Pretty sure you have stated you dont hunt from stands and haven't for a long while. Seems a little fishy there boss. Doc: Well, what can I say ....... you thought wrong. Phade: Pretty sure you've stated several times in the past few months you've been out of the trees and evolved into a ground hunter. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do hunt from stands and I have been out of the trees for quite a few years. You were wrong. I told you so. So where's the talking in circles. You were looking for the big gotcha, and made a stupid assumption. I straightened you out. So what's your problem. You desperately wanted to prove me a liar and made a fool of yourself in the process. That is not a problem of my making. Next time you try to call someone a liar, check your facts and don't make dumb assumptions.

One thing is for sure, I am not afraid of a blaze orange law. I can imagine a lot of slippery-slope scenarios most of which are completely ridiculous and fictitious. There is always some danger in randomly entering into that kind of mentality too. But I do choose my fights, and this one doesn't sit real high on my priorities. Anyway, I suppose there is something to be said for the Darwin style removal of idiots to improve the species ..... lol.

No it doesn't work with hunting. It is a downward decline and we have seen it. A miracle would be nice, but I really don't see one coming. Contests are just another symptom of what is hunting has become. Simple hunting (man vs. critter) is not enough anymore. We have to supplement the experience with man vs. man competition now to get the satisfactions from the activity. Something has been lost or devalued in hunting and yes without some miracle to turn around attitudes and out-of-scale expectations we will continue to see the activity continue to lose popularity and acceptance.

I don't think there is a way back. The evolution of hunting has many drivers and most of them are a result of evolving culture. We live in an age of instant gratification, and expectations that are media driven. We have not gotten where we are for random unknown reasons, and those reasons truly are irreversible.

"Weekend Warrior" ...... funny term with a whole lot of different meanings, most of which have nothing to do with hunting.

In general, I am not real big on any kinds of hunting competitions......period. That is not any part of why I hunt. And I do believe that non hunters, right or wrong, generally have an equally dim view of them. It's not a real big deal with me, but with hunting under constant attack and some very real advances scored by anti-hunter groups I do become a little concerned about how we are perceived. But all those negative attitudes may be blunted a bit depending on where you are. I watched on TV last night the annual crow problem in Rochester, where I would guess attitudes about crow contests might be different than other places .... ha-ha. They showed pictures of crow crap covering sidewalks and park benches. It happens every year, and the city has to hire some special crow removal outfits to drive them off with loud noises (explosions) and lasers and such ....lol. In problem areas where the damage and difficulties are demonstrable to the general public, perhaps they serve a purpose and in terms of negative PR, perhaps the hunters don't take quite as bad a hit.

Have you ever noticed all the pictures that I have posted of my "Ground stands". There has to be at least a dozen of them posted around the forum. One set of stand pictures is of my favorite gun stand. Damn some of you guys have been totally conditioned to believe that when someone says they got out of their stand that they have to be talking about tree stands. Come-on...... You know better. I'm sorry I made you waste all that time researching my posts, but I assumed you realized that there are such things as ground stands. This one is my favorite gun stand. It is about as close to a guaranteed stand as you can get for opening day. Typical pop-up stand .... pretty good bow spot. Another great spot for bow. Another permanent ground stand. ........And so on and so forth. So when I say I am getting out of my stand, I am not saying I am getting out of my tree-stand. I have no idea why anyone would automatically try to make that connection. Sorry for the confusion, but it really wasn't me that caused it.

Well see we are struggling with a term that has no official definition. The kinds of people you are describing are basically what I call "slob hunters" who can show up at any time of the week. Not just on weekends. I think Mike had the best description of a "weekend warrior" when he described them as casual and inexperienced. But I suppose with a term like this your definition is as good as anybody's. When you think about it, it is a stupid meaningless term. Go with the "slob hunter" everybody knows what your talking about with that one .....lol.

I guess if something is unintentional it is unintentional and that does not say that it is ok or excused by the cop that stops you or any other thing that you may pretending that I am saying. I would hope that you understand the difference between willfully intending to do something wrong and unintentionally doing so. Yes, I am sure that you really do see the difference....lol.

You are certainly free to believe whatever you need to.

Amen brother. Now if you want to start a thread where that is applicable, help yourself. I don't want to sideline this thread any further.

Ha-ha .... well that's very nice, but I prefer to keep my eyes on the road and those maniacs that are coming at me....lol. And yes, my speed will vary a few miles per hour occasionally. But you can believe me when I say (and you seemed not to believe) that when I vary from the exact speed limit, it is not intentional, where ignoring legal hunting hours is a conscious decision. And that is what makes the comparison that this thread is all about, bogus.

Well, this is heading for a philosophical discussion that is straying a bit from the original topic. So I will simply say that I have a respect for our legal system, warts and all. I also hope that I am not in the minority.

Yeah, that's probably what most people are talking about when they use the term "weekend warrior". It is usually not meant as a term of endearment ..... lol. I think those that use that term haven't figured out that most people use hunting as recreation. These so-called weekend warriors have recognized that they will still eat if they don't devote their lives to deer hunting. They don't treat it like their occupation and likely don't give a damn about impressing anyone. The thing is that they are hunters too just like any of us. I've found that many times these are much more pleasant guys to hang around with and hunt with.

It's got nothing to do with St.Peter or hell. You either respect the law or you don't. Simple as that.