Doc

Hey ..... Thanks for the permission. To me the Blaze Orange debate is an important one and is worthy of discussion.

Only 8 pages??? Boy! you guys are getting soft.

For some reason we always want to believe that just because somebody participates in things like hunting, that they are all up-standing wonderful people. Well, here is just another indication that hunters represent the same cross-section of people that any other group does. And yes, we have our fair share of wackos too. It's something to stay aware of when dealing with other hunters. People have shot each other, on purpose, over hunting issues. It's unfortunate, but simply the way some people are. We have not yet figured out how to eliminate the weirdos from our ranks and probably never will.

Actually what is not reflected in these stats is the comparative percentages of those that wear blaze orange vs. those that do not. that overwhelming percentage of accidents involving those that are not using blaze orange is coming from a minority percentage of hunters, which makes them even more significant. As to the argument as to whether blaze orange should be mandatory, I will leave that to others to debate. Like I said earlier, it would not break my heart if it became law, because like so many have already concluded, wearing blaze orange during a firearms deer season is pretty much the only sane thing to be doing. However, do not think that the only victim in an accident are those that recklessly hit the deer woods trying their best not to be seen by fellow hunters, or those that think they are proving some kind of point about their "Libertarian" attitudes. There are families and friends left behind that have to go through the grieving process and frequently financial hardships when the breadwinner is suddenly removed from the family. Also, the next time you draw a bead on a deer, take a look at the jumble of downed logs, trees and brush and ask yourself if you are 100% certain that tucked back in there, there isn't some fool hunkered down there in his camo suit. Don't see anyone ....right? Well that's because we have some pretty good camo these days and it does what it's supposed to do. But then too, think what your life would be like if as you pulled the trigger you found out he was there by the scream when he was hit. I wouldn't want to be thrust into that scenario because some hard-head is out there demonstrating his "rights".

Just a compilation of stats (accidents vs. blaze orange usage). You make of them whatever you want. some are relevant, some are not. But for those that want to apply a bit of logic and reasoning, they do tell the story that not using blaze orange definitely puts you in the wrong column.

Ha-ha ..... best trophy money can buy. Hey ..... some people think that's what hunting is all about. For them it's all about ego. They spend their time looking for peer acceptance and that's all hunting is to them.

I wonder if the day will come when we all stop getting so wacked out when people decide not to listen to our magical words of wisdom as to how people must hunt. I am one of those that tries not to let hunting become some kind of mind-bending torture that chases after every word uttered by the TV and magazine "experts". I do not have to hunt to feed my family or myself. It is not my job. If I don't harvest the biggest deer and impress all my buddies with what I do get, my life is not ruined and I don't feel like the worlds biggest failure. So, I guess if my car is low on gas, I'll probably fill it up without having it ruin my day. And if I feel like having bacon and eggs at a restaurant before hunting, I probably won't return home in disgust feeling like the whole day of hunting has been completely trashed. Hell, I may even drag some of that stinky food along to my stand.....lol. If somehow that attitude equates to being a slob-hunter in some minds, then as far as I am concerned the problem is their minds and the fact that they have let something that in this day and age should be a relaxing pastime become perverted into some sort of do-or-die activity.

Data from NYS between 1989 and 1995 Reason for accident: Mistaken for game 5% wore B/O 94% did not 1% unknown Reason for accident: Out of sight 37% wore B/O 58% did not 5% unknown Reason for accident: In Line of Fire 30% wore B/O 62% did not 8% unknown Reason for accident: unintentional discharge 28% wore B/O 69% did not 3% unknown Reason for accident: struck by ricochet 35% wore B/O 62% did not 3% unknown Reason for accident: Other/ Unknown 44% wore B/O 66% did not 0% unknown Total of all reasons 24% wore B/O 73% did not 3% unknown Obviously, blaze orange is not a magic bullet that eliminates all hunting accidents. However, the numbers do show that the use of blaze orange does have a significant impact on safety.

This is one of those rare occasions where I agree with Bubba .... lol. Everytime our second amendment rights are challenged, we hear all this bravado and lip service about how the gun owners are all going to stage this massive riot or huge uprising. Seriously? ... Didn't anyone pay any attention to this past election. Yes we did ok on the local levels, but anything that had any ties to NYC went very bad for us. We should have been able to give Cuomo the boot, but we really are a paper tiger........ A lot of mouth, but very little backbone and action. Oh, we do stage a very impressive bunch of demonstrations, but when it comes to a simple act of casting votes, I'm afraid that the Tuesday line-up of TV programming takes a higher priority.

Kind of looks like some hunters under-shorts. I wouldn't mess with that one.

That does take a second look to sort out whose head belongs to who at first glance.....lol.

It's true, at this time in the season, that is a very effective way of seeing those deer that are into the super-survival mode. I am not a real big "drive-guy", but no one can argue the effectiveness of the technique when the deer are locked down.

The idiots that I have seen on some very pressure state land that were hiding in the woods in full camo were not visible until I was practically on top of them, and they stepped out or waved their hand. That's not a big surprise because that is the purpose of camouflage. Now you can parrot back all the nifty sounding slogans that you want regarding "knowing what's behind or in front of any deer that you are shooting at", but if you have one of these morons somewhere in the background, I defy you to honestly say with a straight face that you know that that area is clear of hunters. That is absolute BS to put it bluntly. Unless you are hunting in gravel pit or a totally cleared out shooting range with an earthen backstop, you cannot guarantee that there is not some goof back in there dressed in camo. And yet I have actually seen these guys out there trying to prove that nobody is going to tell them how to dress when hunting.

Do you lock your doors when you leave the house? Are any of your firearms designated as a "go to" home defense weapon. I mentioned before that when I was a kid, we didn't even have locks on the doors. I live within 1/4 mile of where I was back then. I have lots of locks, deadbolts, etc., and a 12 gauge pump shotgun lives right above the bed. Yes, we live in the sticks, and we have decent neighbors and all that. But burglaries and home invasions are not completely unheard of out here anymore. It's not a case of living in fear, as much as it is simply a realization that times have changed, and a certain level of reality does have to be applied no matter where you live. Where I live the only law enforcement protection available is a good half hour minimum away (at least!). I am the first and last line of defense when it comes to home security. It's a whole different world today, and it's not all just a made up scenario of the media.

One thing is for sure. Ethics decisions have an awful lot to do with location (local hunting methods), parental guidance, and often they vary by generation. When I grew up, almost every kid around ran traplines. I was pretty good at it, but I have yet to eat muskrat, coon, possum, skunk, beaver, mink or fox. Fact is that I don't even know anyone who ever did. I never had any twinges of conscience or ethical wrestling matches because I threw away all that meat or used it for bait. The only problem I have with limiting hunting to only the "food source" justification is the idea that that standard, if widely accepted, could have some far-reaching effects if it ever found it's way into law.

So, what is the traditional way of splitting up the meat when there is that many people involved. Does everybody get together an do the butchering and then split up the meat by the pound? I never participated in more than a 2-man drive (1 stander-1 driver).

You either have the wind right or you don't. You can't buy a good wind direction from Gander Mountain. Is it sloppy hunting to rely on a good solid understanding of where the deer will be coming from and understanding wind currents enough to know when the wind will not go to them, rather than relying on purchased products and hyped procedures to take care of all that pesky stuff for you? We all do what we think works best for us. There's nothing sloppy or not sloppy about it. And there's nothing in either scenario that labels a hunter a slob. That comment was way out of line.

I think we are forgetting the basic goals of the antlerless deer permit system. I think if you ask the DEC, they'll tell you that it is for herd management, not for filling freezers .... lol. So, a permit issued is intended to be a permit filled, regardless of who or how many hunters fill them. I believe that is what the permit sign-overs are all about, and even the deer donation program. Everything is focused on deer harvest and attempted herd management, and that applies whether the hunting area is public or private. As far as the notion that food gathering is the only reason for hunting, I really don't completely agree with that. I have spent some time in my younger years hunting woodchucks, but never was able to get myself to eat one. But the farmers who used to slam their equipment over those holes sure did thank me. I also do some varmint hunting, but am not looking forward to a fox rump roast. And I used to shoot rats at the dump ...... no meal for me there. I don't know how many people enjoy a nice stuffed Thanksgiving crow. Hunting has many reasons for justification, and food gathering is only one of them.

Well oh mystic mind-reader, it's time for you to go in and give your powers a tune-up. I happened to have been talking about what is referred to as a canned hunt. Is that what you are really running. Maybe that's why you seem to always be on the defensive even regarding replies that have nothing to do with you. For crying out loud, lighten up a bit. Like I said not everything is about you and little deer zoo.

If it were mandatory, I probably wouldn't lose any sleep over it. No, I am not going to start a campaign to pass laws regarding it, but I am of the opinion that it is absolutely stupid to be out in the woods without plenty of orange on. I am also of the opinion that there are way too many people without the intelligence to come to that opinion on their own (I've seem them). But I have to say that we are buried in laws already to the point where we are all offenders, often without even knowing it. Enough is enough! Now as to making one safety feature into law at the expense of backing off on another, I can't say that I am in favor of that. Frankly I think the shooting hours are sensible, and adequate. I know there are those that disagree, but I have seen plenty of weather conditions, and forest over-story densities that make even the present rules a bit marginal. My opinion ...... leave it all alone and simply abide by the rules as they exist with a little common sense thrown in.

Damn Gomer, everything is not about you and your little deer zoo. I simply gave one example of something that people call hunting that I really don't want to be associated with, and you get all butt-hurt. As far as all the other stuff that you listed, how about letting me make up my own mind as to how I feel about them rather than having you tell me my opinion.

Italian necktie

Actually I am one of those that complains about the reduced resources of the DEC and their law enforcement branch in particular. That is why I wonder why this guy is wasting time checking out the same one place and the same hunters multiple times. It makes absolutely no sense, and it sure appears that he is not performing his duties in an efficient way ........ unless there is more to the story than what we are hearing.

Why do I care about what kinds of practices travel under the name of hunting? It doesn't effect me does it? Well, as a matter of fact, it does. Unfortunately, society paints us all with the same brush. During my entire life, hunting has been an activity that I have been closely identified with. When I say I am a hunter, or people mention that I was a hunter after I am gone, I don't want images to pop into people's heads of some guy leaning against a fence settling the crosshairs on some critter eating out of a feeding trough. There are also a whole lot of other hunting practices that I don't want hunting to be associated with. So yes, I am opinionated, and vocal about those things that I do not want anyone to even think that I participate in. And yes, I do add those feelings to what I consider "personal ethics".

It's hard to believe that when I was a kid, we never had locks on our house doors. There was no need. Things sure have changed.